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Old 09-15-2011, 02:29 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
Yeah I read it all. Personally I don't think you can have all that and a 1300lb trailer unless possibly you start with a Compact type brand of trailer. I'm not sure it's possible then.

The mythical 900 lb 13 fter really doesn't exist except as an older model stripped shell. All those things you want add up real fast, plus you have to have a good battery and propane tank to run them which adds a minimum of 100 more lbs.

I'm not trying to stomp on your dreams or enthusiasm but trying to think in the real world. I'm going to advise you as I advise everyone who comes here with the dream of finding a really light trailer to tow with a vehicle they shouldn't tow with.

Get a real tow vehicle. It sounds like you are very suited to the RV life style and would truely enjoy it so do it safely! It sounds like you have quite a few cars.. whats one more?
Can you specifically say why it's not "a real tow vehicle"? Because others don't use them for towing much? Because it's not rated by the manufacturer? There is a lot of Miata's out there towing 500 to 800lb loads to the race track even if the manual states it's not rated to tow. This is very common, a trailer with race tire/wheels, tools, often camping gear as well. I know someone (online friend never met in person, but from a Miata forum I've been on for years and it's a tight knit group), who tows a 1000+ lb 4x8 enclosed box without brakes and he says he's never felt anything but confident towing it. At my max weight of 3000lbs I could tow a 2000lb trailer and still only have a 66% tower to towed ratio. 85% is the safe considered the limit in much of the world outside sue happy USA. My target is closer to 50%, but I know I may go a bit over that. But hopefully closer to 1500 than 2000.

There is no money for another tow vehicle AND a egg. Having 3 cars now is doable now, but my family that provides parking for my fleet as I travel the world will not always have the space they now do. So perhaps the Civic could get traded for something with more tow capacity and ground clearance someday, but it would still need to get 30+ mpg on the highway (without a trailer) because that's the main reason I own the Civic. But I really want to have the Miata with me as I travel, so if I buy a vehicle for towing, it'll probably be a camper van/RV that can tow the Miata behind it. No egg. And if I end up with a "real" tow vehicle I just may end up with an Airsteam.

If the Miata+egg equation doesn't work out for this trip the solution will be Miata+under 800lb (loaded) cargo trailer or mini teardrop.

I'm not dedicated to make this happen if it's not safe and comfortable to tow, but I prefer science/engineering/physics/" towing with a small car real world personal experience" based information. Not vague, "your car is not a real tow car" reasons.

But it's great to hear all the opinions, so do tell me what you really think!
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:35 PM   #22
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Now I am curious about weights. Is there anywhere on here or online where people post their weights for various trailers in various configurations? You see "900lbs" listed on ads for old eggs, but for instance Casita says a new 13' with a bathroom will be about 2000lbs. So I'd like to know what some real world scale readings are. And can you just pull up to a weigh station and get weighed? And hopefully not have your trailer impounded if the guys at the weigh station think your over weight!

Also component weights, what do various AC units weigh? Fridges? Hot water heaters? Furnaces etc?

This post is a topic in and of itself!
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:54 PM   #23
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I always say what I really think, gets me in trouble sometimes but that has never stopped me.

I know people tow with cars that are not rated for towing. I guess I have too much equity in my house and money in the bank that I don't want to loose if I cause an accident with an unrated car. Accidents kill and happen fast and furious when involving a towed anything. I couldn't live with that.

I think the topic of "science/engineering/physics/" towing with a small car real world personal experience" and "your car is not a real tow car" has been addressed by your car manufacturer. They have way more knowledge about you car than I.

This topic has been hashed over many, many times here. People just want to hear that what they are planning is ok. IMO it might work ok but it might not and I don't want to be anywhere near one of these experiment that doesn't work. I've seen several accidents where towing guidelines were safely followed but sh*t happens. I'd rather have too much tow vehicle in that event than less.

That said if you do this I want to see pictures.
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:57 PM   #24
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Here ya go...

