What trailer to buy? - Page 8 - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-05-2017, 07:45 PM   #141
Senior Member
 
roguebooks's Avatar
 
Name: Michael
Trailer: Oliver Travel Trailer
Florida
Posts: 135
more rat fur and marine carpet

Of the used FG trailers available for sale out there do all of them have either the rat fur of a Scamp or the marine carpeting found in a Casita? Do any have a different coating or wall covering other than the fuzz (excluding Oliver of course)?
roguebooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 07:46 PM   #142
Senior Member
 
Civilguy's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Trailer: Escape 21 & Jeep GC 5.7 (Previous 2012 Casita FD17 & 2010 Audi Q5)
Puget Sound, WA
Posts: 1,679
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguebooks View Post
Mr. Mike Civil,
Thank you for all the tips and help you give me. I am frustrated today. Oliver has let me down on many levels. No way am I spending that much cash and have all the problems I read about on the Ollie forum. It might be a blessing in disguise learning all this stuff so fast.
Michael,

"George" posted this in 2012 on another forum:

"I have come to the conclusion that most of what is manufactured by this industry is, in effect a "kit"......kinda like, "some assembly required". The folks that seem to be the happiest are those who like to tinker and really have a lot of "pride in ownership". There is always something to be tweaked, adjusted, fixed or modified. Great fun if you like doing all that, maybe less so if you simply want something that is turn key 100% reliable. And it does not seem to matter which end of the price spectrum you are buying. Go hang out on the Air Forum ( Airstream ) and you will hear those owners talking about the same issues that is cussed and discussed over on the funfinder ( my choice ) forum."

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/f...print/true.cfm

I bookmarked that one as I thought it so true. RV's do not get the same engineering, design, materials, products or supply chains as cars. I've read various times what it cost just to engineer a new engine and all I can say for sure is that it was some incredibly high figure. RV's are not like that.

A car door is designed to guide water strategically. The water that runs down the window glass enters the door and is channeled out at the bottom. Gutters over the doors and large, bulbous weather seals carefully mounted to precisely formed sheet metal fend off the rest. They are tested in wind tunnels. Trunk lids and rear hatches operate similarly; large, lightly compressed bulbous seals are held above the areas where the water is channeled to.

The closest thing I have ever seen in RV construction was an exterior luggage door on a 2017 Airstream video where the luggage door latch actually compressed a similarly large bulb seal. Other than that, I really haven't seen anything like this in RV construction. And, admittedly, my experience and budget are both limited.

Consequent to your looking at the Ollie, I text searched "broke" on the Ollie forum the other night and quickly scanned some posts. I actually thought the problems cited were pretty limited. And it sounded like Ollie was doing a great job of addressing the issues. Perhaps this reflects my expectations. Maybe I didn't see some of the things you saw.

If your expectations are some product that would have reliability and quality in accord with what we expect of motor vehicles today, I honestly don't think it truly exists. At least not at "reasonable" price points, whatever that is. In broad terms, the industry's ingrained practices are miles from the automotive industries. Here's another of many articles in that vein.

Living Stingy: The RV Industry's Dirty Litle Secret: Quality

Given all the above, I suggest you would be happiest spending at a level that would not leave you expecting something like near-perfection. I think that Scamp, Escape and Casita as established players in this niche do a good job for the money they charge. Not perfect mind you, but what is? It appears from reports that they make good on delivering and backing up their products. Parkliner and Snoozy are both under new management and also getting good reports. The folks building the Trilliums have been very slow to deliver what apparently are pretty sweet little trailers.

Airstream may get Robert Johan's baby out to production one day. Hey! This link says 2018:

https://www.airstream.com/nest/

In any event, I think you have been travelling fast on your search, expecting that there is some "product" to be simply selected and purchased that will simply "work". In my opinion, and with all due respect to both you and the industry at large, I just don't think that this is how it works. At least not at the price point that I have been willing to spend.

