Hi, Looking for Recommendations for Family of Four-Bunkhouse - Fiberglass RV


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Old 07-17-2020, 02:51 PM   #1
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Name: Leo
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Hi, Looking for Recommendations for Family of Four-Bunkhouse

Hi,

New here and to camping in general. I *think* I've decided on a fiberglass unit for our family of four--two adults and boys ages 2 and 7.

I'm 6' and ideally would like a comfortable bed, spacious enough to accommodate my height. My entire family is slender but slightly on the taller side.

I'll be pulling the trailer with a 2017 honda ridgeline rated to tow 5000 lbs. We recently rented a Mallard Heartland weighing 3600 lbs dry and the truck labored through mountain passes and the transmission light said it was "too hot." Granted, I live in southern NV and the temps that day were 112F. This wasnt a terrible tragedy as I just pulled over, turned the truck off, waited 10 min and was fine the rest of the way (happened both to and from campsite 2.5 hrs away) to Utah.

As the title states, I'd like to purchase something comfortable, ideally in a bunkhouse style. I am willing to purchase new and am not wed to any ideas.
Budget: Ideally <30k max

Any suggestions? Thanks!
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Old 07-17-2020, 03:55 PM   #2
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No suggestions on what model but this is a great site


https://www.fiberglass-rv-4sale.com/
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Old 07-17-2020, 05:54 PM   #3
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I have an Escape 17b with a goucho front dinette that turns into bunk beds. It does fine for our family of four. Here is the link for the Escape owners forum.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/

Just a heads up, if you get a hot transmission light the owners manual says to put it in park and let it idle until the light goes away.
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Old 07-17-2020, 08:28 PM   #4
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I'll second the Escape 17B with bunk option.

For a lighter, less expensive, but decidedly cozier trailer for 4, there's also the Scamp 16 side bath model (layout 4). Not too hard to find used in the $15K range. Starter, maybe?

Both Scamp and Escape have a fairly long lead time to buy new.

Best wishes!
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Old 07-17-2020, 11:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L in NV View Post
Hi,

New here and to camping in general. I *think* I've decided on a fiberglass unit for our family of four--two adults and boys ages 2 and 7.

I'm 6' and ideally would like a comfortable bed, spacious enough to accommodate my height. My entire family is slender but slightly on the taller side.

I'll be pulling the trailer with a 2017 honda ridgeline rated to tow 5000 lbs. We recently rented a Mallard Heartland weighing 3600 lbs dry and the truck labored through mountain passes and the transmission light said it was "too hot." Granted, I live in southern NV and the temps that day were 112F. This wasnt a terrible tragedy as I just pulled over, turned the truck off, waited 10 min and was fine the rest of the way (happened both to and from campsite 2.5 hrs away) to Utah.

As the title states, I'd like to purchase something comfortable, ideally in a bunkhouse style. I am willing to purchase new and am not wed to any ideas.
Budget: Ideally <30k max

Any suggestions? Thanks!
Welcome to the forum Leo. The Mallard M185 by Heartland has a published dry weight of about 3,600 lbs. It's almost 22' long as measured from the tow ball to the back of the cabin. It has no slide. The ceiling is height 6'8" and the trailer width is 8'5". It has an 8 cubic foot refrigerator. Does this look like the one you rented?

https://heartlandrvs.com/2020/travel...allard/ma-185/

Molded fiberglass trailers are measured similarly, so a 16' or a 17' unit would be much shorter in length and smaller overall than the 22' trailer you rented. I'm not clear if a molded fiberglass trailer would be a good fit for what you have described. These trailers are typically not nearly as wide as the Mallard. They tend to round off corners, reducing both space and storage. The ceilings generally aren't very high. The refrigerators are generally smaller.

These molded trailers also don't generally come in a "bunkhouse style" like the Mallard had and as many other "conventional" trailer brands offer, though some do have optional small bunks with weight limits around 100(?) lbs. There's normally not separate dining and sleeping arrangements for four people; I think you'd be converting a bed to and from a dinette each morning and evening.