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...rld-43010.html

There was some talk on what accessories weigh but don't remember where. You can look up weights of thing by looking at RV sales sites and checking shipping weights.

Edited to add...

I don't think there were ever any 900 lb 13 fters except stripped shells as I said in my other post. Add any interior and the weight goes up really fast.
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Old 09-15-2011, 03:12 PM   #25
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You might look into the Little Joe type trailers, they are very nice.

Little Joe Lightweight Trailer - Compact Camper Trailer for 2 by Weiscraft Trailers

Weis Craft Trailers - Little Joe Trailer Floor Plan and Specifications
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Old 09-15-2011, 03:24 PM   #26
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Here ya go...
Awesome, thanks!

These are real world, weighed at the campground, configurations from what I'm reading.

"1. I think all of these trailers had at least one propane tank, if not two. Many had Batteries on the tongue as well.
2. ALL of these trailers were loaded the way that each owner normally traveled."

Here is a list of 18 13' sub 2000lb trailers, 11 of them 1620lbs or less. Looks like sub 1500lb, all ready to go 13's are possible with the right egg and equipment. I had heard the Burros are on the lighter side, and they look cool so those are high on my list... Scamps are heavier than I thought, I figured closer to the simple older Boler like trailers, but still most are closer to 1500lbs than 2000.

01___13_____Burro______B13___________718______90__ ____808
02___13_____Hunter_____Compact Jr____980_____140_____1120
03___13_____Hunter_____Compact Jr___1200_____100_____1300
04___13_____Boler______B1300________1160_____140__ __1300
05___13_____Burro______B13__________1100_____200__ ___1300
06___13_____U-Haul_____CT13_________1260_____180_____1440
07___13_____U-Haul_____CT13_________1400_____150_____1550
08___13_____U-Haul_____CT13_________1400_____160_____1560
09___13_____Hunter_____Compact Jr___1540______60_____1600
10___13_____Hunter_____Compact Jr___1480_____120_____1600
11___13_____Scamp___________________1420_____200__ __1620
12___13_____Hunter_____Compact II___1640______80_____1720
13___13_____Scamp______Standard_____1480_____240__ __1720
14___13_____Hunter_____Compact Jr___1600_____150_____1750
15___13_____Boler______B1300________1580_____220__ __1800
16___13_____Trillium___T1300________1600_____240__ __1840
17___13_____Hunter_____Compact II___1700_____160_____1860
18___13_____Scamp______Standard_____1720_____230__ __1950

Hmm.... I wonder if that Burro down in San Louis Obispo is still for sale...

A lot of my camping gear I'm used to carrying on my back! I'm used to traveling light. Shipping your things overseas and back several times also teaches you to live with fewer/lighter things.

I'd love to see how that 808lb Burro was configured! Talk about bare bones!
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Old 09-15-2011, 03:42 PM   #27
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My 1979 B1300 Boler is not on the list..it weighed 2200 lbs. I'm not sure why it weighs so much. It does have a 3 way fridge, window AC, heater, bamboo flooring, brakes, propane tank and battery. I wasn't even carrying any cast iron cookware!

I don't trust those Burro weights because they weren't weighed by Frederick.
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Old 09-15-2011, 03:51 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
I always say what I really think, gets me in trouble sometimes but that has never stopped me.

I know people tow with cars that are not rated for towing. I guess I have too much equity in my house and money in the bank that I don't want to loose if I cause an accident with an unrated car. Accidents kill and happen fast and furious when involving a towed anything. I couldn't live with that.

I think the topic of "science/engineering/physics/" towing with a small car real world personal experience" and "your car is not a real tow car" has been addressed by your car manufacturer. They have way more knowledge about you car than I.

This topic has been hashed over many, many times here. People just want to hear that what they are planning is ok. IMO it might work ok but it might not and I don't want to be anywhere near one of these experiment that doesn't work. I've seen several accidents where towing guidelines were safely followed but sh*t happens. I'd rather have too much tow vehicle in that event than less.

