Pricing

[Steve Wishek]

Recently, we started a topic about our newly launched fiberglass trailer, named Genesis. The response was varied, and we learned a lot from the comments of the members of the forum, which we appreciate very much.

One of the more excitable points of discussion revolved around the pricing. Since everyone was very forthcoming, we would like to ask you all a question. At what retail price should Genesis be offered? Recognizing that our costs are our costs, we may or may not be able to react, but a least, we would like to know what people think because in the end, the only thing that matters is what the market will accept.

If you would like to review the product again, you may see it at www.americansporttrailer.com. Please bear in mind as you make your recommendations, those standard features that are included. If you do not value those features, then please say that as well. Finally please bear in mind, we do not intend to start an auction, we are only interested in understanding your individual views and as a result, gain a better understanding of the market at large.

Thanks in advance. We are certainly looking forward to some interesting posts.

Steve W.

[pjanits]

To be frank it should be priced less than a Casita/Scamp comparibly equipped.

I do like it but I don't think I would go for it myself as I would like a little more area to spread out in in bad weather. It looks to be smaller than my Burro 13' inside. Although it does have a lot of appeal.

The features/equipment are outstanding if they indeed are all standard.

One thing, it wasn't clear if there is an 12v converter/charger or not.

[Steve Wishek]

One thing, it wasn't clear if there is an 12v converter/charger or not.

Loaded as it is, probably should be in the 15- 16k range.

There is a 25 amp converter/charger. All appliances including the TV/DVD player run on 12 volts with the exception of the AC, which requires 115.

We appreciate your ideas and comments. Thanks.

Steve

[Dennis Urso]

Steve,

Your trailer looks very nice and has what would be considered options on Big Foots, Casitas, Scamps, etc. I especially like the idea of an outdoor galley area, given that you don't camp when it's very cold outside. It looks like, however, the the gross weight and price is well above other 13 foot fiberglass trailers with comparable equipment. Check out the manufactures sites and do your own comparison.

Good luck. It's always nice to have options in buying out there.

Dennis

[Bill Boone]

Hi Steve, I personally don't like an outside galley as I like to make coffee first thing in morning., even if it's to heat water for instant. The space looks acceptable for comfort tho the wt. may be a little heavy for the smaller vehicles. The refridgerator is a nice idea and portable. Still a nicely designed trailer but not for me. Bill

[Gary Lynch]

It looks built well and has nice appointments. It would be suitable for warm weather areas. It is more like a specialty trailer than a general use trailer.

[Carl O]

Steve,

I am a teardrop owner and your trailer shares similar traits with Camp-Inn's 560 model http://home.centurytel.net/edevold/models.htm, which lists for $15060, so with everything you offer I'd say you're in the ballpark.

You've created a unique trailer, which isn't quite a teardrop (because of the shape) and isn't really a traditional fiberglass trailer (because of the outside galley). It looks very well made.

I'm curious, how did you come to this design and who is your target audience?

This fiberglassrv site is only one of many small trailer sites that you may want to introduce your trailer to members. Just beware that at some sites (I won't mention names, but you can get it from me in a PM) the members get really upset if your first message is a "for sale" message.

Good luck!

-Carl

[Frederick L. Simson]

To be frank it should be priced less than a Casita/Scamp comparibly equipped.

I think that we (as a class of consumers) have become acustomed to factory-direct pricing, which has been promoted to be lower than through a Dealer network. I don't see this as competition for Scamp or Casita. Rather, it seems to be a "sporty" prelude to the Bigfoot market segment.
To use the automobile metafor, Scamp and Casita would be Ford and Chevy, while Genesis would be the little BMW entry into the Mercedes market.

[Roger H]

Like Carl, I'd suggest that you price it in line with the products with which you expect to be in direct competition, whatever market you perceive that to be. The outside kitchen ala teardrop genre is an interesting twist in a FGRV. I don't know how much success you can expect among the Scamp/Casita/Escape/Trillium buyers. I suspect that Genesis will appeal more to the hot rod/teardrop group who are accustomed to that arrangement than to much of the membership here who generally seek all-weather accommodations.

You've got a great looking product, Steve. Thanks for sharing it with us. I hope it's successful, and that you'll keep us apprised of how you (and Genesis) are doing!

Roger

[Donna D.]

I too wish you much luck Steve You may wish to revisit all the options that you've turned into standards. That has driven up the price AND the weight. There are those who would prefer to pick 'n chose exactly which features they want/need. Not everyone wants a "Cadillac." A base price for a base camper may also be required For instance, I don't want A/C, bought my trailer without an awning and enjoyed the trailer for a number of years without it! Maybe even all the "appliances," from furnace to galley stuff....ala stove and refer. Teardrops come to mind because so many people use coolers and small-bottle stoves.

The one thing that I 100% agree on, is you MUST get the price lower than a comparable outfitted Scamp/Casita in order to be in their buy ballpark.

Have you considered dual-pane windows? Right now, there isn't a seller making a small LIGHTWEIGHT trailer with dual-panes. For those in cold weather climates that would be great!

Best of Luck!

[Steve Wishek]

Thanks to all of you who have contributed you thoughts.

Genesis is intended for support of outdoor oriented activities such as biking, hiking, camping, tailgating, and so on. While we may not compete directly with Scamp or Casita, we have to concede that our pricing is not realistic.

We have published a revised MSRP on our website, at www.americansporttrailer.com. We will find ways to reduce our costs to manufacture without compromising our vision for Genesis in order to support this new MSRP.

We appreciate your kind replies and thank you once again.