But, if you'd like to consider what is in effect a "kit", well, now you're talking!
__________________
~ “It’s absurd to divide people into good and bad.
People are either charming or tedious.” Oscar Wilde ~

Civilguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 08:26 PM   #143
Senior Member
 
roguebooks's Avatar
 
Name: Michael
Trailer: Oliver Travel Trailer
Florida
Posts: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol and Mike View Post
There have been a couple of threads on the Oliver Forum recently where owners talked about issues they have had. I was one of those that posted the issues we've had since we picked up last May. None were major and they did not affect our use - we've done 20K miles in the last 12 months. My purpose was to note that all issues were addressed quickly and resolved and that we were very happy with our Oliver. Other owners that posted had the same bottom line. Factory support is outstanding. Mike
We still like the Oliver Elite the best of all we have seen. But at this high price point I was not expecting to see the level of problems present in the posts. I prided myself while in construction business in not having a punch list as I paid attention to details. But I was a rare bird and never made the money I could have had I let things slide by. I admit to holding Oliver to a higher standard than the norm because they advertise to that effect. And charge for it. So we shall see. Thanks.
roguebooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 08:37 PM   #144
Senior Member
 
Raspy's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: Black Series HQ19
Smith Valley, Nevada
Posts: 2,486
Following up on Mr Lynn's and Mike and Carols posts.

There have been some odd assembly issues with Oliver lately. Annoying ones too. But if there was another list, a list of items that are much better than I've ever seen anywhere else, the comparison would be overwhelming. A few maddening bad items and a long list of very very nice items. I'm sure Oliver is very embarrassed and doing their best to refine the assembly process. Meanwhile, the design itself has a lot of advantages.

I wasn't interested in re-building an older trailer, or having to, again, deal with poor quality issues that are so prevalent in conventional trailers. I also found out there really was no warrantee on my Fleetwood, and the attitude went from nice to mean as soon as the paperwork was done. Then I was on my own and mad. Then I began to literally watch my Thor fall apart on one desert trip.

I hope you find the right one for you.
__________________
I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt.
Raspy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 08:54 PM   #145
Senior Member
 
Glenn Baglo's Avatar
 
Name: Glenn ( second 'n' is silent )
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
British Columbia
Posts: 7,732
Escape uses a vinyl product that is easy to clean.
Attached Thumbnails
Blinds.jpg  
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
Glenn Baglo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:28 PM   #146
Senior Member
 
rbryan's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Trailer: 2015 Escape 19 "Past Tents" 2018 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB SuperCrew
Arkansas
Posts: 1,298
Registry
This thread was an interesting read. Yes, it all comes down to taste, but it should also come down to function. If a layout doesn't work for you, the appearance won't make a bit of difference. My only advice would be to think about how you are going to use it, day in and day out. Then, determine which one is the best value for YOUR needs. For me, value encompasses alot of different things and price is only one of them.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
rbryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:29 PM   #147
Senior Member
 
Raspy's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: Black Series HQ19
Smith Valley, Nevada
Posts: 2,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo View Post
Escape uses a vinyl product that is easy to clean.
Glenn,

How are Escapes insulated? I see single wall construction and a vinyl interior wall. Is there insulation behind the wall treatment and in the floor somehow?
__________________
I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt.
Raspy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:38 PM   #148
Senior Member
 
rbryan's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Trailer: 2015 Escape 19 "Past Tents" 2018 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB SuperCrew
Arkansas
Posts: 1,298
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspy View Post
Glenn,

How are Escapes insulated? I see single wall construction and a vinyl interior wall. Is there insulation behind the wall treatment and in the floor somehow?
Not Glenn, but I can answer. Prior to the new 2nd Generation Escapes, the insulation was Reflectix. With the introduction of the 2nd Gen, Escape changed to a foam sheet insulation, which is similar to the foam used in packing material, albeit a little thicker. The new insulation material does a better job than the Reflectix did. In certain areas of the shell, they still use Reflectix also, but that is mainly for its heat reflective properties, and is in very specific areas, like behind the fridge.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
rbryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:46 PM   #149
Senior Member
 
rbryan's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Trailer: 2015 Escape 19 "Past Tents" 2018 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB SuperCrew
Arkansas
Posts: 1,298
Registry
Click image for larger version

