Hi! Got this crazy idea!!! - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 10-04-2011, 11:39 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by EddyEd View Post
Now that is the greatest tow vehicle I have seen yet. I don't think I have ever seen anyone pull a Scamp with a vehicle that was actually smaller then the camper itself. I love it. How does it tow? Great looking Scamp too. Hope it works out for you. Thanks for posting the picture.
Tyler
Glad you like it! I can't tell you the attention it gets. I get a lot of thumbs up from guys and smiles from the ladies, not to mention several women have said, "That's so cute!" One leaning out the window of a truck to yell it. Got some appreciation from a lady in the passenger seat of a LARGE pickup pulling a newer, bigger (16, 17?) Casita.

Keep in mind it may be smaller than the trailer, but it's a lot denser. How does it tow? Hard for me to tell you with any perspective since I've never towed anything else. In 500 miles through LA streets and freeways, from heavy stop and go to doing 60 being passed at 80, to the curvy hilly stretches of the 1 coastal road from LA to the SF bay area it always felt under control and stable. My car has huge power compared to factory Miatas and getting it up to speed was never a problem, never had to floor it or even close. A few times I felt I needed to pass quickly went just fine. Stopping is something I was always anticipating as far ahead as possible and doing so slowly and very deliberately. The brakes on the car are massive compared to what Mazda put on the car so I have little fear they won't have enough power or that they will overheat, but I do really worry about what would happen if I stomped on the brakes in a panic, generally I don't panic thankfully, but if a deer or something jumped out of the brush or god forbid a person/driver did something stupid, all bets are off. The car can stop fast, but that trailer will certainly come around if I stopped the car with full power. So you just have to keep your eyes on what's ahead and your brain on the road. It's a bit tiring, I just don't feel comfortable spacing out at all ever. The ride on my car is not great, it's a sports car with much stiffer than stock springs and the ride is a bit worse towing, additional bumps coming through the hitch as well as the ones coming up from the tires/wheels. Really poor road surfaces are jarring, does not feel like it's good for my suspension. I slow to a crawl when I see rough pavement ahead (like construction). I can't quite recommend it really, it's far from an ideal tow vehicle, but it does seem to work. I'm sure my opinion will shift as I get more experience with it. I really don't want to tow in the rain with it, I don't enjoy stop and go traffic at all, don't plan to take it down anything but the smoothest dirt roads. But cruising the 1, curves and hills and all was fantastic! When it does work really well, it is really fun. The trip home was a real blast. But I can imagine sitting around for a day to sit out bad weather may dampen the fun. With a big truck I might just tow through the bad weather. Looks like we're facing rain this week, it rained here today and is raining hard tonight. So I probably will have it in the rain at some point, but unless it's on uncrowded easy going interstate, I'll be chilling somewhere, not towing. At least until I get a little more of a feel for it in the wet. I sure hope for dry roads tomorrow! It does not have brakes, I tried, but there was no practical way to get them delivered and installed in time. While I've never felt the need for them so far, I'll enjoy the peace of mind once I do get that new axle with brakes on there. And I haven't towed it all loaded up. I have the heavy stuff in the car (way too many tools, heavy camera gear, various small yet heavy items), but there will probably be an extra 150 or 200 lbs of gear in the trailer too. I will report back! I'll probably start a topic on the trip.
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Old 10-08-2011, 07:14 AM   #42
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I am so interested on your thoughts after towing it around for a bit! The wife and I stumbled upon our 13' Trillium when we were looking into teardrops to tow behind our convertible Beetle. In full disclosure, we have a 2003 Tahoe to tow, but I would totally dig seeing your rig driving down the highway. I just just would't want to be the guy who had to stop in front of you.

