What trailer to buy?

[roguebooks]

Of the used FG trailers available for sale out there do all of them have either the rat fur of a Scamp or the marine carpeting found in a Casita? Do any have a different coating or wall covering other than the fuzz (excluding Oliver of course)?

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by roguebooks

Mr. Mike Civil,
Thank you for all the tips and help you give me. I am frustrated today. Oliver has let me down on many levels. No way am I spending that much cash and have all the problems I read about on the Ollie forum. It might be a blessing in disguise learning all this stuff so fast.

Michael,

"George" posted this in 2012 on another forum:

"I have come to the conclusion that most of what is manufactured by this industry is, in effect a "kit"......kinda like, "some assembly required". The folks that seem to be the happiest are those who like to tinker and really have a lot of "pride in ownership". There is always something to be tweaked, adjusted, fixed or modified. Great fun if you like doing all that, maybe less so if you simply want something that is turn key 100% reliable. And it does not seem to matter which end of the price spectrum you are buying. Go hang out on the Air Forum ( Airstream ) and you will hear those owners talking about the same issues that is cussed and discussed over on the funfinder ( my choice ) forum."

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/f...print/true.cfm

I bookmarked that one as I thought it so true. RV's do not get the same engineering, design, materials, products or supply chains as cars. I've read various times what it cost just to engineer a new engine and all I can say for sure is that it was some incredibly high figure. RV's are not like that.

A car door is designed to guide water strategically. The water that runs down the window glass enters the door and is channeled out at the bottom. Gutters over the doors and large, bulbous weather seals carefully mounted to precisely formed sheet metal fend off the rest. They are tested in wind tunnels. Trunk lids and rear hatches operate similarly; large, lightly compressed bulbous seals are held above the areas where the water is channeled to.

The closest thing I have ever seen in RV construction was an exterior luggage door on a 2017 Airstream video where the luggage door latch actually compressed a similarly large bulb seal. Other than that, I really haven't seen anything like this in RV construction. And, admittedly, my experience and budget are both limited.

Consequent to your looking at the Ollie, I text searched "broke" on the Ollie forum the other night and quickly scanned some posts. I actually thought the problems cited were pretty limited. And it sounded like Ollie was doing a great job of addressing the issues. Perhaps this reflects my expectations. Maybe I didn't see some of the things you saw.

If your expectations are some product that would have reliability and quality in accord with what we expect of motor vehicles today, I honestly don't think it truly exists. At least not at "reasonable" price points, whatever that is. In broad terms, the industry's ingrained practices are miles from the automotive industries. Here's another of many articles in that vein.

Living Stingy: The RV Industry's Dirty Litle Secret: Quality

Given all the above, I suggest you would be happiest spending at a level that would not leave you expecting something like near-perfection. I think that Scamp, Escape and Casita as established players in this niche do a good job for the money they charge. Not perfect mind you, but what is? It appears from reports that they make good on delivering and backing up their products. Parkliner and Snoozy are both under new management and also getting good reports. The folks building the Trilliums have been very slow to deliver what apparently are pretty sweet little trailers.

Airstream may get Robert Johan's baby out to production one day. Hey! This link says 2018:

https://www.airstream.com/nest/

In any event, I think you have been travelling fast on your search, expecting that there is some "product" to be simply selected and purchased that will simply "work". In my opinion, and with all due respect to both you and the industry at large, I just don't think that this is how it works. At least not at the price point that I have been willing to spend.

But, if you'd like to consider what is in effect a "kit", well, now you're talking!

[roguebooks]

Originally Posted by Carol and Mike

There have been a couple of threads on the Oliver Forum recently where owners talked about issues they have had. I was one of those that posted the issues we've had since we picked up last May. None were major and they did not affect our use - we've done 20K miles in the last 12 months. My purpose was to note that all issues were addressed quickly and resolved and that we were very happy with our Oliver. Other owners that posted had the same bottom line. Factory support is outstanding. Mike

We still like the Oliver Elite the best of all we have seen. But at this high price point I was not expecting to see the level of problems present in the posts. I prided myself while in construction business in not having a punch list as I paid attention to details. But I was a rare bird and never made the money I could have had I let things slide by. I admit to holding Oliver to a higher standard than the norm because they advertise to that effect. And charge for it. So we shall see. Thanks.

[Raspy]

Following up on Mr Lynn's and Mike and Carols posts.

There have been some odd assembly issues with Oliver lately. Annoying ones too. But if there was another list, a list of items that are much better than I've ever seen anywhere else, the comparison would be overwhelming. A few maddening bad items and a long list of very very nice items. I'm sure Oliver is very embarrassed and doing their best to refine the assembly process. Meanwhile, the design itself has a lot of advantages.

I wasn't interested in re-building an older trailer, or having to, again, deal with poor quality issues that are so prevalent in conventional trailers. I also found out there really was no warrantee on my Fleetwood, and the attitude went from nice to mean as soon as the paperwork was done. Then I was on my own and mad. Then I began to literally watch my Thor fall apart on one desert trip.

