trclk1

[trclk1]

We are picking up our new 13' scamp at the factory in January. Can't believe how long time e had to wait to get it. Factory running behind. We are towing with a 2015 cx9 Mazda. Wanted a 16' but we can only tow 2,000 lbs and they say 16' too heavy even though their brochure says 16' weighs 1750-2000. Anyone have any experience towing a few hundred over???

[Bob Miller]

Don't look here for overlimit towing support.

There are a few (4-5) that might endorse the idea, they seem to belong to what I refer to as the "I did it, so therefore it's safe" or the "Towing limits are a conspiracy to sell trucks" groups, but there are perhaps thousands that don't agree.. As you are new here, I suggest that you use the search function to find the 1000's of posts on this topic.

If 2000 lbs. is the upper limit, you really don't want to be at that limit, much less over the limit. The figure Scamp gives for a 16' Scamp is without the 400-500 lbs. of "stuff" you will add.

There is a listing of "Real World" trailer weights in the General Chat forum that shows that 16' Scamps weigh 2400 to 2800 lbs. when ready to go.
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...rld-43010.html

Add to that, overweight towing may have an impact on your new car warranty.

In other words, "Fergetit"


BTW: Put a thread topic in the topic line. using your handle almost looks like a spam post.

[Jon in AZ]

A Mazda CX-9 can tow up to 3500 pounds if properly equipped. Usually that means a towing package of some sort. Have you tried to find out what is in the package and whether it can be retrofitted to your vehicle?

At the very least, towing that close to your current rated capacity of 2000 pounds, I'd look into adding an ATF cooler to protect your transmission.

When we first got our 13' Scamp we had a Sienna van, rated 2000 pounds without the factory tow package (3500 with, but ours didn't). We were under 2000 pounds loaded, but still overheated the tranny climbing a steep grade against a headwind. Electronic nannies prevented damage, but we spent a tense 45 minutes on the side of a busy interstate waiting for it to cool down. Lesson learned.

[Mary F]

Hi, John! Glad to see you (finally) got here!! Congrats on your new Scamp. Just be glad the wait isn't as long as the lines on an Escape. (They're running a year+ out, for now!)

I think what Bob's trying to say is you should check out our "Towing" section, as your question gets addressed fairly often. (You can probably just browse the listed topics, if you don't want to try the search function.) The "Trailer Weights in the Read World" thread is also an excellent reference.

We're glad you found us - you'll learn a lot and reading here will help pass the time 'til January's delivery!

[MC1]

Originally Posted by trclk1

We are picking up our new 13' scamp at the factory in January. Can't believe how long time e had to wait to get it. Factory running behind. We are towing with a 2015 cx9 Mazda. Wanted a 16' but we can only tow 2,000 lbs and they say 16' too heavy even though their brochure says 16' weighs 1750-2000. Anyone have any experience towing a few hundred over???

Nice trailer and very nice TV! Congratulations!

Exceeding any towing recommendations is a slippery slope but in some cases it is possible, doable, and safe. Many of us have the support of professional towing specialists who evaluate the proposed combination and build from their knowledge base. It is always a good thing to get professional advice from various sources.

PS.. performance based vehicles like your CX9 tend to make for outstanding TV's. Get it set up right and enjoy the ride.

[David Tilston]

Bob's estimate of four to five who endorse towing over the published tow limit is likely a bit low, but Bob likes rules, and many agree with him. Others think that tow limits are a marketing ploy to sell larger vehicles.

In my OPINION, a few hundred pounds over is likely not going to cause a problem, as long as you compensate by being extra cautious. But a few thousand pounds over may cause problems.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

A Mazda CX-9 can tow up to 3500 pounds if properly equipped. Usually that means a towing package of some sort. Have you tried to find out what is in the package and whether it can be retrofitted to your vehicle?

At the very least, towing that close to your current rated capacity, I'd look into adding an ATF cooler to protect your transmission.

When we first got our 13' Scamp we had a Sienna van, rated 2000 pounds without the factory tow package (3500 with). We were under 2000 pounds loaded, but still overheated the tranny climbing a steep grade against a headwind. Electronic nannies prevented damage, but we spent a tense 45 minutes on the side of a busy interstate waiting for it to cool down. Lesson learned.

Here is a link for the 2015 Mazda but, only IF it has the factory towing package, a higher limit applies than that mentioned.

