Cashless national parks

[AC0GV]

This link is to Devils Tower but I think all are doing it. I like cash but I even found gas stations that would not take cash last year. I put in a few cents less that 100$ and they would not take a 100$ bill as payment.

https://www.nps.gov/deto/learn/news/news.htm

[AlanKilian]

I've always found it good to have both cash and credit card(s) when traveling.

[AC0GV]

Originally Posted by AlanKilian

I've always found it good to have both cash and credit card(s) when traveling.

Make that two credit cards from two DIFFERENT banks. One hidden in the Tow vehicle and one in my pocket.

[floyd]

Its a National Monument for cryin' out loud, can't they even read what is printed right on the cash that they authorized?


"THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER
FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE"


Oh well at least they will still honor the senior pass.



Bad enough when a private business scoffs at the obligation, but the government rejecting its own standards.


They claim to streamline the process but really they are just cutting private banks in for a piece of the action.

[Alex Adams]

Unfortunately, the cost of handling cash just keeps going up due to insurance, salaries, etc. Since the government forced the credit card companies to reduce their exorbitant transaction fees a number of years ago and the explosion of third party processors for credit/debit card transactions, the cost of processing credit/debit cards has dropped. They are just doing the math as are a lot of other big entities. I swear I've seen a couple of places that charged extra for paying with cash.

[AlanKilian]

Originally Posted by floyd

Bad enough when a private business scoffs at the obligation...

Originally Posted by YourFederalGovernmentLaws

There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.

Ref: https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

[RogerDat]

I'm with the some cash, a debit card, and a credit card. Not all on my person. I find a whole lot of places have those little card swipe things on a tablet. I bought Cheryl a bracelet from an Native women under a pop up on a reservation out west. Card swipe and done.

Gas tracking it is way easier using a card than cash. Reservations too. I can look at statement and easily see most expenses. Not to mention if I have to make a last minute one over the phone. Hold that site is a lot easier if I have paid for it.

I think the missing piece in the "all debt" conversation is one doesn't have a debt until the seller provides you with a good or service for which you have an obligation to pay. If they require debit or credit card to purchase and you don't have one... then you can't get the good or service to incur the debt for which cash would be legal tender to pay.

If a gas station wouldn't accept cash so you can't buy the gas you don't have a debt to pay. Same for park access or camping. No purchase means no debt public or private to put the cash against.

Same for those vending machines that don't do cash. Since I can't buy the $3.00 candy bar I can't insist they take cash for a candy bar they didn't sell me.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

I'm with the some cash, a debit card, and a credit card. Not all on my person. I find a whole lot of places have those little card swipe things on a tablet. I bought Cheryl a bracelet from an Native women under a pop up on a reservation out west. Card swipe and done.

Gas tracking it is way easier using a card than cash. Reservations too. I can look at statement and easily see most expenses. Not to mention if I have to make a last minute one over the phone. Hold that site is a lot easier if I have paid for it.

I think the missing piece in the "all debt" conversation is one doesn't have a debt until the seller provides you with a good or service for which you have an obligation to pay. If they require debit or credit card to purchase and you don't have one... then you can't get the good or service to incur the debt for which cash would be legal tender to pay.

If a gas station wouldn't accept cash so you can't buy the gas you don't have a debt to pay. Same for park access or camping. No purchase means no debt public or private to put the cash against.

Same for those vending machines that don't do cash. Since I can't buy the $3.00 candy bar I can't insist they take cash for a candy bar they didn't sell me.

Good point. Most pumps no longer allow vending before payment is arranged. I have not questioned the "legality" of this move only its ethics and the irony of the government not honoring its own currency


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_____________________
"You don't take a man's freedom by force these days you take it by narrowing his options."

[RogerDat]

Links to political narratives as baiting and the snarky response is pointless and rude to the OP who was just pointing out some useful information on new park policies.

yes it is sort of ironic that a federal service would not accept US cash as payment but that subject needs to remain focused on the park and us who use it not the political theories of why. I think the post with handling money cost more probably answered the question of why very well. I think we have established a reason it would be perfectly legal. So maybe it is time to drop the "gubernment" from the discussion.

Politics! Sheesh, other than amusing the Canadian members what does discussing it provide for FGRV forum? Nothing good.

