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Old 01-22-2018, 04:46 PM   #1
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30% solar panel tariff

Today I ordered two solar panels for my new DIY portable suitcase unit (more on that later), and literally four hours later I read that a 30% tariff has been added to panels imported into the US, which is 80-95% of the panels sold in this country (percentages vary by different sources).

Trump imposes 30 percent tariff on solar panel imports | TheHill
Trump imposes tariffs on solar panels
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ean-energy-yet

I bought two high quality Renogy 50 watt panels at near their low price point according to price tacking websites. With a Amazon discount (that maybe not everyone will get), they were $69.99 each. If you have been contemplating a purchase, you might want to see if you can snag a deal before the tariff causes a price increase.

Discuss….(but no politics! )
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:33 PM   #2
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That's how the chicken tax got started.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:38 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by gordon2 View Post
Today I ordered two solar panels for my new DIY portable suitcase unit (more on that later), and literally four hours later I read that a 30% tariff has been added to panels imported into the US, which is 80-95% of the panels sold in this country (percentages vary by different sources).

Trump imposes 30 percent tariff on solar panel imports | TheHill
Trump imposes tariffs on solar panels
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ean-energy-yet

I bought two high quality Renogy 50 watt panels at near their low price point according to price tacking websites. With a Amazon discount (that maybe not everyone will get), they were $69.99 each. If you have been contemplating a purchase, you might want to see if you can snag a deal before the tariff causes a price increase.

Discuss….(but no politics! )
I agree, no politics. But around the world the push and the need is for renewable energy. Our form of travel is dependent on fossil fuel but can you imagine the future if we could depend more on renewable energy? Like the new electric Big Rig designs that have large purchase orders waiting. Plug in at night, drive a couple of hundred miles to a new Camp, or carry a recharging generator. We need to look to the future. DG
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:49 AM   #4
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I ordered my panels yesterday evening as soon as I saw the news of that immediately effective new tariff. It won't take long for the current stock at those old prices to sell out and I did not want to pay more as that would hurt my budget.

I got a 150 watt panel for the trailer and also a 50 watt panel for my Honda Element which is my micro sized camper for when I don't want to haul a trailer along. I will get the controller for the 150 watt panel later as the tariff is just on panels.

My son has an Amazon associate link that helps him support his full time RV life so I made sure to use his link for the purchase. For those of you who have family and friends doing something similar don't forget this is a good opportunity if you are purchasing panels while the prices are still lower to send a few dollars their way at no cost to yourself.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:24 AM   #5
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Tax avoidance is an honorable tradition. It's why Subaru Brats had back seats in the truck bed. It's also why Sprinters are fully assembled in Germany, only to be reassembled here. Toyota Forerunners? Not sure. The early ones had shells over a pickup bed.

You mean people do things to avoid paying taxes? Not meant as partisan.

I think towed trailers have just lost their second home tax deduction. So we may see an increase in Class C's or B's.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:33 PM   #6
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Solar

Looking for Solar equipment made in the US so I don't have to pay extra tax and help people get off welfare.


Buying Amazon saves you money, as the post office is loosing money shipping for Amazon, and the taxpayers will make up the difference, and it also displaces people who live and work in your neighborhood,
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:54 PM   #7
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Buying Amazon saves you money, as the post office is loosing money shipping for Amazon, and the taxpayers will make up the difference, and it also displaces people who live and work in your neighborhood,
Actually, the USPS is a separate entity and is run like a private business. It is not part of the budget and takes an act of congress (not likely) just to allow them to raise their rates. The only problem is they get hamstrung by congress passing ridiculous regulations on them like having to fund their pension and healthcare obligations out 30 years! How many companies would survive if congress applied that requirement to all corporations? The funny thing is Fedex, DHL, UPS all offload the last mile delivery to the USPS for their "saver" shipping because they can't do it. And finally, what is your evidence that the USPS is losing money delivering for Amazon?

We have one of the largest, cheapest and most efficient postal services in the world.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:44 PM   #8
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Actually, the USPS is a separate entity and is run like a private business. It is not part of the budget and takes an act of congress (not likely) just to allow them to raise their rates. The only problem is they get hamstrung by congress passing ridiculous regulations on them like having to fund their pension and healthcare obligations out 30 years! How many companies would survive if congress applied that requirement to all corporations? The funny thing is Fedex, DHL, UPS all offload the last mile delivery to the USPS for their "saver" shipping because they can't do it. And finally, what is your evidence that the USPS is losing money delivering for Amazon?