And I forgot to mention, there is a tiny group of mostly Airstream owners, and exactly ONE Airstream dealer, in Canada, that consider themselves exempt from respecting manufacturers towing limits. Sooooo.. If you are in Canada, have a lot of $$$ for a custom hitch installation, have no concern about other possible issues, and have no fears of the litigious American court system, that may be an option that few others will consider. So, add one more to that tiny group....

[Carol H]

I towed a couple of hundred pounds UNDER for a number of years and in the end paid dearly for it in excessive wear and tear on the vehicle even though I tried to be very nice to the vehicle when towing by keeping it as light as I could and choosing routes with the lest elevation gains etc.

BTW the 1750-2000lbs that Scamp quotes for the 16' is known as a Dry Weight and it does not include optional items such as awnings, screen doors, ac, fridge, bathroom, hot water tank etc. My 16' lightly loaded with no AC weighs in at between 2500 and 2600lbs - with no water in the tanks. I have been present for the weighing of a couple of other Scamp 16's that came in closer to 2800lbs when loaded.

As suggest the Trailer Weights in the Real World thread is a great place to get a reality check on what you can expect a trailer to weigh once loaded for camping.

Unfortunately the list on Real World thread is a little light on 13' Scamps and Boler's (same as the Scamp) but we have a lot of Bolers in these parts and I am aware of a number of them that have weighed in at over 2000lbs once loaded up as well.

[The Minimalist]

Originally Posted by MC1

Exceeding any towing recommendations is a slippery slope but in some cases it is possible, doable, and safe. Many of us have the support of professional towing specialists who evaluate the proposed combination and build from their knowledge base. It is always a good thing to get professional advice from various sources.

MC1: Not to put you on the spot, I'm just seeking clarification.

Please define 'professional towing specialists'. Does it require specialist training and certification to be a professional? Towing is a broad term. Where is his expertise; 5 foot utility trailers, over the road heavy haulers?

The suggestion that it is good to get 'professional advice from various sources' seems to imply that the opinions of some may be suspect, and how are we, the non-professionals, to know which to trust.

[The Minimalist]

Carol: Is there a post you could direct us to in which you describe the under weight towing experience and the resultant damage to the TV? I'm very interested in knowing how this came about and what kind of damage did you experience.

Thanks.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by trclk1

We are picking up our new 13' scamp at the factory in January. Can't believe how long time e had to wait to get it. Factory running behind. We are towing with a 2015 cx9 Mazda. Wanted a 16' but we can only tow 2,000 lbs and they say 16' too heavy even though their brochure says 16' weighs 1750-2000. Anyone have any experience towing a few hundred over???

The lightest 16Scamp is likely lighter than the heaviest 13Scamp. Make your choice... a little more room or a few more options. Both tow remarkably well. We have a 13Scamp deluxe and would not even consider a trade for a 16.

Tow ratings are immutable, tow capacity is not.
It is important to know honestly what your driving and towing habits are or will be.
It is important to know what criteria were used in establishing the tow rating of your particular vehicle.
In many cases, the identical chassis will have a lower tow rating due only to choice of engine and/or transmission.

There is no substitute for education, common sense, and responsible behavior.
I know many persons who could not be trusted to drive my truck or tow my Scamp,even though they possess all the needed credentials and the equipment exceeds all all ratings and capacities.

[The Minimalist]

Originally Posted by floyd

There is no substitute for education, common sense, and responsible behavior.

Hear, hear!

[floyd]

Originally Posted by trclk1

We are picking up our new 13' scamp at the factory in January. Can't believe how long time e had to wait to get it. Factory running behind. We are towing with a 2015 cx9 Mazda. Wanted a 16' but we can only tow 2,000 lbs and they say 16' too heavy even though their brochure says 16' weighs 1750-2000. Anyone have any experience towing a few hundred over???

This is the stated towing package content for a front wheel drive 2015 Mazda CX9....

Towing Prep Package (FWD only)

• - Heavy-duty transmission oil cooler and radiator fan
• - Revised engine control module

(FWD GT models with Technology Package or Rear-Seat Entertainment Package only, standard on AWD models)

Easy fix if you are concerned.
Of course, a hitch and a Prodigy would be nice!

[MC1]

Originally Posted by The Minimalist

MC1: Not to put you on the spot, I'm just seeking clarification.