Happy camping. That looks like a blast of a setup!
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Old 10-08-2011, 10:51 AM   #43
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Latest report: Well I had my first serous issue. The other morning I noticed my hitch looked a bit low. Turns out the receiver had slipped a few degrees. I took it to a tire/alignment shop that pushed it straight and retightened the bolts. About 30 miles later I stopped at a camping world. After shopping I walk out to the rig and see it's low again. Well this time the receiver is snug in place, but it's bending. This is a stopper, I'm not traveling on this, no way. So I tow across the street where I'm told I can park overnight and I start a desperate search for a new receiver. After hours talking to camping world, U-Haul etc, I manage to get a Curt hitch rated to 2000/200lbs overnighted. I had a nice dinner in a big rear engined diesel with an Alaskan couple also overnighting in that lot. Camping world got it installed the next day. It looks much more solid than what I had. No problems after 300 miles. I shifted some weight off the tongue just in case.

As I said before, I can't recommended this rig, in the hands of some one less than careful I could see it being problematic. I would not want to see the average American driver trying this. It requires constant attention and careful car control to keep it smooth and avoid potential issues. But it's never felt anything but under control for me. I have noticed a few small shimmys or occilations of the trailer since the new receiver. Nothing bad, but felt more stable before. I think the weight shift of gear from the front area to the rear and the fact that the new receiver puts the tongue up higher are responsible. I'm going to put on a head I have that is a bit lower and maybe put some of the gear over the axle that is now all the way in back.

But all that said, I am having a blast.
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:34 PM   #44
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Get out the bathroom scale and weigh that tongue. It will help you to know the weight. Just put it under the jack and then jack up off the ball; the scale should go to 300 lbs.
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Old 10-09-2011, 01:30 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Mike Magee View Post
Get out the bathroom scale and weigh that tongue. It will help you to know the weight. Just put it under the jack and then jack up off the ball; the scale should go to 300 lbs.
I guess I could walk around the campground to see if any of the trailers have one! Just by lifting it I can tell it's much lighter, if it was much over 200 I doubt I'd be lifting it. It felt great today, the head I have on there came with the receiver, fits tighter, and brings the tongue a bit more than an inch lower and and inch closer the bumper, couldn't be much closer to the bumper without possible contact. Not sure if it's the lower tongue or the better weight distribution of the gear, probably both, but it feels more stable than even I hauled it empty. This receiver is smaller in overall size, but of much heavier construction.

The turbo is great in the mountains, I'm at 7000 feet and it pulls like a freight train. No problems pulling the scamp up the passes to get here. There are plenty of times I have to try hard to not creep over 55 or 60.

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Old 10-09-2011, 07:54 AM   #46
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Dylan, I have a 96 Miata, but I don't tow with it. Anyway I thought you might like to get something like I have on mine, a rear rack. I use it for short trips to put all my camping stuff to.

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Old 10-09-2011, 07:42 PM   #47
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If Dylan is trying to make sure the hitch weight stays lighter, is it a good idea to put weight on the back of the car? Obviously, the weight will not be directly over the hitch, but it still seems counterproductive.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:39 AM   #48
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There's a lot of light stuff you can put on the back rack and not make a difference in height. Also he has the stiffer suspension which will help also. The rack on the back isn't going to make or break the hitch. Making the hitch load lighter has a lot to do with how you load your trailer.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:54 AM   #49
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I'll be, may be rude, but honest. Yes, you are right this is a crazy idea. Some day, if you tow that Scamp long enough with that Miata, you will get killed or injured or worst you will kill others, a mother, children etc... That is simply not something to do. There is no gimmicks, adjustments, solutions to a dangerous and inadequate TV. Be responsible, stop it and stop it now.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:36 PM   #50
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Tim, Greetings fellow Miata lover! Looks like you have a nice one, I like the original body style too, I still have my original '91 I bought in '94. A very different animal than my Mazdaspeed, but I enjoy the simpler, lighter, older cars a lot. I had a rack on the back of my "Eunos Roadster" (Japanese market early Miata) in New Zealand. Very useful for road trips and car camping, in this case I don't think it's too useful. The heavy stuff is in the passenger area with some dense stuff in the trunk. Plenty of room for light stuff in the trailer. But putting weight on that rack from the trailer would reduce the load on the hitch/receiver, but not the rear wheels. But you just can't put too much on there before you start messing with your trunk lid.

