Towing Capacity Question

[Phil E]

I'm trying to decide between a Casita 17' and a Scamp 16' but the towing vehicle might be the deciding factor. We have a 2015 Kia Sorrento, v6, with a towing capacity of 3500 pounds. It's not a 4WD but has good pep. I was leaning toward the Casita, but it appears the Casita, while still under 2500 pounds, might be significantly heavier than the Scamp. Do I need to be concerned? Any recommendations?

[John in Santa Cruz]

a Casita 17 has 3500 lb GWR, and when folks have weighed them, they usually come in pretty close to that. a full water tank might be 230 lbs, and I find myself traveling with water more often than not as I'm often heading to dry camping where I won't be able to fill up. I don't think a similarly equipped scamp 16 is *that* much lighter.

I would not want to regularly tow a 3500 lb trailer with a 3500 lb capacity vehicle, once in a while for short distances, sure.

your sorrento, whats its payload capacity? I saw numbers like 5000 lb GVWR, and minimum curb weight of 3800 lbs, so that leaves max 1200 lbs payload total figure the 3500lb casita, about 400-500 lbs of that will be sitting on the hitch off your back bumper, and taken out of your vehicle payload, so if we figure 500 lb tongue weight, thats 700 lbs remaining payload. a couple 'plus size' adults, and that leaves you with only 200-300 lbs of cargo for everything else....

[Pville211]

Also, "max" means "do not exceed." Being at capacity does not mean optimal, or not scary on downhill slopes, nor stable in crosswinds or when getting passed by 18-wheelers. The more your tow vehicle capacity exceeds the trailer GVWR, the better.

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Phil E

I'm trying to decide between a Casita 17' and a Scamp 16' but the towing vehicle might be the deciding factor. We have a 2015 Kia Sorrento, v6, with a towing capacity of 3500 pounds. It's not a 4WD but has good pep. I was leaning toward the Casita, but it appears the Casita, while still under 2500 pounds, might be significantly heavier than the Scamp. Do I need to be concerned? Any recommendations?

You will be over the acceptable hitch weight with the Casita 17. Average is around 418 lbs, 3296 for overall weight.

I have friends that towed a Scamp 16 to Alaska & back with a Toyota Sienna. Average tongue weight 254 lbs, overall weight 2549 lbs. Only problems they had was low ground clearance, and spinning front wheels on gravel hills in campgrounds.

Averages from the spreadsheet version of Trailer Weights in the Real World.

[ColoradoSwany]

Our 2005 16’ Scamp weighed about 2350 pounds loaded. The first season we owned it, we towed with a Mazda MPV with a 3,000 pound capacity. It did ok, not great. Replaced Mazda with a 5,000 pound rated Highlander and barely noticed the Scamp. I’ve noted many posts over the last few years that commented on the heavy tongue weight of Casitas. That can be an issue with some tugs. My opinion, worthless as it may be, is that your vehicle would do adequately or maybe just fine with a Scamp, but would likely be marginal with a Casita. There is a web site that is something like “real world fiberglass rv weights” that gives several examples of real weights of molded fiberglass trailers of different owners. There are links to it on this gorum if you do a search.

[John in Santa Cruz]

those 2300 lb loaded scamp 16's, are those models without a bath, so no black tank etc ?

[Phil E]

I love this forum. So helpful! Thanks for the comments thus far. It looks like we'd need to go with the Scamp, more than likely.

[Byron Kinnaman]

To compare you need to look at what a fully loaded trailer weight is. The below link will give you an idea of camping weight. That's the important weight including tongue weight. Here is the LINK

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Phil E

I love this forum. So helpful! Thanks for the comments thus far. It looks like we'd need to go with the Scamp, more than likely.

I tow a 13' Scamp with a Honda Pilot V6 2WD, rated 3500/350, similar tor your vehicle. I concur with the consensus. It would be good for a 16' Scamp, but there's no way I'd tow a 17' Casita with it. Tongue weight is the big reason, typically north of 400 pounds. But I also like a little more margin on the trailer weight to allow for people and gear (tow ratings are based on 2 people and no additional cargo in the vehicle).

With a small trailer, the tow vehicle ends up taking some of the overflow.

[John in Santa Cruz]

most of these crossovers and cars, I'm not seeing a spec for GCWR, which is the gross COMBINED weight rating, eg the trailer + tow vehicle as loaded.

for many rigs, this GCWR is *LESS* than the GVWR + max trailer weight - tongue weight.

[floyd]

When an item is subjected to weight beyond its capacity it will break by definition, just as an item subjected to volume beyond its capacity will overflow, by definition.
Ratings are limits placed on items based on various criteria such as engineering, liability,and several other subjective or even arbitrary parameters.