Best regards

Steve Wishek

[Kathy & Doug Roach]

While I'll concede your referenced "...outdoor oriented activities..." are indeed why all of us have our trailers, there are always times that inclement weather will force the outdoors lover in. (In fact, those times seem to follow us around like Joe Bpfsplk's cloud.) That's why I think more than a sofa bed is called for here.
Congratulations on getting the thing down to 12 feet but at 2800 pounds dry, (considerably more than my Trillium 5500) I really wish there was a space for a chair.

In answer to your initial query, though, I think the listed price is eminently fair considering what you've put into this thing.
It's just not for us.

Doug

[Greg A]

Definitely some interesting features. The bath is a nice feature for sure. The outdoor kitchen would not appeal to me personally and I like the aesthetics of my 13' Egg shaped Scamp a bit better than the boxier look with this. The weight would also put this beyond the limits of my tow vehicle without adding costly modifications which the Scamp doesn't do. Keep us posted on your progress with Genesis.

[Thane]

Perhaps you could offer an optional exterior bar-b-que plumbed into the propane system. There are a few different mounted or free standing systems that may be of interest to the tailgating crowd.

If you could arrange for the use of professional team logos I would expect that you would get a lot of interest from those that are unusually devoted to their team.

An optional mount for exterior flat screen TV coupled with a Honda 2000 genertor would let the really dedicated parking lot gypsies watch a show while getting ready for the big game.

The water tanks are very well sized, great capacity, do they have a water level monitoring system?

[jack maloney]

Prices don't just come out of thin air. How much have you already invested in design and gearing up for production? How many units can you make? How much will it cost you in labor and materials to produce them? How much to market them? And how much money do you need to make in order to make the effort worthwhile? (And don't forget sales and income taxes!)

Add it all up, divide by the number of units you can reasonably expect to sell, and you'll be pretty close to your bottom-line price.

Only after that can you see how you stack up against the competition.

[Patrick M.]

Good luck with your trailer! You have some nice extra features included, and I think it's like a premium Scamp 13' so maybe $9,000-$10,000.

You might want to make the main picture on your website show the trailer more than the truck, and lighten it up a bit.

[Steve Wishek]

The water tanks are very well sized, great capacity, do they have a water level monitoring system?

There is a tank and battery monitoring panel. You push a button for each of the tanks or battery and the level is displayed.

Steve

[Steve Wishek]

Prices don't just come out of thin air. How much have you already invested in design and gearing up for production? How many units can you make? How much will it cost you in labor and materials to produce them? How much to market them? And how much money do you need to make in order to make the effort worthwhile? (And don't forget sales and income taxes!)

Add it all up, divide by the number of units you can reasonably expect to sell, and you'll be pretty close to your bottom-line price.

Only after that can you see how you stack up against the competition.

Hello Jack-

Certainly, all of your points are valid. We understand that knowing our costs are critical, and please rest assured we know them all too well. Based on those costs we arrived at our original MSRP. The problem is, the reality of how the market values our product will determine what price we are able to obtain for our efforts, and we will have to adjust our thinking and product to meet the demands of the market. Therefore, this we will do.

We are committed to production. We have delivered the first units to our dealers and are in process on 10 units in the shop at this time. Further to this, we have material on the way for additional production. Time will tell the story, sooner then later, I think.

Steve

[Cathy P.]

While I realize it is too late at this point, it might have been better to build a couple prototypes and have them taken camping across country. Unfortunately there really isn't a for sure method to know how the consumer will react to your product until you get it out there. Everyone has always been anxious to discuss a new RV everywhere we have been and RVers/campers are often the most chatty people we have meant. While pricing is important, establishing the demand for a unit that combines a small TT with a teardrop would be equally important as if I don't have a desire for a product, no price would be right. It is a beautiful little trailer. Are you doing any RV shows? They can be expensive but you need a way to introduce your product. Although it isn't my business, I do wonder what kind of research you did prior to starting this business venture. I continue to wish you well and hope to see an update of how things are going with your business. Cathy

[Mr. W.]

Steve - I haven't chimed in here on the site for quite some time, but I just wanted to speak up and say a few things. First of all, I think that your trailer looks as though you have put a lot of effort in. The outside galley is obviously getting mixed reviews. I have a 13' Scamp Deluxe with the front bathroom, so that is where I am basing my comparisons. I have a full inside galley, but if the weather allows, I prefer to cook outside -- keeps the camper clean and smell-free, doesn't get it all hot and humid, etcetera. I have a front bathroom, and I wouldn't be without it, even in such a small camper. I have all the options, much like your unit. I weigh 1800 lbs. So, I am significantly lighter than you, and one foot longer.

However, your camper looks to be well built. I know I will raise a ruckus by saying this, but the truth is, Scamps are very poorly built. Don't get me wrong -- I love my Scamp. It is a 1987 and it is still in great condition, and will last for decades longer. So, it is obviously far superior in build quality than most stickies, but it is still poorly built -- press-board floor, very thin fiberglass, rivets through the shell, lousy doors, cheap, cheap, cheap. It simply doesn't live up to my standards for "quality". But, it is now 20 years old and just getting started. What this tells me is that you may have put too much quality in for the mass market. There are people out there who want quality, and will pay more for it when they see it. There are also people who love the teardrop mindset, but have reached the stage where they want a little more. Those groups will probably be your market.

What does a loaded Scamp 13 Deluxe sell for these days? $13K? I haven't looked in a long time. The new EggCamper 17, which I'm told is high quality, sells for $11K - $16K, based on options. There is a big space difference between yours and theirs.

If I lived in a fair-weather climate, I'd probably be open to an outside galley. Where I live, I'd not be opposed to it, but I'd really like to have at least a tent enclosure that I could put up to cut wind and rain.

I really appreciate your desire to build the best trailer you can, without cutting corners, and still be open minded to listen to the concerns of this group. I wish you all the best.