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Old 01-24-2021, 04:50 PM   #1
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Name: Cece
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Future full timer?

Hi, Iím Carol, or sometimes Cece. Iíve been lurking and reading around the forum for awhile, and figured it was time to introduce myself. Retirement is coming in spring of Ď22, so in March or April Iíve decided to order my Scamp 19í fifth wheel.

Just typing that gave me butterflies in my stomach! But I have been hanging around town way, way too long and Iím ready to see mountains again, (to quote Bilbo Baggins). I will probably go back to reading and lurking, since I donít have much to contribute to the conversations yet. But I will ask one question, just to start things off: Tacoma or Ranger?
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Old 01-24-2021, 07:07 PM   #2
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Trailer: '04 Scamp 19D, TV:Tacoma 4.0L 4door, SB
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I have been towing mine with a Tacoma since spring 2013 an put about 55k miles on the Scamp and 150k miles on the Tacoma since then. It is working out great. Some people used to say that the SMC (glass reinforced Sheet Molding Compound) bed is no good, but it is as tough as any metal bed and will never rust. I mounted the hitch rails myself.



I am glad there are more Scamp 19 members here. Good luck with yours. When is it going to be ready for you?



There are people here who have experience with the Ranger and will chime in. In 2012/2013 the Ranger was not available. Only Tacoma or Frontier, in that category.
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Old 01-24-2021, 07:21 PM   #3
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I wonít be ordering it until March or April, and I have read here and other forums that wait time is actually a year. I suppose I could hunt a used one, but they are hard to find in the Midwest, and they sell so quickly. So new it is. Iíll just have to eat more ramen.

Good to hear about the bed on the Tacoma. Iím leaning in that direction, but that was a concern.

Glad to hear youíre enjoying your 19í Scamp. I alway go for simple and dependable, which is why I am going for a fiberglass towable.
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Old 01-24-2021, 08:17 PM   #4
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Missouri
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If Ford puts the 2.7L 6cyl Ecoboost in the 2021 Ranger, that would probably be my choice.

We currently tow a 2017 Scamp 16 Deluxe with a 2016 F-150 2.7L Ecoboost. We generally get 20+ mpg towing and 27 mpg without the trailer.

From the research that I've done, the best tow vehicles use either a turbocharged engine (i.e. Ecoboost) or a diesel engine ... regardless of manufacturer brand & model.

That's because turbo s and diesels both have high torque at low RPM and that's really what you need in any tow vehicle. Perhaps even better would be a turbo-diesel.

Just food for thought ...

Good luck with your decision!

Ray
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Old 01-24-2021, 09:37 PM   #5
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Thanks Ray. I never understood what an eco boost was before, but I started watching truck comparison videos and got some education. You are getting some great mileage!
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Old 01-25-2021, 07:15 AM   #6
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Glad to help!

If you search (Google, Bing, etc.) for "towing + torque + horsepower" , you'll likely come up with quite a few interesting articles.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-...sus-torque.htm

What I think I've learned is/was:

"Torque" is the most important metric for getting a rig moving and towing at a steady speed (i.e. level ground, uphill, or into a headwind).

"Horsepower" is the most important metric for accelerating (i.e. passing on a 2-lane road or accelerating to merge into traffic from an on-ramp)

Best of luck on your decisions and travels!

Ray
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Old 01-25-2021, 09:02 AM   #7
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I would also consider the Chevy Colorado which offers an optional diesel engine and decent payload capacity . Many tow the Escape 5.0TA with the Chevy Colorado and with great success.
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Old 01-25-2021, 09:15 AM   #8
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So, I know diesel is more expensive ,but does it offer better MPGs? Never really considered a diesel engine before, mostly because of the smell. But I have a year to get schooled. And unlike fiberglass trailers, pickups are easy to find around here.
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Old 01-25-2021, 09:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceceoh View Post
So, I know diesel is more expensive ,but does it offer better MPGs? Never really considered a diesel engine before, mostly because of the smell. But I have a year to get schooled. And unlike fiberglass trailers, pickups are easy to find around here.
Diesel equipped vehicles usually come with a higher initial cost
The diesel engine gives better MPGs especially when towing
Modern diesels are much quieter than there predecessors
There power / torque is developed at lower RPMs
The Chevy Colorado is also available with a gasoline engine