Name:	tapatalk_1496724104989.jpeg
Views:	32
Size:	55.6 KB
ID:	107024

Here's a photo I lifted from the Escape forum that shows a unit under construction with some of the foam and Reflectix still exposed.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
rbryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:47 PM   #150
Senior Member
 
Raspy's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: Black Series HQ19
Smith Valley, Nevada
Posts: 2,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan View Post
Not Glenn, but I can answer. Prior to the new 2nd Generation Escapes, the insulation was Reflectix. With the introduction of the 2nd Gen, Escape changed to a foam sheet insulation, which is similar to the foam used in packing material, albeit a little thicker. The new insulation material does a better job than the Reflectix did. In certain areas of the shell, they still use Reflectix also, but that is mainly for its heat reflective properties, and is in very specific areas, like behind the fridge.
Still not understanding how it is applied and how the interior finish fits over it. Are the walls flexible because of the insulation behind vinyl? From the pictures it looks like there are hard molded pieces that fit here and there to make a ceiling.

How is it done in the floor? Under, between the floor and the shell?

Thanks for the picture.
__________________
I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt.
Raspy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:52 PM   #151
Senior Member
 
rbryan's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Trailer: 2015 Escape 19 "Past Tents" 2018 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB SuperCrew
Arkansas
Posts: 1,298
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspy View Post
Still not understanding how it is applied and how the interior finish fits over it. Are the walls flexible because of the insulation behind vinyl? From the pictures it looks like there are hard molded pieces that fit here and there to make a ceiling.

How is it done in the floor? Under, between the floor and the shell?
The walls have some "cushion" because of the insulation, but I wouldn't call them flexible.

The vinyl wall covering goes over the insulation. It's water resistant and easy to clean. The "hard" mounting points you describe have to do with a difference in how Escapes are built vs other single hull fiberglass trailers. Escape fiberglasses into the interior shell some wood support struts and mounting blocks in various locations. It's these glassed in supports that interior cabinetry and fixtures are attached to, instead of using rivets through the shell. Even the halves of the trailer are fiberglassed together before taken out of the mold, so it's really a one piece shell. The belly band is just cosmetic.

The floor consists of plywood, but it's completely encased in fiberglass. There are voids under it, which are part of the bottom half mold, to allow any water to collect and drain out. Can't rot, can't warp.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
rbryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 11:09 PM   #152
Senior Member
 
Glenn Baglo's Avatar
 
Name: Glenn ( second 'n' is silent )
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
British Columbia
Posts: 7,732
What Robert said.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
Glenn Baglo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 11:25 PM   #153
Senior Member
 
Raspy's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: Black Series HQ19
Smith Valley, Nevada
Posts: 2,486
Thanks for the explanation.
__________________
I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt.
Raspy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 06:07 AM   #154
Senior Member
 
Paul O.'s Avatar
 
Name: Paul
Trailer: '04 Scamp 19D, TV:Tacoma 4.0L 4door, SB
Colorado
Posts: 1,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan View Post
...
The floor consists of plywood, but it's completely encased in fiberglass. There are voids under it, which are part of the bottom half mold, to allow any water to collect and drain out. Can't rot, can't warp.
I like your camper name "past tents"! I am tempted to plagiarize it.

But I beg to differ on the potential for rotting of the floor. If you have a big flood once per year, it drains out and you allow it to dry, that is fine. If you have a minor leak somewhere, internal or external, and it just maintains the right amount of moisture, you may not notice, but the mold spores will, and they will sprout.
Paul O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 09:41 AM   #155
Senior Member
 
Civilguy's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Trailer: Escape 21 & Jeep GC 5.7 (Previous 2012 Casita FD17 & 2010 Audi Q5)
Puget Sound, WA
Posts: 1,679
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguebooks View Post
Don't really want propane as I exclusively grill veggies, fish, and meat with charcoal. We eat mostly whole foods anyway.