That said if you do this I want to see pictures.
I wouldn't be satisfied unless you did tell me what you really thought. That'll never get you in trouble with me. But I may ask you WHY you think what you do and challenge your beliefs sometimes. That often gets me in trouble!

I trust Mazda to do what's in their best interest, not mine. If it's in their best interest to say, "it's not rated to tow", it may or may not have anything to do with if it can or cannot safely tow. Likely it's rather more about how they are marketing, selling and maintaining the cars while under warranty. Way more likely they never tested the car for towing and are covering their ass(ets).

I hear what you are saying. I do not want anyone to encourage me just to be "nice" when they think otherwise. I am really asking for experienced, informed opinions. Emphasis on experienced and informed, particularly with these type TVs and trailers. So far I have not heard one, " I tried towing a 1500lb trailer with a 3000lb car 90" wheelbase car, but it just felt really hard to control at times, so I gave up." And thank goodness I haven't heard, " I tried towing 1500lb trailer with a 3000lb car, but had a wreck, so I gave up." But I have heard, " I tow trailers kind of like that with a car like yours without any problems." and, "I tow a 13' egg with a car only a little bigger than yours with no problems."

All that said, your instinct to stay well into the safe zone is a good one and generally should be encouraged!
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Old 09-15-2011, 04:11 PM   #29
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Listen to Lizbeth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
Yeah I read it all. Personally I don't think you can have all that and a 1300lb trailer unless possibly you start with a Compact type brand of trailer. I'm not sure it's possible then.

The mythical 900 lb 13 fter really doesn't exist except as an older model stripped shell. All those things you want add up real fast, plus you have to have a good battery and propane tank to run them which adds a minimum of 100 more lbs.

I'm not trying to stomp on your dreams or enthusiasm but trying to think in the real world. I'm going to advise you as I advise everyone who comes here with the dream of finding a really light trailer to tow with a vehicle they shouldn't tow with.

Get a real tow vehicle. It sounds like you are very suited to the RV life style and would truely enjoy it so do it safely! It sounds like you have quite a few cars.. whats one more?
She's giving you good advice. Stay safe Dylan!
Phil
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Old 09-15-2011, 09:45 PM   #30
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My 1979 B1300 Boler is not on the list..it weighed 2200 lbs. I'm not sure why it weighs so much. It does have a 3 way fridge, window AC, heater, bamboo flooring, brakes, propane tank and battery. I wasn't even carrying any cast iron cookware!

I don't trust those Burro weights because they weren't weighed by Frederick.
All Three of those Burro weights are suspect? Too bad, I'd like good comparisons to other eggs.

Weight adds up fast when modifying things if your not really diligent. Taking it off is way harder than adding it on! I weighed anything I took off or added onto the Miata when doing the modifications to it. Managed to loose like 75lbs while improving the car. Lighter weight alloy and high performance components rather than the mild steel, iron mass produced bit's Mazda put on the car to make more profit. That and taking things off the car I don't need. Who needs a trunk liner!

I don't know your Boler, but I could imagine if you do a custom interior and not be super careful about design and materials you could add on a whole lot of weight real easy. Wood and fiberboard are not necessarily light.
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:04 PM   #31
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No just the two 13s. They are printed in purple on the original list so were not weighed by Fred.

I was not overly weight conscious when I did the Boler. We always tow with trucks or SUVs so it isn't really an issue. It was probably my "Princess and the Pea" bed that added the most weight. And my collection of ball gowns.
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Old 09-16-2011, 11:26 AM   #32
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Well, those are the two burros that matter to me. Oh well, I'll take those numbers with a grain of salt.