[Iowa Dave]

I don’t care. They want a card I give them a card, they want cash, they get cash. I like Devils Tower, have always been treated right there, as with most all of the National parks I’ve visited. If everything goes to hell I’ll set the Escape up in the back yard and cook a squirrel
who thought he’d get a free ear of corn at the bird feeder. YMMV.

[AC0GV]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

I like Devils Tower, have always been treated right there, as with most all of the National parks I’ve visited..

And the Devils tower KOA plays the movie most nights. Great place and I'd stay there again but the fed campground is cheaper.

[Iowa Dave]

We have camped in the park several times.

In 1997 we took the Boy Scout troop there for a couple nights. They had a lot of fun. The rest of the trip was filled with close encounters of the _________ kind.

In 2017 Rita took one at this site that made the Escape calendar. I didn’t have time to drive to Wyoming this afternoon but was able to get my elk fix at Pinicon Ridge park near Central City, Iowa

The one mile or so walk around the base of the Tower. Is enjoyable especially early in the day. Take a water along. Don’t miss the prairie dogs near the entrance.
Iowa Dave

[DanielAG]

Going cashless makes the credit card company responsible for what you buy. If you want to purchase something the credit card will not accept, you will do without-then what will you do?

[Jann Todd]

Originally Posted by AC0GV

This link is to Devils Tower but I think all are doing it. I like cash but I even found gas stations that would not take cash last year. I put in a few cents less that 100$ and they would not take a 100$ bill as payment.

https://www.nps.gov/deto/learn/news/news.htm

They may take cash but not $100 bills. A lot of places won't take $50 bills either. It is because of counterfeit money. We ran into this once when all we had was some $50's. We had to find a place to change it to other bills. So now we carry a lot of $20's. We use credit cards as much as possible but if gas is 5-10 cents less a gallon and we are putting in 30-40 gallons it helps the budget to pay with cash. National parks, etc are using electronic payment things and credit cards on kiosks all over. We've had to pay for campgrounds many times with credit cards. Gas stations limit you to $75 to $125 on a credit card. So if you are buying 30 gallons at $4 or more a gallon you may not be able to fill up. Sometimes you can put the card in twice but some stations won't let you. Experience has taught us a lot.

[John in Santa Cruz]

i filled my truck at an unmanned credit only station in San Diego during peak gas prices a few weeks ago, and the station had a $75 limit and about $5.70/gallon, it took THREE swipes of my card, two I had to approve via a text message before my 38 gallon diesel tank was full.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by floyd

Good point. Most pumps no longer allow vending before payment is arranged. I have not questioned the "legality" of this move only its ethics and the irony of the government not honoring its own currency

The campground is run by a concessioneer, a private party, To get a site you call another private party, in this case recreation.gov currently run by Booz Allen Hamilton, and pay a fee on top of the site cost. And to pay you use a credit card administered by a third private party. Instead of the park service running the operation they have turned it over to the private sector. And they save money by shifting the cost to you. And to add insult to injury, they tell you how much better it is. The fact that they won't take cash is a side effect of having to go off site to make a payment to a private party. Personally, I'm a big fan of the iron ranger.

Last year Grand Teton went the same route, at the suggestion of the concessioneer. Outerbanks the year before. Many state park systems aswell. It appears this is fine with most people so best get used to it.

[John in Santa Cruz]

the problem with the iron ranger thing is, what if the campground is full ? you've driven a long distance, you;'re ready to make camp and chill, and omg, there's no room.

[John in Santa Cruz]

on our trip home from Death Valley to Santa Cruz on the Central Coast, we stretched it out to 3 nights, and 150-250 miles a day. we free camped at Alabama Hills, Kern River, and Condon Hills in the Clear Creek BLM... oh, Clear Creek was a $5 vehicle fee, so the next morning, we took my big diesel F250 4x4 longbed up some seriously gnarly fire roads, but the roads didn't match the map we were using, so we bailed about halfway to the top and backtracked. Its great having quality all terrain tires, like BF Goodrich All Terrain KO2, awesome on the streets, highways, *and* offroad.

alabama hills


kern river


Clear Creek

[John in Santa Cruz]

view from up on the hill above Condon Peak Camp in the Clear Creek Recreation Area.

[John in Santa Cruz]

The Kern River next to our freecamp.