* I do not own a Chevy Colorado so I am parroting what others have said but the Colorado reviews have been mainly positive *
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Old 01-25-2021, 10:13 AM   #10
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Diesels also have significantly higher maintenance costs as well as up-front costs. They are justified if you are pulling heavy loads a lot of the time. A Scamp 19 is not exactly a heavy load, and you won’t be pulling it every day. (The Escape fifth wheel is a larger trailer.)

In this situation I’ll have to tentatively vote for the Ranger. The Tacoma has the better reliability, but it’s seriously outdated and fuel-thirsty. The Ranger’s turbo-four has the reserve power to move the S19’s large frontal area, but it won’t punish you at the pump in everyday, unhitched driving. It would be a tough call for me, because reliability ranks pretty high on my list of vehicle attributes, but I just can’t get excited about the Tacoma.

Personally, I might look for a low mileage used Frontier, although it’s low frontal area restriction makes the S19 an iffy proposition. It’s pretty fuel-thirsty, too, but they can be had for quite a bit less than a Ranger or Tacoma, leaving room in the budget for gas. Reliability is good. Crash ratings not so good. Back seat is tiny.

A used F150 2.7EB is another possibility I might consider. Good fuel economy, plentiful, and a better ride than the mid-sized trucks. Large to park if you opt for the four-door version.

Another consideration (since you mention full-timing) is storage. The S19 is limited on storage, and you can’t put much in the truck bed when towing a fifth wheel style camper. Where will you carry your barbecue grill, chairs, bicycles, generator and fuel, perhaps?...

Tough decisions.
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Old 01-25-2021, 10:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceceoh View Post
So, I know diesel is more expensive ,but does it offer better MPGs? Never really considered a diesel engine before, mostly because of the smell. But I have a year to get schooled. And unlike fiberglass trailers, pickups are easy to find around here.
I don't like to recommend (or bash) any brands of tow vehicles or trailers.

I just wanted to pass on some general ideas about the torque/horsepower characteristics of tow vehicles and suggest that, if you chose the Ranger, that I might prefer the 2.7L 6cyl Ecoboost engine. Since it would be a new engine offering in 2021, I'd want to do a little additional research.

My son has an acreage (including several horses) and drives diesel vehicles (VW Jetta sedan & wagon, RAM pickup, Ford F-250 diesel) but, he is very particular about the kind of diesel engine (Cummins) that he wants in his vehicles. I have recently been using turbos for towing and everyday driver vehicles. I think that both of us are relatively happy with our choices.

Perhaps as important as (or maybe even more important?) the initial engine cost and fuel economy, you might want to think about the actual towing experience?

Our 2.7L 6cyl Ecoboost rarely upshifts or downshifts while towing. When more power is needed for an uphill grade, the turbochargers simply work a little bit harder (probably burning a little additional fuel to get the extra needed power) and the truck stays in the same highway gear.

When we are towing on level ground and without a major headwind, we don't seem to engage the turbochargers very much ... hence better mpg.

By contrast, if you were to get too small a turbo-charged engine in your tow vehicle, you might be using the turbochargers far more often and your fuel economy might be a little worse? (The only available engine choice in the Ranger for the last couple of years has been the 2.3L 4cyl Ecoboost. While that may be a really great choice for some trailers, I've wondered how fuel economy (etc.) might be affected by heavier trailers.

We previously towed a minimalist/lightweight Scamp 13 with a 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L 4cyl Ecoboost and we did just fine. Coming back from California, we went up and over Donner Pass with the cruise control set on 60 MPH and maintained that speed without much trouble (remember that turbos may do better at mountainous altitudes.) The fuel economy meter on the dash of the Escape was reporting much worse mpg going up the mountain but, the mpg rebounded on the way back down.