Wouldn't mind a trailer being all-electric.
Propane is basically a very compact, portable supply of energy. The energy contained in a 20-lb cylinder dwarfs the energy contained in even a very large RV battery array.

I consider operating our 3-way refrigerator on propane to be one of the "great things" about our trailer. I have seen reports of four weeks of use and more on a single 20-lb propane cylinder under summer conditions. Propane is highly portable, readily available and not dreadfully expensive, so offers several advantages.

As to the ventilation problems I have mentioned with refrigerator units about 4 cu ft and smaller, the primary problems seem to be the limited ventilation provided by the upper "wall-mounted" vent, and improper installations which don't maintain the proper spacing and baffling between the trailer wall and the back of the fridge. Many others have preceded us in identifying repairs and upgrades to improve these issues. There are several key threads on this and the Casita forums that address how to resolve this issue.

I have a pair of $16 12VDC fans and a $9 PWM drive awaiting installation before our scheduled July trip to eastern Washington. On the other hand, larger refrigerators that vent through the roof of the trailer seem to perform much better from what I have read.

I think the best alternative in RV refrigeration is a 12VDC compressor type such as the Engel brand. Owners seem to be very enthusiastic about them. They are much more efficient than ammonia-style RV refrigerators, so require much less energy to operate. You can read more about them online.

However, going all-electric ideally would mean not becoming generator dependent, at least not in many folks' opinions. The steady hum of generators and the suggestion of exhaust odors in the air is a divisive subject among campers and RVers. An alternative is to start looking at solar. It's practical for this purpose as refrigeration requires far less energy than air conditioning would.

So, there's lots to think about. Personally, I am grateful for forums like this where I continue to learn from those much more experienced than me.
__________________
~ “It’s absurd to divide people into good and bad.
People are either charming or tedious.” Oscar Wilde ~

Civilguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 10:18 AM   #156
Senior Member
 
Name: bill
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19; 1977 Trillium 1300
The Mountains of North Carolina
Posts: 3,821
Registry
+10 No propane = eliminates most efficient source of heat and refrigeration when boondocking. Cooking is really a side benefit.

Also, we can all debate the "is it safe to run propane frig while towing", but it is very efficient then too.
thrifty bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 10:34 AM   #157
Senior Member
 
roguebooks's Avatar
 
Name: Michael
Trailer: Oliver Travel Trailer
Florida
Posts: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Civilguy View Post
Propane is basically a very compact, portable supply of energy. The energy contained in a 20-lb cylinder dwarfs the energy contained in even a very large RV battery array.

I consider operating our 3-way refrigerator on propane to be one of the "great things" about our trailer. I have seen reports of four weeks of use and more on a single 20-lb propane cylinder under summer conditions. Propane is highly portable, readily available and not dreadfully expensive, so offers several advantages.

As to the ventilation problems I have mentioned with refrigerator units about 4 cu ft and smaller, the primary problems seem to be the limited ventilation provided by the upper "wall-mounted" vent, and improper installations which don't maintain the proper spacing and baffling between the trailer wall and the back of the fridge. Many others have preceded us in identifying repairs and upgrades to improve these issues. There are several key threads on this and the Casita forums that address how to resolve this issue.

I have a pair of $16 12VDC fans and a $9 PWM drive awaiting installation before our scheduled July trip to eastern Washington. On the other hand, larger refrigerators that vent through the roof of the trailer seem to perform much better from what I have read.

I think the best alternative in RV refrigeration is a 12VDC compressor type such as the Engel brand. Owners seem to be very enthusiastic about them. They are much more efficient than ammonia-style RV refrigerators, so require much less energy to operate. You can read more about them online.

However, going all-electric ideally would mean not becoming generator dependent, at least not in many folks' opinions. The steady hum of generators and the suggestion of exhaust odors in the air is a divisive subject among campers and RVers. An alternative is to start looking at solar. It's practical for this purpose as refrigeration requires far less energy than air conditioning would.