About the nearest equivalent to the Mallard would probably be a Bigfoot, and they run much heavier and are more expensive. And they still don't offer a bunkhouse floor plan.

As another comparison, our Escape 21' is nearly as long as the Mallard, only has a 6 cu ft fridge, is narrower and shorter inside than the Mallard, and runs over 500 lbs tongue weight for most folks that pull one. The Escape 21 is also rated at 5,000 lbs GVWR; we run ours loaded for travel at about 4,600 lbs. So, it would be pushing your Honda's rated towing limits. (The second and third passengers normally reduce your tow rating, but it sounds like the boys are currently pretty light.)

I'm not clear personally, but I think some people may pull Scamp 19's with Honda Ridgelines, although I think they might be operating outside of Honda's parameters. The Scamp 19 has a sort-of fifth-wheel arrangement where the trailer rides on a hitch mounted in the bed of the truck. It has a bit higher ceiling.

Have you been inside any of the molded trailers yet? Could you tell us more about what the attraction of a molded fiberglass trailer is for you? Not to worry, others here will be able to tell you more about your options with various brands and layouts than I am able to.

Meanwhile, I suggest looking at the Escape and Scamp trailer floor plans on their websites and see how they might resonate with you.
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Old 07-18-2020, 12:05 AM   #6
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My advice is to get your transmission fluid flushed and replace with new.
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Old 07-18-2020, 05:16 AM   #7
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It would have been interesting to run that Mallard across a truck scale. It may have been weighing in at 4,500 pounds if not more.

You would be hard pressed to get a molded FG trailer with the room of that Mallard, with the exception of a 25 foot Bigfoot. A 25 foot Bigfoot is an expensive trailer, and will be way too heavy for that Honda.

Molded FG trailers tend to be smaller (both shorter in overall length and narrower), and more expensive too. 4 season units like Bigfoot are even more expensive. Where they beat the traditional trailers by a long shot is durability. Sometimes people need a bad experience with a traditional trailer to convince them the compromises are worth it. The other place molded FG excels is holding their value. A traditional trailer can lose up to half its value in the first year or two of ownership. Meanwhile, molded FG tend to lose very little.

So best to get the value out of a traditional trailer by using it, assume very little resale value. The experiences become the value. No RV is an "investment" of course.
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Old 07-18-2020, 08:09 AM   #8
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Hi, Looking for Recommendations for Family of Four-Bunkhouse

If you want a trailer comfortably within the Ridgeline’s 5000# tow rating that won’t overheat the transmission on long grades (agree about changing the fluid, BTW)- then a smaller molded trailer is the ticket.

And yes, they are small. The two I mentioned are narrow, about 80” wide. That’s handy because you won’t need towing mirror extensions with the Ridgeline, and it makes for easier towing. The Escape 17 has a c. 14’ cabin and the Scamp 16 has a c. 13’ cabin.

They’ll sleep four if you’re not unusually tall or large. Bed sizes are smaller than what you’re used to at home, sometimes a lot smaller. Scamp main “double” bed is 45”x76” and the bunks are 24”x76”. Not sure about the Escape, a little more generous I think, but it’s on their website.

Both have wet baths rather than the dry baths more common in conventional trailers. The Scamp side bath is quite small and height-limited.

Small molded trailers are best used by a family as a base for outdoor activities, not for extended indoor living.

We camp with four people in a no-bath Scamp 13 (80”W by 10’ long). We cook and eat outside and spend most of our time hiking, bicycling, exploring, lounging in the shade... We make the narrow main bed work by sleeping head-to-toe in tapered bags. With beds converted to seating and bedding stowed, there is plenty of room to hang out inside for a few hours in bad weather. Convertible spaces are key to making a small trailer work. More than a few hours of bad weather, though, and we usually hop in the car and take a day excursion to a nearby town to do indoor stuff- visit a museum, tour a college, shop & eat out...