I hope you find the right one for you.

[Glenn Baglo]

Escape uses a vinyl product that is easy to clean.

[rbryan]

This thread was an interesting read. Yes, it all comes down to taste, but it should also come down to function. If a layout doesn't work for you, the appearance won't make a bit of difference. My only advice would be to think about how you are going to use it, day in and day out. Then, determine which one is the best value for YOUR needs. For me, value encompasses alot of different things and price is only one of them.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Escape uses a vinyl product that is easy to clean.

Glenn,

How are Escapes insulated? I see single wall construction and a vinyl interior wall. Is there insulation behind the wall treatment and in the floor somehow?

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Glenn,

How are Escapes insulated? I see single wall construction and a vinyl interior wall. Is there insulation behind the wall treatment and in the floor somehow?

Not Glenn, but I can answer. Prior to the new 2nd Generation Escapes, the insulation was Reflectix. With the introduction of the 2nd Gen, Escape changed to a foam sheet insulation, which is similar to the foam used in packing material, albeit a little thicker. The new insulation material does a better job than the Reflectix did. In certain areas of the shell, they still use Reflectix also, but that is mainly for its heat reflective properties, and is in very specific areas, like behind the fridge.

[rbryan]

Here's a photo I lifted from the Escape forum that shows a unit under construction with some of the foam and Reflectix still exposed.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by rbryan

Not Glenn, but I can answer. Prior to the new 2nd Generation Escapes, the insulation was Reflectix. With the introduction of the 2nd Gen, Escape changed to a foam sheet insulation, which is similar to the foam used in packing material, albeit a little thicker. The new insulation material does a better job than the Reflectix did. In certain areas of the shell, they still use Reflectix also, but that is mainly for its heat reflective properties, and is in very specific areas, like behind the fridge.

Still not understanding how it is applied and how the interior finish fits over it. Are the walls flexible because of the insulation behind vinyl? From the pictures it looks like there are hard molded pieces that fit here and there to make a ceiling.

How is it done in the floor? Under, between the floor and the shell?

Thanks for the picture.

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Still not understanding how it is applied and how the interior finish fits over it. Are the walls flexible because of the insulation behind vinyl? From the pictures it looks like there are hard molded pieces that fit here and there to make a ceiling.

How is it done in the floor? Under, between the floor and the shell?

The walls have some "cushion" because of the insulation, but I wouldn't call them flexible.

The vinyl wall covering goes over the insulation. It's water resistant and easy to clean. The "hard" mounting points you describe have to do with a difference in how Escapes are built vs other single hull fiberglass trailers. Escape fiberglasses into the interior shell some wood support struts and mounting blocks in various locations. It's these glassed in supports that interior cabinetry and fixtures are attached to, instead of using rivets through the shell. Even the halves of the trailer are fiberglassed together before taken out of the mold, so it's really a one piece shell. The belly band is just cosmetic.

The floor consists of plywood, but it's completely encased in fiberglass. There are voids under it, which are part of the bottom half mold, to allow any water to collect and drain out. Can't rot, can't warp.

[Glenn Baglo]

What Robert said.

[Raspy]

Thanks for the explanation.

[Paul O.]

Originally Posted by rbryan

...
The floor consists of plywood, but it's completely encased in fiberglass. There are voids under it, which are part of the bottom half mold, to allow any water to collect and drain out. Can't rot, can't warp.

I like your camper name "past tents"! I am tempted to plagiarize it.

But I beg to differ on the potential for rotting of the floor. If you have a big flood once per year, it drains out and you allow it to dry, that is fine. If you have a minor leak somewhere, internal or external, and it just maintains the right amount of moisture, you may not notice, but the mold spores will, and they will sprout.

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by roguebooks

Don't really want propane as I exclusively grill veggies, fish, and meat with charcoal. We eat mostly whole foods anyway.

Wouldn't mind a trailer being all-electric.

Propane is basically a very compact, portable supply of energy. The energy contained in a 20-lb cylinder dwarfs the energy contained in even a very large RV battery array.

I consider operating our 3-way refrigerator on propane to be one of the "great things" about our trailer. I have seen reports of four weeks of use and more on a single 20-lb propane cylinder under summer conditions. Propane is highly portable, readily available and not dreadfully expensive, so offers several advantages.

As to the ventilation problems I have mentioned with refrigerator units about 4 cu ft and smaller, the primary problems seem to be the limited ventilation provided by the upper "wall-mounted" vent, and improper installations which don't maintain the proper spacing and baffling between the trailer wall and the back of the fridge. Many others have preceded us in identifying repairs and upgrades to improve these issues. There are several key threads on this and the Casita forums that address how to resolve this issue.

I have a pair of $16 12VDC fans and a $9 PWM drive awaiting installation before our scheduled July trip to eastern Washington. On the other hand, larger refrigerators that vent through the roof of the trailer seem to perform much better from what I have read.