For towing, without lots of actual real-world experience to back it up, I've always supposed that I would prefer the additional power strokes of a 6cyl over a 4cyl engine to tow heavier trailers.

I'd hope that other folks might weigh in with more real world experiences.

FWIW - Anything that I've said above could be wrong ... YMMV!

Again, best of luck to you with your choices and future adventures!

Ray
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Old 01-25-2021, 01:32 PM   #12
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Name: Cece
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This is giving me lots of great information and food for thought. Donít want to get lost in the weeds, which can happen when there are so many choices. Cost of upkeep would be important, so that would a definite ďconĒ for me. On the other hand, even turbocharged, would a 4 cylinder with a tow package be able to handle the work long term?
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Old 01-25-2021, 01:59 PM   #13
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Scamp current production - for deluxe - order now for July 2022 completion. May be less time for non-deluxe. Just FYI.
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Old 01-25-2021, 01:59 PM   #14
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I don’t know any specifics on these items but appreciate the replies. I may, or may not, retire in a couple of years. Since “long-timing” is my plan I want a 19 too, only an Escape 19. I have grown quite fond and spoiled by the camper-shell topped bed on my old F-150 for storage. Being kinda (OK, more than kinda) old school, I am not sold on these new fangled turbos and such. I know fuel economy may suffer but give me a solid larger engine. Same for the diesels, and their up-front cost increase should be factored in any pay-back calculation.

A little off topic but many, many years ago when I was living the trailer park life a divorced gentleman moved in the park. He needed something strong to pull his camper and ended up with a 454 equipped Chevy. I enquired why he did not get a diesel and he said the cost difference was ridiculous and he would not live, or drive, enough to pay for the diesel. Also interesting, he and his ex would vacation together once a year. Guess they only had so much interest in each other that a couple of weeks would do.
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Old 01-25-2021, 06:38 PM   #15
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Timber Wolf - It was the Escape fifth wheel that first caught my eye. They look so sleek and classy. But I decided I didn’t want to deal with the hassle and cost of buying one in Canada, so I figured I’d go for a bubblehead Scamp instead. Since who knows when the border will be open again, it’s just as well.

14 month wait for a new Scamp? Maybe by next year the market will be flooded with fiberglass trailers that people decided they no longer need.
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Old 01-25-2021, 09:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceceoh View Post
Timber Wolf - It was the Escape fifth wheel that first caught my eye. They look so sleek and classy. But I decided I didn’t want to deal with the hassle and cost of buying one in Canada, so I figured I’d go for a bubblehead Scamp instead. Since who knows when the border will be open again, it’s just as well.

14 month wait for a new Scamp? Maybe by next year the market will be flooded with fiberglass trailers that people decided they no longer need.
It's not nearly the hassle you think. Escape is delivering trailers throughout the USA all the time. I would not be surprised if they have more customers in the US than they have in Canada.

While tourists cannot cross the border easily, commercial products are crossing the border continuously. Entire industries would be out of business otherwise. About 100,000 commercial trucks cross the Canada/USA border every WEEK.

The other "advantage" to people in the US is the Canadian dollar is lower than the US dollar. So your $$ goes farther (Canadian $ is worth 78 cents US right now).
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Old 01-25-2021, 10:34 PM   #17
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I believe the Scamp 5th* wheel is much lighter than similar Escape. It is also single axle, so fewer tires to buy when it is time.



*) The hitch point is same, above the rear axle, but Scamp uses the 2" ball, not the king pin. Some purists say it is not 5th wheel, but in terms of towing dynamics, it is exactly the same. I would expect that a true 5th wheel hitch is considerably heavier than the Scamp kind. And the bed can still accommodate a lot of stuff, the kind that does not need to stay dry. What needs to stay dry we (just the two of us) load on the spacious back seat of the four door cab.