If you decide you need something more the size and layout of your rental, you won’t find it in molded fiberglass, and you’ll need a full-size pickup to pull it. You do not want to regularly overheat the transmission. Doing so will shorten its life. The computer prevents a catastrophic failure, but that does not mean no harm is done.

Note on lengths: traditionally travel trailers are measured by total length, tongue to bumper. Molded fiberglass manufacturers still follow that convention. So does Airstream. However, most makers of conventional framed trailers now designate their models by cabin length. So making apples-to-apples comparisons can be confusing. As a general rule, the tongue and bumper will add about 3’, assuming the trailer does not have a lengthened tongue to accommodate a cargo box.

Note on weights: manufacturer dry weights do not include options, fluids, gear, or supplies. Actual loaded weights are typically much higher. For molded fiberglass trailers, see the thread “Trailer Weights in the Real World” in the General Chat section for actual scaled weights of various makes and models loaded for travel. Post #297 links to a handy spreadsheet.
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Old 07-18-2020, 11:09 AM   #9
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@everyone: I cant begin to tell you how helpful all this information is. I'll try and address as many of these points one-by-one and hopefully get some more guidance to narrow down my search.

Quote:
The Mallard M185 by Heartland has a published dry weight of about 3,600 lbs. It's almost 22' long as measured from the tow ball to the back of the cabin. It has no slide. The ceiling is height 6'8" and the trailer width is 8'5". It has an 8 cubic foot refrigerator. Does this look like the one you rented?
Yes! This is exactly what we rented.

Quote:
Have you been inside any of the molded trailers yet? Could you tell us more about what the attraction of a molded fiberglass trailer is for you? Not to worry, others here will be able to tell you more about your options with various brands and layouts than I am able to.
Closest I've been in is the Nest and a Happier Camper. The attractions of a FG trailer includes (as I understand them) are a)lighter weights b)durability c) resale value d) overall customer satisfaction e)build quality. I liked the layout of that mallard very much but it was lacking in many other ways in terms of quality.

Quote:
I'm not clear personally, but I think some people may pull Scamp 19's with Honda Ridgelines, although I think they might be operating outside of Honda's parameters. The Scamp 19 has a sort-of fifth-wheel arrangement where the trailer rides on a hitch mounted in the bed of the truck. It has a bit higher ceiling.
I looked at this model online and loved it! I did some research on a RL with this mod and my biggest problem is I'm not sure I'm comfortable making a mod to my truck that will void its warranty. I'm also not sure how I'd even find someone to do it.

Some other points of note:
1) My primary 'want' is being comfortable while sleeping. With a 2 yo in tow, sleep is of the utmost importance. He slept well in the mallard.
2) My family of 4 (I'm the tallest at 6') would likely use our trailer about 25 nt/yr.
3) We would spend the majority of our time outside. We would cook mostly outside and be out much of the day. I'm viewing the trailer as a place where we can sleep reasonably comfortably and duck into to get out of the heat.
4) I definitely want a bunk in the trailer since the two boys will never rest comfortably in the same 'bed.' The 2 yo is just on a completely different sleep schedule and thrashes around like mad when he sleeps. The bunkhouse arrangement worked well in the Mallard and I'd like to mimic that.
5) I do not want to change tow vehicles and will keep my Honda RL.

So, as I stated in the initial post, I'm not wed to any single TT concept. I'm also ok with a 4 month lead time if it means getting something which checks all the boxes.

There is a mess of information out there and since the FG community seems to be very passionate about the product, I thought I'd explore this option.

Maybe the right answer is buying something "conventional" knowing it wont be as durable but provide me with the correct configuration without sacrificing more space? I just don't know what to do. Nevermind that people are snapping up these TTs like made these days too!