Average household items can be pretty heavy too. And those ball gowns a collection of those might weigh more than my car!
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Old 09-16-2011, 05:39 PM   #33
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Frankly the only weight that really matters, is the full-loaded for towing weight of your particular trailer and the weight your particular tug can safely tow according to the tug manufacturers guidelines. Everything else is speculative. YMMV
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:44 PM   #34
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One more link: HowStuffWorks "How bad is it if I tow more than my truck's towing capacity?"
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Old 09-17-2011, 11:16 AM   #35
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About 1980 we bought a 13' scamp and towed it all over the west from SFO, even to OK City. We towed with a hot rod model A Ford with later engine and brakes, a 1981 VW Rabbit convertible (gas engine) and a stock '38 Ford. The trailer had brakes and well loaded, I thought it probably weighted about 1500#. With four of us traveling in this rig it worked very well. I spent a month in it in LA (by myself) so that I didn't have to stay at the hotel near LAX while in training. That was the most enjoyable training session I had at LA. Reference your concern about staying in a small trailer, Nancy the small dog and I spent 7 weeks in our 19 this summer and we're ready for next summer.
Jack of Tucson
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Old 09-17-2011, 05:24 PM   #36
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About 1980 we bought a 13' scamp and towed it all over the west from SFO, even to OK City. We towed with a hot rod model A Ford with later engine and brakes, a 1981 VW Rabbit convertible (gas engine) and a stock '38 Ford. The trailer had brakes and well loaded, I thought it probably weighted about 1500#. With four of us traveling in this rig it worked very well. I spent a month in it in LA (by myself) so that I didn't have to stay at the hotel near LAX while in training. That was the most enjoyable training session I had at LA. Reference your concern about staying in a small trailer, Nancy the small dog and I spent 7 weeks in our 19 this summer and we're ready for next summer.
Jack of Tucson
If a 81 Rabbit can tow a simple 13' egg, my car can. That's not sayin' it's ideal, but that it can in theory be done. Should be trying out an '83 Burro tomorrow. May even be pulling it 250 miles home. The seller is an experienced tower and she said she'd let me test-tow it with her along to advise.
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Old 09-17-2011, 05:25 PM   #37
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Again, thanks for all the input folks, both the encouraging and discouraging.
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:36 PM   #38
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So....did you find the perfect camper yet? I am waiting to see pictures of that Miata pulling your new egg.
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:37 PM   #39
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Oh yeah, I need to update this topic! Check out my "Trailer:" on my profile, 2001 Scamp, great condition. Custom front dinette. Not perfect, but really really close for my needs. Nice enough I don't have to do much to it, not so new I feel guilty making drastic makeover plans. I do need to get a hot water heater and catalytic heater in ASAP. But first get to New Mexico, I'm packing up now, probably leave tomorrow AM. Got 6 days to make it to New Mexico.

This is my car before towing the scamp for the first time. I've raised the cars suspension about an inch and got a head that raises the ball another inch or so. It looks more level now. I'm a little embarrassed at how dirty the car is in that pic! Had a whole trip up to B.C. and then down past LA's worth of dirt on it!

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Old 10-04-2011, 06:43 PM   #40
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Thumbs up

Now that is the greatest tow vehicle I have seen yet. I don't think I have ever seen anyone pull a Scamp with a vehicle that was actually smaller then the camper itself. I love it. How does it tow? Great looking Scamp too. Hope it works out for you. Thanks for posting the picture.
Tyler



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Originally Posted by dylanear View Post
Oh yeah, I need to update this topic! Check out my "Trailer:" on my profile, 2001 Scamp, great condition. Custom front dinette. Not perfect, but really really close for my needs. Nice enough I don't have to do much to it, not so new I feel guilty making drastic makeover plans. I do need to get a hot water heater and catalytic heater in ASAP. But first get to New Mexico, I'm packing up now, probably leave tomorrow AM. Got 6 days to make it to New Mexico.

This is my car before towing the scamp for the first time. I've raised the cars suspension about an inch and got a head that raises the ball another inch or so. It looks more level now. I'm a little embarrassed at how dirty the car is in that pic! Had a whole trip up to B.C. and then down past LA's worth of dirt on it!

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