We have one of the largest, cheapest and most efficient postal services in the world.
former Treasury undersecretary and chairman of the economic consultancy Sonecon—points out in a new analysis, American taxpayers subsidize the USPS at a rate that surpasses the costs associated with any Congressional mandate. He estimates that, all told, the subsidies and legal monopolies that Congress bestows upon the post office is worth $18 billion annually.

Alex did I also hear correctly that 1st class stamps are going up?
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:58 AM   #9
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....
I think towed trailers have just lost their second home tax deduction. So we may see an increase in Class C's or B's.
I think that is Home Equity Loans.. Zillow Research says in part:

Even though the final bill retained the deductibility of mortgage interest on second homes, folks buying a second home could see fewer benefits, but likely for different reasons than others.
As for the USPS (and Amazon), that is way off topic, but since you mentioned it.. why is it that we get mail six days a week still when the post office is losing money? With the internet, online bill pay, and now scanned images of my mail being sent to my e-mail every day, I could easily go with once a week delivery. And that means that postal rates could actually go down and still leave a profit or break-even for the USPS. People who need mail sent faster still have the other "over-night" services available. It is past time that we give up the antiquated notion that we need mail every day except Sunday. Starting with Monday, Wednesday and Friday as standard delivery days would be a good move.

Now back to the cost of solar discussion, or maybe move this to the General Chat section.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:25 AM   #10
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There were also several article published yesterday saying 25,000 US jobs will be lost due to the tariff on solar panels .
Supposedly with the tax law changes and the tariff, the price of solar systems will rise 15 to 20% making them financially unfeasible for some consumers. One article also hinted that the real push for this tariff was the coal and oil industry.
At the current price of a small RV solar panel , I am not sure a 30% tariff is enough to scare buyers away .
When I bought my solar panel 4 years ago the price was around $250 now 4 years later and with the 30% tariff added my cost would still be around $250
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:51 AM   #11
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Here in Vermont the state requires the local power companies to purchase (up to a limit) solar generated power at a set rate. The goal is energy self sufficiency. Add federal and state tax breaks, solar farms are covering the land once populated by dairy farms. Companies have sprung up to do the install and then sell to investors as a long term investment. It will be interesting what effect the tarriff will have on all this.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:09 AM   #12
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I agree, no politics. But around the world the push and the need is for renewable energy. Our form of travel is dependent on fossil fuel but can you imagine the future if we could depend more on renewable energy? Like the new electric Big Rig designs that have large purchase orders waiting. Plug in at night, drive a couple of hundred miles to a new Camp, or carry a recharging generator. We need to look to the future. DG
depending on where you plug in, you would have a coal powered big rig, or a nuclear powered big rig, or even a natural gas powered big rig!
I have what amounts to half an A/C and a few LED lights on my Scamp, yet I often pay the same camping fee as a bulgemobile with two A/Cs, ovens etc.
What would happen to camping rates when the electric bulgemobiles start showing up in numbers?
I have already seen a motorhome with a Tesla attached which I am sure uses campground power to charge their coal powered car!
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:16 AM   #13
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former Treasury undersecretary and chairman of the economic consultancy Sonecon—points out in a new analysis, American taxpayers subsidize the USPS at a rate that surpasses the costs associated with any Congressional mandate. He estimates that, all told, the subsidies and legal monopolies that Congress bestows upon the post office is worth $18 billion annually.

Alex did I also hear correctly that 1st class stamps are going up?
That's United States Postal Service, emphasis on service.
It was never intended to break even, but to provide door to door mail delivery. The same stamp will take a letter across the street or across the nation, much like the road in front of your house.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:22 AM   #14
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I think that is Home Equity Loans.. Zillow Research says in part:

Even though the final bill retained the deductibility of mortgage interest on second homes, folks buying a second home could see fewer benefits, but likely for different reasons than others.
As for the USPS (and Amazon), that is way off topic, but since you mentioned it.. why is it that we get mail six days a week still when the post office is losing money? With the internet, online bill pay, and now scanned images of my mail being sent to my e-mail every day, I could easily go with once a week delivery. And that means that postal rates could actually go down and still leave a profit or break-even for the USPS. People who need mail sent faster still have the other "over-night" services available. It is past time that we give up the antiquated notion that we need mail every day except Sunday. Starting with Monday, Wednesday and Friday as standard delivery days would be a good move.