In general, buying something of good quality has suited me well over the years and I was trying to take the same approach here. But if going the conventional route makes more sense in this application I'm more than happy to do that too.
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Old 07-18-2020, 11:46 AM   #10
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Hi, Looking for Recommendations for Family of Four-Bunkhouse

Leo,

One other option would be a Scamp 16 Deluxe Layout A with the free swap of sofa/bunks instead of the front dinette.

The floor plan is similar to the Layout 4 but it has a 54” main bed, that might increase your sleeping comfort, instead of the 44” main bed found in the Layout 4. Both have the side bathroom which is smaller than the front bathroom Scamps (a tall man would need to duck or sit down.)

In another recent thread, a couple of guys in the Northwest were evaluating an Escape 17B versus the Scamp16 Deluxe Layout A with front sofa/bunks. I put a link to pix of our Scamp16D-A in that thread.

Escape 17B vs Scamp 16 towing
https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/...ad.php?t=92518

I would suggest that you actually get an in-person look at any/all candidate trailers by attending one or more FGRV rallies (prior to CoVid19, they have generally had an “open house” day where you can see/experience multiple brands of trailers) or by calling the vendors for a list of owners near you that might be willing to show you their trailers.

Best of luck to you in your shopping and decisions!

Ray
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Old 07-18-2020, 12:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L in NV View Post
Maybe the right answer is buying something "conventional" knowing it wont be as durable but provide me with the correct configuration without sacrificing more space? I just don't know what to do. Nevermind that people are snapping up these TTs like made these days too!

In general, buying something of good quality has suited me well over the years and I was trying to take the same approach here. But if going the conventional route makes more sense in this application I'm more than happy to do that too.
Your post was very helpful; it sounds like you've got your eyes open to the trade-offs. You will have to decide what makes sense for your situation.

One of our members (cpaharley2008) has purchased three or four Escapes and two Lances as best I recall. I think Lance is among the "better" conventional trailers. However, his experiences were poor, to state it mildly.

Ultimately, there is no substitute for a molded shell in terms of resisting leaks. Some of the conventional trailers extol features such as laminated sidewall construction, aluminum framing, and one-piece roofs. However the tales of sidewall delamination and various leaks are legion.

Bottom line, if there is a square corner, such as the junction between the sidewall and the roof, 1) it will concentrate stresses that occur as the trailer flexes, especially while towing, and 2) it depends on a caulking-type sealant to maintain water-tight integrity at the very location where stresses are concentrated and causing movement. So, the sealing very often fails. By the way, rubber roofs are a product that are very common, but also have a limited life.

Many RV manufacturers actually call for inspecting and resealing the seams either once or twice each year(!). They also don't back their (luxury recreation) products with warranties in the same way that motor vehicles (essential transportation) are backed up. The fact that our daily transportation vehicles are so well warranteed is only due to historical acts of Congress. An RV isn't treated the same way under the law, and the lemon laws provide limited recourse.

Being located in the "Northwet", I was very concerned about leaks. I looked particularly at Lance and Northwood and other reputedly better brands. I considered that if I had covered storage I might be able to dry out the trailer between trips and thus enjoy a satisfactory experience. In fact, some owners do report many years of trouble-free life with conventional trailers. However, the odds are clearly aligned with a higher incidence of leaks, often leading to structural issues and/or mold.

There was a short-lived product line that featured wood-free construction with aluminum framing; Livin' Lite. They were bought out a few years ago, and then disappeared from the market shortly after being acquired by a large manufacturer. The interior aesthetics were a bit like upscale garage furnishings, though they improved over time. I think they might have had a bunkhouse layout or two. I always wondered if all that aluminum might defeat their insulation and/or promote condensation in cold weather. You'd have to research what owners say about those possible issues.