Thanks for your opinion Normand, if you have specific experience or technical reasons for your opinion please let me know. Have you ever towed with a small car, if so which one and what was your experience? Everything carries risk, including driving down a normal road in a normal car driving normally. It's about managing those risks. I don't plan to commute with the combo, I'd guess 2 or 3 thousand miles this year, driven with excessive care and attention. But I do appreciate your concern.
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:48 PM   #51
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Dylan, hmmmmm You come here for opinions and yet when there has been questions from others you, foo foo their opinions off. And go with the opinions that best meet your needs.


Normand and others have had valid concerns/opinions, and though you say you appreciate their opinions do you really? Because your come back is, well if I only drive 2 or 3 thousand miles a year! It doesn't matter how many miles, what matters is that you do it safely............ 5 miles could spell disaster when improper towing is being done. I understand your car has somewhat of a tow capacity, but as you said in your opening post, wheel base, etc also play a factor.

In some of your older post this week there have been issues, yet you throw something at the issue and hope it sticks, when in all common sense you should perhaps re-think your tow vehicle all together....... Just sayin!


FYI, Your speaking of weight in your passenger side of the vehicle, Do you understand for every pound inside the vehicle your taking away from your tow capacity?

Can improper towing be done? SURE! Hello people do it daily. It still doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, just because it can be done.
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:18 PM   #52
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Another Perspective

There's no doubt that some vehicles are better tow vehicles than others, but there's nothing more important than the driver.

On the Casita Forum there's a description of a Casita being towed to a customer at over 80 mph. The Casita owner that spotted it had previously seen the driver of the tow vehicle at the factory.

The towing driver probably had an 'appropriate' tow vehicle.

I suspect one of the biggest accident towing factors is speed. Nothing is more important than a conscious driver behaving appropriately.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:01 PM   #53
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Robin, I am open to any useful information, I have not meant to foo foo anyone's opinions, but that doesn't mean I find every opinion as valid or useful as others. I'm very open to discussion the technical issues. I'm not as convinced by vague opinions without accompanying technical discussion or especially based on actual experiences which I assure you I welcome.

Yes, I've got some warning and dire predictions, I've also got encouraging information and have heard from people you have towed similar trailers with other similar weight and wheel base small vehicles and if they killed anyone they didn't mention it. Opinions vary widely it seems. The truth of the matter? Hard to say with 100% certainty, but the 1000+ miles I've towed so far have been uneventful and drama free other than a bent receiver which has been replaced with a more standard, much stronger looking part. If it ever felt unsafe, uncontrollable, I'd be a lot more concerned. I assure you I value my life, my car and this trailer more than anyone else does. The first receiver I tried was a lighter duty part that was new to the market, in retrospect I should have started with a more known quantity, the Curt hitch I now have is the one Camping World, U-Haul, etc. sell and I have high confidence in it. The last one was my major mechanical concern, and that concern turned out to be well founded (I was inspecting it closely at every stop, that's why I found the issue within a 50 miles, it was fine last I checked it on the other side of Bakersfield) I spent 2 days waiting to get that properly fixed rather than risking continuing to tow on it another mile. I feel I'm being pretty cautious and careful.

My understanding of vehicle loading is that the weight of the vehicle should never exceed the the max gross weight (as listed on the door sticker) fully loaded including the tongue weight. I don't have a scale to measure that, but I have been keeping an on the weight of everything I'm packing. I do know the empty weight accurately. Curt says my new receiver is rated for 2000lbs, I'd be pretty shocked if my Scamp fully loaded was even 1500bs, It's factory spec is 950 and I know I haven't put 500lbs in it, probably not even 150 since everything heavy is in the car. If I can figure a way to weigh the car, trailer and tongue weight I will. I've not heard that adding weight to the car takes away towing capacity (but obviously the max vehicle weight, tongue weight and hitch tow capacity should not be exceeded, and your engine and brakes have to handle the entire weight of the car and trailer and everything in them). Can you point me to more info about vehicle loading and it's effect on towing capacity? What I have read on the subject, what I recall being told on here previously, at least in my interpretation is a bit different from what your saying.