Now back to the cost of solar discussion, or maybe move this to the General Chat section.
And what was your position on privatizing our national parks? Those who still want to camp can stay at Yogi Bear's Jellystone Park!
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:26 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by DanielAG View Post
former Treasury undersecretary and chairman of the economic consultancy Sonecon—points out in a new analysis, American taxpayers subsidize the USPS at a rate that surpasses the costs associated with any Congressional mandate. He estimates that, all told, the subsidies and legal monopolies that Congress bestows upon the post office is worth $18 billion annually.

Alex did I also hear correctly that 1st class stamps are going up?
I found this little Gem buried in the footnotes:
" I want to acknowledge the superb research assistance provided by Doug Dowson and the support for that research
provided by United Parcel Service, Inc. The analysis and views are solely those of the author. "

So UPS helped perform the research? No conflict of interest there?

"In Sweden, where mail and package delivery have
been fully privatized, ubiquitous letter-mail service is considered “a competitive advantage for
the incumbent operator, rather than a burden.”"

Letter-mail delivery is still owned by the Swedish equivalent of the USPS. In parcel post, which is open to competition, a 6 lb package costs $18.68 to ship anywhere in Sweden. Using the "unsubsidized" competitor to the US Postal Service UPS, it costs 13.69 to send a 6 lb package across the long way of California. In Sweden, since the privatization of package mail, the cost has risen by 253% according to the U.S. Consumer Postal Council. This is with universal access to post boxes by all companies and with healthcare and retirement subsidized for all companies. Also, if you look at all the postal systems in Europe, the last mile delivery is still a monopoly by one entity, usually the original government postal service now a private company. In England, the other carriers for parcel post pay the Royal Mail for access to their systems of pickup and delivery with regulations making sure the rates are not skewed.

Privatization is not the be all or end all of economics. Just ask states where they sold their toll roads to a private company who collected tolls and then never performed maintenance. The state had to take it over again.

And yes, they are trying to raise first class mail rates.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:35 AM   #16
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...
I have what amounts to half an A/C and a few LED lights on my Scamp, yet I often pay the same camping fee as a bulgemobile with two A/Cs, ovens etc.
What would happen to camping rates when the electric bulgemobiles start showing up in numbers?
I have already seen a motorhome with a Tesla attached which I am sure uses campground power to charge their coal powered car!
I have actually stayed at one place that had separate meters at each site and charged per Kilowatt-hour of power that I used. Seemed like a good idea to me. But it was also the place where I had the power-pole fire.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:39 AM   #17
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And what was your position on privatizing our national parks? Those who still want to camp can stay at Yogi Bear's Jellystone Park!
I can forsee a time when Yogi Bear's Jellystone Park maybe our only choice.
On the other hand maybe it is time for the USPS to go to zonal pricing.
UPS and FedEx don't ship across the country for the same price as across the street.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:49 AM   #18
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How much of the cost of the tariff will the company absorb?
Couldn't they forego a bit of the extra profit made by outsourcing,or maybe just move to a cheaper third world source ?

How long does a good solar panel last?
Amortized over the life of the panel, how much does it cost per KWH before and after that half of the tariff which gets passed on?

So far I can't justify a solar panel on an R.O.C.E. basis, or even find it worth the aggravation.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:01 AM   #19
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So far I can't justify a solar panel on an R.O.C.E. basis, or even find it worth the aggravation.
I don't justify my solar panels on that basis. Everyone's needs are different. In my case, running solar with a large battery capacity is necessary due to my Electric RC plane hobby. I want to be able to charge a lot of batteries without resorting to carrying a generator around.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:03 AM   #20
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I can forsee a time when Yogi Bear's Jellystone Park maybe our only choice.
On the other hand maybe it is time for the USPS to go to zonal pricing.
UPS and FedEx don't ship across the country for the same price as across the street.
Considering the mission statement, and the USO, that would not be appropriate.
However, The load of government and political correspondence which is exempt from postage would fill the deficit and then some.
The result would not be more government cost, but merely a more honest accounting of who is spending what.
BTW, don't cancel your junk mail, advertisers pay a good part of the cost.
To your point...
Remember Air Mail and those special envelopes sorta like Overnighting is today only more expensive.
But that was a matter of speed over normal first class.

I once talked to a car salesman who claimed he lost money on every sale, I asked him "how do you stay open then" He said..."Volume man volume!"
So stop e-mailing, get out that old fountain pen, and write a letter to that first cousin twice removed.
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