There is a lot to digest here, but it gets easier with time!
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Old 01-26-2021, 06:45 AM   #18
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Agree about the current Escape 5.0 TA fifth wheel being a significantly larger (and more expensive) trailer. It’s apples and oranges. It’s more commonly towed with a full-sized truck, though a few mid-sized offerings (like the Colorado/Canyon diesels) can do the job.

If you can find one, the older, single axle Escape 5.0 Classic is closer in size and weight to the Scamp, and like the larger 5.0 TA, it has the advantage of a longways loft bed.

Scamp’s loft bed is designed for transverse sleeping, which some find inconvenient for two people. The 19’ standard can be modified for longways sleeping, but the deluxe cannot due to the bath. The deluxe loft is enclosed on 3-1/2 sides, so some people find it confining. Couples with different sleeping patterns may prefer the privacy.
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Old 01-26-2021, 09:30 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ceceoh View Post
ĒSNIPĒ14 month wait for a new Scamp? Maybe by next year the market will be flooded with fiberglass trailers that people decided they no longer need.
One (small) benefit of being on the tail end of the baby boom. Might be some neat stuff coming up for sale cheap.
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Old 01-26-2021, 07:46 PM   #20
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Our F-150 2.7L EB

In keeping with my philosophy of not recommending (or bashing) any types of trailers or tow vehicles, I wouldn't ordinarily talk about our own F-150 tow vehicle.

However, since Jon suggested a used F-150 2.7L EB and Carol remarked on our good MPG, below is at least a partial description of our 2016 F-150 Supercab XLT Sport - 2.7L Ecoboost - 4x2 - 6spd-auto - 3.31 E-locking rear axle - 6.5' bed - and 36gal fuel tank.

I'm not totally sure why our F-150 does so well on MPG. I guess it could be a combination of the 2WD/4x2 (i.e. not 4WD), the 20" aluminum wheels that came with the "Sport Package"(versus the 18" steel wheels), and the 3.31 E-locking "highway rear axle".

As a consideration for a "full-timer", our 36 gallon fuel tank (unavailable in the Ranger) and 20MPG (towing) means that we have roughly a 720 mile towing range.

As a general practice, we fill up just as often as we did with a smaller fuel tank. If the price is good and the facility is clean, whenever we stop for meals or bathroom breaks, we fill up. The 720 mile range just means that we rarely have to worry about running out of fuel. If necessary, we could make it home from just west of Knoxville (Tn) to the KC Metro.

With the "Supercab" and 6.5' bed, our truck still fits in our garage. We like the ability to have some interior space/seats to either bring along some grandkids (or adults) or to store some additional gear inside and out of any potential weather. I suspect that a "Crew cab" truck (4-full-doors) might have required down-sizing to a 5.5' bed or it either might not have fit at all or at least would've been an EXTREMELY TIGHT fit!

The Ford Pro Trailer Backup assist (unavailable in the Ranger for the last couple of years) is nice for both of us but, especially nice for my wife.

The Ford Sync3 system is compatible with both the "Android Auto" and the "Apple Car Play" apps and can show WAZE/Google-Maps navigation on the truck's larger screen and well as providing Spotify and Pandora audio entertainment (which means you might not need a Sirius subscription for cross country travel?)

Although the Ford tow package didn't come with a built-in brake controller, it was very easy to add the compatible Ford brake controller at the Ford dealership.

The built-in 110v outlets are nice as is the power-sliding rear window, and remote start.

IIRC, instead of our 6spd auto transmission, newer Ford trucks may have the 10 speed automatic transmission which may always be able to provide the best towing engine RPM.

Although these features won't apply to towing a 5th wheel trailer, we like the rear camera that will "point down at the ball/hitch" for easier hitching up and we added the hard, folding, 4-panel tonneau cover that stays secure whenever the tailgate is locked.

Sorry to make your head spin even more, Carol!
Attached is a partial picture of the window sticker that was on our F-150.



Ray
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