Is it the safest towing combo out there? Is it the end all and be all of tow vehicles for me? No. If I start towing this all over all the time I probably will get another tow vehicle eventually. Do I feel I'm taking an excessive risk? Not on my experience so far. And I put first hand personal experience above most opinion on the internet, if that makes me crazy, so be it. Especially when those opinions don't offer specific experience or evidence to counter mine or put mine in context.

I really do welcome discussion, but if it's just going to be non technical "foo foo"ing of opinions that differ from those foo fooing, i'll get bored quick. "Your being unsafe", or "your crazy/stupid" are simply not very useful to me. "I towed a 13' egg with a 2400b, 90" wheelbase, 250hp car with 11" heavy duty brakes and my experience was this..." would be very, very helpful and welcome. "I once lost control of xxxx trailer once when towing with xxxx vehicle under xxxx conditions" would be good, etc. I welcome data a lot more than opinions.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:08 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
There's no doubt that some vehicles are better tow vehicles than others, but there's nothing more important than the driver.

On the Casita Forum there's a description of a Casita being towed to a customer at over 80 mph. The Casita owner that spotted it had previously seen the driver of the tow vehicle at the factory.

The towing driver probably had an 'appropriate' tow vehicle.

I suspect one of the biggest accident towing factors is speed. Nothing is more important than a conscious driver behaving appropriately.
Indeed, I would not trust the average driver to tow this combo safely. Than again, I don't trust the average driver to be able to drive an average car and listen to the radio at the same time safely. When I'm passed by some huge truck towing at 80, and I've seen it many times on this trip, I feel like I'm being safe and careful in comparison!
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:20 PM   #55
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Hi, Congrats on finding your camper!

I'm curious if you have trailer brakes on it? I towed my 77 Boler over Stevens Pass (Hwy 2) this summer and boy, coming down was scary with 1200 plus pounds pushing behind me. I know Stevens is one of the steeper passes, but it took all my courage to bring her down carefully.

My plan is to install brakes (new axle) this winter so I can explore the dry east side of Washington. I've read that installing brakes increases the tow capacity, because the rating isn't based on moving forward as much as it is stopping. In other words, anything can pull, but stopping is the important criteria. Even with the Rav4, I can feel the weight and the pressure on our hills and curves up here. Just curious about your experiences.

If you do make it to WA, look me up. I can help you find a good county or state park to spend the night and perhaps some fireside chats for company. As an avid traveler/photographer myself, would love to hear about your New Zealand travels.

Take care, Jamie
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:25 PM   #56
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You can weigh your trailer at many places. We used a Cat Scale location to weigh ours. CAT Scale

Many truck stops have scales too. Use one. I doubt your trailer weighs 950 lbs empty. "Factory weights" usually mean the empty shell and have no meaning in the real world.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:23 AM   #57
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Dylan,

When I bought my Scamp, I was towing it with a 2,600 pound car with a 128hp engine. Tow rating in the US was ZERO pounds (1,600 pounds overseas). I also used a Curt hitch, and was very happy with it. The car had OEM brakes... Disc up front and drums in the rear. The trailer does not have brakes.

I found that it towed pretty well. I could certainly go "too fast" if I wanted to. Braking seemed good... Even in the one or two instances when I had to get on the pedal. As far as mountains, I only had it in the hills of western Maryland and PA, and the Poconos. It did well... In fact, I got 24 MPG going to the Poconos. Here's a pic right before leaving on that trip:



I traded up to a Subaru Outback, which weighs about 3,500 pounds and has 170hp. It certainly pulls a lot easier with the additional HP and torque, and benefits from a CVT transmission. I also have a Curt hitch on the Subie.