Please define 'professional towing specialists'. Does it require specialist training and certification to be a professional? Towing is a broad term. Where is his expertise; 5 foot utility trailers, over the road heavy haulers?

The suggestion that it is good to get 'professional advice from various sources' seems to imply that the opinions of some may be suspect, and how are we, the non-professionals, to know which to trust.

Sure, be glad to comment. Floyd in post #11 has a good start with appropriate info. I can add that in our neck of the woods we have a number of highly respected Rv dealers that have many years of towing and TV set up knowledge under their belts.

M'Phails, Rustins, Can AM, and more. These shops have a reputation for getting the rigs set up right.

Newbies do have it tough. I agree. How do they know where to get the good advice and workmanship?? Research, word of mouth, info from folks who are willing to share their experiences and go from there.

[Bob Miller]

From Post #5... "Exceeding any towing recommendations is a slippery slope but in some cases it is possible, doable, and safe."


Are you saying that all three of the RV dealerships you mentioned are experienced, qualified and willing to fulfill the above quote and set up tow vehicles to tow in excess of their manufacturers printed limits?


If so, I think that is three more reputable shops than I think one would will find in the entire United States willing to do so.


As this is an oft suggested issue I have informally asked of this in the several RV shops I frequent, the common comment about setting up a vehicle to tow over limits is "Are You Nuts".


Needless to say, I consider all of these sources to be fully qualified in the set up of towing rigs within the specifications of the vehicle.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by The Minimalist

Carol: Is there a post you could direct us to in which you describe the under weight towing experience and the resultant damage to the TV? I'm very interested in knowing how this came about and what kind of damage did you experience.

Thanks.

In my situation I had previously owned two of the same make and model of vehicle and had few wear and tear issues come up on either of the them which had far more miles on them than the one I towed A LOT with & had lots of unexpected wear and tear issues with. Examples of the issues were all the axle boots and power steering boots had to be replaced - not once but twice by the time the car had 60,000 miles on it. Most probable heat related according to two different mechanics who worked on it - neither worked for the auto manufacturer. The trailer has good new brakes and they are adjusted correctly at least once a year often twice and I have a good brake controller that is set up and adjusted each and every time I head out - yet I went through brakes on the vehicle way faster than ever experienced on any car prior. Also replaced axle bearings and a head gasket. Just to name a few issues. ;-)

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by David Tilston

Others think that tow limits are a marketing ploy to sell larger vehicles.

.

The good news is that now that the majority of auto makers are using the same agreed to test standard for establishing tow limits that old theory has pretty well gone the way of the the Dodo bird.

[Jon in AZ]

How so, Carol? As far as can see it just sets a minimum performance standard for a tow rating to prevent over-rating. Nothing I've seen in the standard would prevent a manufacturer from down-rating a vehicle. Could be a conspiracy to sell larger vehicles, or merely an engineering decision that some aspect of the vehicle's design unrelated to any of the performance tests was not suited to a higher rating.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Carol H

In my situation I had previously owned two of the same make and model of vehicle and had few wear and tear issues come up on either of the them which had far more miles on them than the one I towed A LOT with & had lots of unexpected wear and tear issues with. Examples of the issues were all the axle boots and power steering boots had to be replaced - not once but twice by the time the car had 60,000 miles on it. Most probable heat related according to two different mechanics who worked on it - neither worked for the auto manufacturer. The trailer has good new brakes and they are adjusted correctly at least once a year often twice and I have a good brake controller that is set up and adjusted each and every time I head out - yet I went through brakes on the vehicle way faster than ever experienced on any car prior. Also replaced axle bearings and a head gasket. Just to name a few issues. ;-)

In contrast our 93 Nissan van had over 450,000klm's on it, towed a pop up and then the dual axle TT for years and the 17 year old van only needed tie rod ends other than regular maintenance items. It had original CV/PS boots as well as wheel bearings. Sounds like your vehicle was a lemon.

A guy I knew a few years back towed a 5,500lb TT with a full size Dodge Ram V8. He was well under the tow rating. Almost every part on the vehicle was replaced in the 5 years he owned it. 10's of thousand dollars worth of parts. A lemon!

Every vehicle has it's own plus and minus's and luck has a lot to do with how well the reliability goes.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by MC1

Every vehicle has it's own plus and minus's and luck has a lot to do with how well the reliability goes.

It has often been said...
Luck is a matter of preparation meeting opportunity.
or...
Success is simply a matter of luck...ask any failure!