I think the best alternative in RV refrigeration is a 12VDC compressor type such as the Engel brand. Owners seem to be very enthusiastic about them. They are much more efficient than ammonia-style RV refrigerators, so require much less energy to operate. You can read more about them online.

However, going all-electric ideally would mean not becoming generator dependent, at least not in many folks' opinions. The steady hum of generators and the suggestion of exhaust odors in the air is a divisive subject among campers and RVers. An alternative is to start looking at solar. It's practical for this purpose as refrigeration requires far less energy than air conditioning would.

So, there's lots to think about. Personally, I am grateful for forums like this where I continue to learn from those much more experienced than me.

[thrifty bill]

+10 No propane = eliminates most efficient source of heat and refrigeration when boondocking. Cooking is really a side benefit.

Also, we can all debate the "is it safe to run propane frig while towing", but it is very efficient then too.

[roguebooks]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

Propane is basically a very compact, portable supply of energy. The energy contained in a 20-lb cylinder dwarfs the energy contained in even a very large RV battery array.

I consider operating our 3-way refrigerator on propane to be one of the "great things" about our trailer. I have seen reports of four weeks of use and more on a single 20-lb propane cylinder under summer conditions. Propane is highly portable, readily available and not dreadfully expensive, so offers several advantages.

As to the ventilation problems I have mentioned with refrigerator units about 4 cu ft and smaller, the primary problems seem to be the limited ventilation provided by the upper "wall-mounted" vent, and improper installations which don't maintain the proper spacing and baffling between the trailer wall and the back of the fridge. Many others have preceded us in identifying repairs and upgrades to improve these issues. There are several key threads on this and the Casita forums that address how to resolve this issue.

I have a pair of $16 12VDC fans and a $9 PWM drive awaiting installation before our scheduled July trip to eastern Washington. On the other hand, larger refrigerators that vent through the roof of the trailer seem to perform much better from what I have read.

I think the best alternative in RV refrigeration is a 12VDC compressor type such as the Engel brand. Owners seem to be very enthusiastic about them. They are much more efficient than ammonia-style RV refrigerators, so require much less energy to operate. You can read more about them online.

However, going all-electric ideally would mean not becoming generator dependent, at least not in many folks' opinions. The steady hum of generators and the suggestion of exhaust odors in the air is a divisive subject among campers and RVers. An alternative is to start looking at solar. It's practical for this purpose as refrigeration requires far less energy than air conditioning would.

So, there's lots to think about. Personally, I am grateful for forums like this where I continue to learn from those much more experienced than me.

MUST-HAVES: Baby brother tells me I must, without a doubt, have a dual burner range; 1.9 CUFT Refrigerator (LP/120VAC/12VDC; furnace w/thermostat, electronic ignition, UL listed safety standard; Cover/food tray for range; at least fiberglass behind galley; a fold-out galley extension; 12VDC receptacle. You agree?

[roguebooks]

Had a great phone conversation this morning with Anita @ Oliver and I know the company stands behind their wonderful trailers and are aware of issues and always trying to improve upon their fine product. Wrestling now between modifying a Parkliner 16 (painting cabinet doors, maybe reupholstering the fabric, buying a good mattress for full-time bed); modifying a 19' Escape (same deal as above); or sticking with the standard Oliver Elite.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by roguebooks

MUST-HAVES: Baby brother tells me I must, without a doubt, have a dual burner range; 1.9 CUFT Refrigerator (LP/120VAC/12VDC; furnace w/thermostat, electronic ignition, UL listed safety standard; Cover/food tray for range; at least fiberglass behind galley; a fold-out galley extension; 12VDC receptacle. You agree?

Pretty much, except I see little need for 12V operation of a fridge. Absorption fridges are battery hogs on 12V, and you can do everything you need on LP or 110V. If you plan 12V operation of a fridge, you're better off with a dedicated 12V compressor fridge powered by high capacity batteries and a decent-sized solar array.

My Scamp did not come with a backsplash behind the galley. We don't cook inside, so it doesn't matter. But in any case I wouldn't make that a deal breaker, as it's easy enough to add, and there are lots of stylish alternatives to plain fiberglass (stainless steel, pressed tin, plastics made to look like pressed tin or tile or...).

[Raspy]

Michael,

Speaking of backsplashes and counter tops, this is what I made and installed in my Oliver.
The standard fiberglass surface seems vulnerable and I didn't want the wall to act as a backsplash. Then I upgraded the faucet too. Much easier to reach and less splash.

As far as the fridge goes, when talking about 12v operation, be sure you distinguish between absorption style with a 12v heater (very power hungry) and a 12v compressor style. The compressor style is much more efficient on 12volts, but they are not perfect either. I've had two of them. They do make a bit of noise, but that may not be a deal breaker, but they are relentless with their power draw as they run about 30% of the time on average. Maybe 10% in cold weather, and 50% or more if you open the door a lot or add food to them. You always have to give them power that must come from somewhere. Shore tie, generator, solar with batteries.

I really like propane refrigerators! And when we're home, I plug the trailer in and run it on 120v, just like a household fridge.