Good luck with your Scamp adventures!
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:26 AM   #58
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By the way, I weighed my Scamp when I first bought it. No gear inside. It was 1,200 pounds. The only heavy option is the fridge. No AC, no heat, no water tanks.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:47 PM   #59
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Jamie, I was just up in the pac nor west, car camping. More BC and Oregon, my time in WA was brief sadly. No, as discussed in other topics, I wasn't able to get a new axle with brakes in time and Dexter said brake flanges could not, or at least should not be welded to my type trailing arm axle. Before the next big trip I plan on that new axle and brakes. I've never felt I was having trouble bleeding off speed. I've been on some huge mountain passes, but the biggest have been going up. Other than a few wiggles when I had the higher head installed and a lot of gear placed at the very rear of the trailer this rig feels very stable and predictable. I do drive very deliberately and attentively, so I've yet to have to stop in a huge hurry other than test stops and I plan not to. Just paying attention eleminates 99.99% of reasons to stop in a panicked manner. I keep a large gap between me and anything in front, I slow before intersections even when I expect them to stay green, I slow way before curves and down grades. The few harder test stops I've made on empty roads have slowed things pretty quickly, so I have some idea of how it can stop. Having to brake significantly in a sharp corner isn't 100% comfortable, but no matter what you're driving one should brake before and not in turns. I imagine if I was overspeed to begin with a huge down grade could get very hairy. But approached at safe speeds I don't fear down grades, my brakes are massive for a Miata and are designed for abuse on the race track. You can stomp on them all day and they will not overheat or fade. I haven't felt it pushing too much or wiggling/oscillations going down hill braking. The one time I really didn't like the wiggle was a mild down grade curve I hit a bit too fast, was braking some and hit a big bump, all combined it did raise the hair on the back back of my neck, but simply backing off the brakes a tad, smoothly, and it settled, and then I got back on the brakes again no problem. I think the extra stiff springs and excellent damping of my shocks helps keep thing under control, if it's not a comfy ride. I doubt I'd feel more stability with a bigger, better rated tv with a sloppy soft suspension that let the trailer push the tv around. I'd love to get some experience with another tv, perhaps I could rent one to try out??

Lizbeth, there's a few Cat scales east on the 40, I'll see if I can't get to one during business hours. Maybe get a bathroom scale at Walmart.


Great data McBrew! I really don't think my Miata is way far than the first tv you describe, few hundred lbs less, but more HP, brakes and stiffer suspension. The chassis of the Miata is pretty stiff, it's got frame rails, not like a truck or big American car chassis, but a lot more bracing and reinforcement to the lower chassis than most monocoque chassis since it has no roof and the car is designed to be driven hard. Interesting about your weight, especially for an older scamp. If yours is 1200 empty, mine probably is too if not more, the wooden front dinette in mine looks like a lot of wood! And on the front too. Heck, I may be around 1500lbs. And while I can lift the tongue, I am a bit concerned with that weight on the receiver.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:24 AM   #60
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Good news and bad news. Good news is I'm there. Cedar Crest , NM. Safe, sound no worries, had an amazing trip.

Bad? Got weighed and I'm way more portly than I imagined. Mostly worrisome is being over the tv max weight by 150ish lbs, 5%ish so not shockingly bad. The trailer, loaded is like 1600, not including tongue weight! I don't think I have 200lbs of gear in the trailer, I think this is just one heavy 13 footer! The tongue was hitched to the tv, so that weight is included in the car's measurement. It was on a segmented truck scale with the tv on one segment and the trailer on another. If I had unhitched and weighed again I could subtract to get the tongue weight. Shoulda, coulda. I'll see about getting a bathroom scale to weigh the tongue, also I can weigh all the things in the trailer, add them up and subtract from the weighed amount to get some idea of empty weight. I think I'm going to have to remove the very nice and very stoutly built wooden dinette in front. I want to shed like 200 lbs from the travel weight. The dinette is all very thick, dense plywood, and reinforced. Much heavier than the fiberglass front seats from Scamp I'm sure. Oh well, probably best to build the front from scratch for the shower, etc. Keeping it light and simple.
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