So, there's lots to think about. Personally, I am grateful for forums like this where I continue to learn from those much more experienced than me.
MUST-HAVES: Baby brother tells me I must, without a doubt, have a dual burner range; 1.9 CUFT Refrigerator (LP/120VAC/12VDC; furnace w/thermostat, electronic ignition, UL listed safety standard; Cover/food tray for range; at least fiberglass behind galley; a fold-out galley extension; 12VDC receptacle. You agree?
roguebooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 10:42 AM   #158
Senior Member
 
roguebooks's Avatar
 
Name: Michael
Trailer: Oliver Travel Trailer
Florida
Posts: 135
Had a great phone conversation this morning with Anita @ Oliver and I know the company stands behind their wonderful trailers and are aware of issues and always trying to improve upon their fine product. Wrestling now between modifying a Parkliner 16 (painting cabinet doors, maybe reupholstering the fabric, buying a good mattress for full-time bed); modifying a 19' Escape (same deal as above); or sticking with the standard Oliver Elite.
roguebooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 10:48 AM   #159
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 10,202
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguebooks View Post
MUST-HAVES: Baby brother tells me I must, without a doubt, have a dual burner range; 1.9 CUFT Refrigerator (LP/120VAC/12VDC; furnace w/thermostat, electronic ignition, UL listed safety standard; Cover/food tray for range; at least fiberglass behind galley; a fold-out galley extension; 12VDC receptacle. You agree?
Pretty much, except I see little need for 12V operation of a fridge. Absorption fridges are battery hogs on 12V, and you can do everything you need on LP or 110V. If you plan 12V operation of a fridge, you're better off with a dedicated 12V compressor fridge powered by high capacity batteries and a decent-sized solar array.

My Scamp did not come with a backsplash behind the galley. We don't cook inside, so it doesn't matter. But in any case I wouldn't make that a deal breaker, as it's easy enough to add, and there are lots of stylish alternatives to plain fiberglass (stainless steel, pressed tin, plastics made to look like pressed tin or tile or...).
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2017, 11:27 AM   #160
Senior Member
 
Raspy's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: Black Series HQ19
Smith Valley, Nevada
Posts: 2,486
Michael,

Speaking of backsplashes and counter tops, this is what I made and installed in my Oliver.
The standard fiberglass surface seems vulnerable and I didn't want the wall to act as a backsplash. Then I upgraded the faucet too. Much easier to reach and less splash.

As far as the fridge goes, when talking about 12v operation, be sure you distinguish between absorption style with a 12v heater (very power hungry) and a 12v compressor style. The compressor style is much more efficient on 12volts, but they are not perfect either. I've had two of them. They do make a bit of noise, but that may not be a deal breaker, but they are relentless with their power draw as they run about 30% of the time on average. Maybe 10% in cold weather, and 50% or more if you open the door a lot or add food to them. You always have to give them power that must come from somewhere. Shore tie, generator, solar with batteries.

I really like propane refrigerators! And when we're home, I plug the trailer in and run it on 120v, just like a household fridge.
Attached Thumbnails
20170422_211434-1.jpg   Kit-faucet.jpg  

__________________
I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt.
Raspy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
eggcamper, oliver, scamp 16, t@b


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 6 (0 members and 6 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
To buy or not to buy? Beachcomber B15, Newby QUESTIONS wfamily Hi, I am.... 9 05-27-2015 02:34 PM
if you were gonna buy a new tow veichle, what would you buy? Robin G General Chat 43 01-21-2009 08:04 PM
Help! Where can I buy trailer tires? Karalyn Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 6 09-12-2006 01:42 PM
Never buy an accessory bigger than the trailer Gina D. Modifications, Alterations and Updates 28 06-29-2006 08:06 PM
Why we want to buy a fiberglass trailer General Chat 0 01-01-1970 12:00 AM

» Trailer Showcase

Boler

ostamb

TBD

yamasaki
» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.