In an attempt to make comparisons possible, the industry has now come up with tow ratings based on common criteria.
J2807 standards are somewhat arbitrary and contain some elements which result in contradictions for the companies who subscribe to them.


If possible, compare the tow ratings for your Sorrento for those for the same vehicle before and after J2807.
Since the advent of J2807, the real rating limitation has tended to shift from overall trailer weight to tongue weight since they arbitrarily set nearly all of the tongue weights to an inadequate 10% of tow rating which must be a consideration when choosing what to tow with what.



Realistically, there is a significant difference between towing a Casita17 and a Scamp16. If you suspect you are marginal and you wish to choose one of these two trailers... Opt for the Scamp.
In addition to the overall weight difference, the Casita has significantly more tongue weight ...which could further complicate rating compliance.

[redbarron55]

Originally Posted by floyd

When an item is subjected to weight beyond its capacity it will break by definition, just as an item subjected to volume beyond its capacity will overflow, by definition.
Ratings are limits placed on items based on various criteria such as engineering, liability,and several other subjective or even arbitrary parameters.


In an attempt to make comparisons possible, the industry has now come up with tow ratings based on common criteria.
J2807 standards are somewhat arbitrary and contain some elements which result in contradictions for the companies who subscribe to them.


If possible, compare the tow ratings for your Sorrento for those for the same vehicle before and after J2807.
Since the advent of J2807, the real rating limitation has tended to shift from overall trailer weight to tongue weight since they arbitrarily set nearly all of the tongue weights to an inadequate 10% of tow rating which must be a consideration when choosing what to tow with what.



Realistically, there is a significant difference between towing a Casita17 and a Scamp16. If you suspect you are marginal and you wish to choose one of these two trailers... Opt for the Scamp.
In addition to the overall weight difference, the Casita has significantly more tongue weight ...which could further complicate rating compliance.

Actually the standard calls for stability tests as well as the towing ratings up the big hot Davis dam road.
The stability tests are required to be made at that 10% to verify stability at that weight balance.
It is a comprehensive standard and on some vehicles it requires the factory trailer module and wiring, not dealer installed after the sale.
Most of the vehicles ratings after the standard are lower than before due the rigorous requirements like the tow up the Davis Dam road at 100*f + with the AC on full blast etc.
With some manufacturers the electronic trailer stabilization is a requirement and can only be installed at the factory so be sure to check with someone knowledgeable. Most dealers haven't a clue about towing even with the vehicles that they sell.
Here is a brief explanation of the standard
SAE J2807 Tow Tests
A more details list of testing and requirements can be found here:
http://fifthwheelst.com/documents/to...ds-2016-02.pdf

[Carl Pa]

In 2014 I bought 16' scamp front bath. Already had my TV, 2012 rav4, v6, tow pkg. Was looking at casita, escape, parkliner, L'll snoozy. Went with scamp because of weight. Glad I did. Carl

[John in Santa Cruz]

why are the scamp 16's lighter than a similarly equipped casita 16? they are both the same approximate size, with similar features... I mean, I can certainly understand a basic (no bath) 16 being lighter htan a deluxe 17, or whatever.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

why are the scamp 16's lighter than a similarly equipped casita 16? they are both the same approximate size, with similar features... I mean, I can certainly understand a basic (no bath) 16 being lighter htan a deluxe 17, or whatever.

The OP is comparing the Scamp16 and the Casita17

[Carl Pa]

Originally Posted by floyd

The OP is comparing the Scamp16 and the Casita17

I think it is because how or where the axle is located which causes a se-saw situation. Carl

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Carl Pa

I think it is because how or where the axle is located which causes a se-saw situation. Carl

My comment #15 (which you quoted) was only in response to John's post #14 as it relates to Post#1.

To what See-Saw situation are you referring?

[ColoradoSwany]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

those 2300 lb loaded scamp 16's, are those models without a bath, so no black tank etc ?

John, our Scamp was the side dinette with front bath model. I agree with other comments that the biggest and most critical difference is tongue weight.

[Roger C H]

A good reference:

Trailer Towing Guides | How Much Can You Pull | How to tow safely | www.trailerlife.com


Hmm. I read
Casita std 16' dry wt 1970#
Casita std 17' dry wt 2210#
Scamp 16' dry wt 1750-2000#

Looks like any one would be fine.

Hitch is about 3' so the body would be length -3'. Therefore a
17' Casita (14' body) 2210/14=158#/ft
16' Casita (13' body) 1970/13=151#/ft
16' Scamp (13' bpdy) 1750/13-134-153#/ft
Pretty close. Longer would need to be slightly heavier frame, etc.

[John in Santa Cruz]

pretty sure my 16 SD is a few 100 lbs heavier than that when dry. those might be for the non-deluxe model.