Newbie with purchase questions.

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by JRSeguin

I have a 16 ft Scamp with a furnace. Nights in the 30's and 40's are no problemo-and the heater does not run all the time. Insulation is R-15. I would not have a problem camping lower than the 30's.

Not to sound argumentative, but a Scamp 16 does not have "R-15" insulation. Not even close. Nether does my Escape, or a Casita, or any other single hull molded fiberglass units with either a thin closed cell foam or Reflectix. Reflectix for example can only achieve an R value of 1 to 1.5 on it's own, without air space in front and behind it. Even then, the most you could hope for with such material is about 5 to 5.5.

In order to have a higher R-value, you need air space between the insulation and the interior wall, and also between the insulation and the hull - unless of course you are talking about thick foam or fiberglass batt, which is not doable on a single hull fiberglass trailer. Oliver gets around this by using double hulls with a considerable amount of insulation between them. A few others, Like Armadillo, use a much thicker wall with rigid foam.

[thrifty bill]

"Buying new might also be a possibility and would avoid most of the problems you've discussed, except for the probability of depleting my funds more than buying used"

Many lightly used recent models, say last five years or so, sell for very close to what a new unit costs. The main thing you save buying used in that case is TIME, not MONEY. You can avoid the 6 to 12 month order backlog. But I would not expect to save much money wise. Now you can see the pricing slide down at the 15 to 20 year old mark, but figure its going to have old appliances and may have other issues too.

Meanwhile, I have friends that recently bought a brand new stickie trailer. I looked up used values, and their trailer loses almost HALF of its value in just one year.

+100 Scamp's insulation value is dreamland. I am surprised this hasn't cost them money (lawsuits) over the years. No way it meets an R15 rating.

True four season molded trailers (like newer Bigfoots and Olivers) are very expensive and are typically heavy. Pricing wise, they can be double an Escape, and Escapes are not cheap. Personally I wouldn't tow more than a basic Scamp 16 with a 4 cylinder truck.

In the world of affordable RV trailers, molded FG ones are at the expensive end. They are more expensive to build, its a niche market, and all the makers have hefty backlogs. As a result, used pricing is quite strong.

[John in Santa Cruz]

the escape optional enhanced insulation is two layers of reflectix with some sort of black neoprene style foam between them, probably about 1/2" think. its *WAY* warmer inside than our Casita ever was. also way quieter, AND darker in sunlight if you block the windows (something I do at star parties so I can sleep til 11 or noon after being up to 4 or 5am stargazing).

[honda03842]

We have camped in both a Casita 16 and a Scamp 16 for about a decade. We travel all over, but particularly north. Our lowest overnight temperature was 14F. We have no special additional insulation.

This year in during ?Spring? in Newfoundland we had a number of snowy, below freezing, high wind nights without any problems. We do carry a Mr. Buddy to give a quick boost in temperature and a small electric heater. (we never run the Mr. Buddy when we're asleep.) We never run our gas furnace, just too loud for us. As well we have an electric blanket that we use most nights.

We have never had a freeze up of any kind on our Scamp other than the water hose.

Of course there's nothing wrong with double wall trailers and additional insulation but for most camping our Scamp is more than adequate. Ginny jokes that if you make a cup of tea the trailer's warm.

[Montana Brad]

So here we go with a good debate.I called Casita recently and they told me that camping in Alaska with one of their trailers was not something they would recommend.I am sure you can tweak this or that, heck you may even be able to put a thermal blanket over it.But really why would you? When you buy something new are you not hoping that you can get something well built that works for most uses?

[WaltP]

Not necessarily. If I have a choice of using an electric blanket on cold nights or spending $10k more to avoid it, guess what?

Walt

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by WaltP

Not necessarily. If I have a choice of using an electric blanket on cold nights or spending $10k more to avoid it, guess what?

Walt

I'd hate to have to run a generator to use that electric blanket when camping off grid and the sun hasn't shown in a couple days....

[WaltP]

Ah, but I'll bet Norm and Ginny have a 12v blanket, which can easily run overnight on a fully charged battery. And with 160W solar I can charge up even on cloudy days.

Of course things are very different if money's no object.

Walt

Walt

[John in Santa Cruz]

looks like 12V DC 'travel blankets' are around 50 watts give or take, so 4-5 amps. the several I looked at were fairly small, too, like 40 x 56", more like a lap blanket than a bed blanket.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Montana Brad

So he we go with a good debate.I called Casita recently and they told me that camping in Alaska with one of their trailers was not something they would recommend.I am sure you can tweak this or that, heck you may even be able to put a thermal blanket over it.But really why would you? When you buy something new are you not hoping that you can get something well built that works for most uses?

Summer in Alaska isn't that extreme, at least the parts that have roads. Many Casita-grade trailers have made the trip. Good screens and blackout shades are probably as important as the furnace...

Four season trailers come with a penalty in cost, weight, and complexity (repairing a leak is a whole lot more complicated when the tanks are enclosed, for example). A few people use an RV to engage in winter sports. For them the upgrades are worth it. If you fit this category, your choices are limited because the market is limited.

The vast majority of RV owners use them mainly in temperate weather- north in summer and south in winter. For those buyers, winter packages simply add cost and fuel-wasting weight. Ordinary trailers can, with some minor inconvenience, weather short spells of below-freezing weather. As oft quipped, every travel trailer comes standard with a very effective climate control system: wheels.

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by Montana Brad

So here we go with a good debate.I called Casita recently and they told me that camping in Alaska with one of their trailers was not something they would recommend.I am sure you can tweak this or that, heck you may even be able to put a thermal blanket over it.But really why would you? When you buy something new are you not hoping that you can get something well built that works for most uses?

Obviously those Casita guys are clueless about Alaska. I just got home from a month long trip to Alaska. Scamp, Casita, Escape, etc. I saw them all. Many of the campgrounds close down after Labor Day. I’ve camped in a lot colder weather in the lower 48. Now if I bought a Casita I’d pay for a furnace (it’s an option). I camped in several spots without electric hookup and I regularly used the propane furnace at night. Now if you want to camp in AK in the winter the bigger challenge would be getting there.


Jon nailed it: to most, a four season trailer is just a lot of added cost and weight. People tend to travel where the climate is mild and comfortable: north in the summer, south in the winter. Sure I have camped in below freezing temperatures, but I am not interested in the super cold, or super hot weather either. We adjust our routing when we get into those situations.

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

Obviously those Casita guys are clueless about Alaska. I just got home from a month long trip to Alaska. Scamp, Casita, Escape, etc. I saw them all. Many of the campgrounds close down after Labor Day. I’ve camped in a lot colder weather in the lower 48.

I agree, they are kind of clueless about Alaska. They are in the heat of Texas after all, and many folks here who've never been to Alaska think of it as nothing but frozen white Arctic. I recall being on a business trip to Alaska a few years ago where the temperature in Anchorage was actually higher than at home in San Antonio. Alaska is a glorious place to camp, in a Casita, a Scamp an Escape, or whatever you have. I just wouldn't do it in my Escape in winter, that's all.

We've camped in our 19 with lows in the teens without winterizing or any special precautions other than disconnecting the water hose. The furnace is a bit of a roar but it sure makes it toasty.