You will have to learn what you can about the alternatives and make a decision that works for you and your family. If you are okay with all these limitations we have noted above concerning the molded units, and can work with bunks for the little guys, then great. If you consider you'd prefer to have the larger size and layout of a conventional trailer, it might be something that could perhaps work out okay in a dryer, warmer climate, particularly if you have covered storage. You would probably do well to shop for a second-hand unit that 1) has been pre-depreciated, 2) has been de-bugged for the miscellaneous problems that arise, and 3) can be subjected to great scrutiny in an effort to detect any signs of leakage, such as the smell of mildew.

Final note, the aerodynamics of a larger conventional trailer will impose a substantially greater load when towing at highway speeds. There's normally a provision in your tow vehicle's owner's manual addressing the maximum "frontal area" of the trailer, so that's something to be aware of too.
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Old 07-18-2020, 01:33 PM   #12
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Hi, Looking for Recommendations for Family of Four-Bunkhouse

Good call on Livin Lite, Mike. And yes, they did have a small bunkhouse model, the 13BHB (17’ overall length with a 13’ cabin). I was looking at that one for our family, but at the time it was over budget as well as over our tow rating. Weight and budget-wise, it seems like a good fit for the OP. You’d have to find a used one, of course.
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But yes, the aluminum makes them more susceptible to heat and cold. Best built units were those made before the company was bought out, but the early units were also rather utilitarian.
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Old 07-18-2020, 03:05 PM   #13
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Here's an article on Livin' Lite's "death-by-acquisition". They made larger bunkhouses too. Maybe a good choice for Leo, maybe not, if he could even find one.

The 21' BHS was billed as coming in at 4,058 lbs dry. We looked at a couple of their smaller trailers at a local dealer some years ago, before the acquisition. I don't recall there being a lot of options to add additional cost and weight, but I may be wrong about this.

https://www.truckcampermagazine.com/...truck-campers/

Quote:
The interiors of the first CampLite truck campers were extremely sterile. Early CampLite models drew comparisons to ambulances and other industrial vehicles; a far-cry from the refined interiors of the competition.

With feedback from dealers and consumers, Scott and his team made their wood-free interiors warmer and more comfortable with each iteration. In 2010, 2011, and 2012, new and improved CampLite interiors debuted two and even three times a year. Each time they added more warmth and comfort.
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Old 07-18-2020, 03:20 PM   #14
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The Livin' Lite 21BHS - This one's 24' from hitch to bumper. Go big or go home!

This one's actually not a good choice for the Honda as the GVWR was almost 5,500 lbs. I also see that their published hitch weights ranged from 400 to 500 lbs for the 2017 models, which could mean more in the real world.

As there were apparently so many changes through the years, one would have to evaluate their trailers on a case-by-case basis.
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Old 07-25-2020, 11:01 AM   #15
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A heavy duty add-on transmission cooler is much cheaper than a transmission rebuild.

Remember: kids are extremely persistent about growing. I now have a grandson that is 6'4".
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Old 07-25-2020, 11:42 AM   #16
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Tranny

I second that, a good heavy duty Tran cooler is an easy fix. Last year a friend had one added and it did the trick.
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:08 PM   #17
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We have a 1092 Scamp 16 which was layout 4 on the Scamp web site. Lots of restoration in process. Larger rear bed since we are both 6' and 'husky.' Do 3 easily with grandkid. 4 no problem if we resotred the upper front bunk. Tows readily, but you will want the electric brakes for any tow vehicle other than a HD pickup. Safety. Older units may need a new axle - readily available. BEWARE good looking tires. Check the tire date (Google) as great looking tread is meaningless on an old tire. Lube the hubs ASAP. ENJOY!
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Old 07-30-2020, 07:06 PM   #18
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thanks for everyone's help--i went ahead and placed an order for a escape 21ne for october delivery.

i'll go ahead and get the add-on transmission cooler as well.
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Old 07-30-2020, 08:22 PM   #19
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Oh, goody. Now we get to start picking colors for you!
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Old 07-30-2020, 10:26 PM   #20
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Oh, goody. Now we get to start picking colors for you!
Ha! My 7yo son was immediately all over the interior color scheme.
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