Charger? Victron vs Progressive Dynamics vs ?

[Perryb67]

Trying to decide between the Progressive Dynamics 45 amp charger or a Victron Blue Smart IP 22, 30 amp charger. I'm more interested in balancing the batteries than max charging rate. There will be a minimim of 400 watts on the roof.

Victron Blue Smart IP 22

Pros

• Bluetooth
• Works with any battery (flooded, AGM, SiO2, LiFePO4)
• Works with my other Victron equipment

Cons

• Only 30 amp
• Slightly larger footprint

Progressive Dynamics 45 amp charger

Pros

• Exact replacement for existing PD charger
• 45 amp

Cons

• Only for LiFePO4
• Not programmable

Is there another stand alone I should consider?

Thanks,

Perry

[buellfire]

Perry,

You could just keep the original Bigfoot charger and add the remote pendant.

Here is a quote from Battle born regarding lithium batteries:

"The remote pendant charge wizard should be used with the PD9245c in order to put it into the higher 14.4 volt boost mode. This will ensure that the batteries get a full and complete charge for our batteries. Just make sure that you press the boost button when you are connected to shore/generator power otherwise you will rarely see it get into this higher voltage mode".

If you are willing to do a lot of intervention by hand, using the Charge wizard remote control, you can be a bit more “nice” to the battery by running a PD Charger/Converter as a charger for AGM (rather than LiFePo4). “Bulk” Charging will be more slow, at 14.4V rather than 14.6V, but that might improve the lifespan of your LFP battery(s) a little bit.

The other mode which you might desire to use quite extensively is “Normal Mode” 13.6V, which actual creates a very slow “trickle” charge” into the LFP batteries. A high quality, high capacity current monitor can be inserted along the Battery Charge Wire (from Load Center “+12V” to Battery “+” to monitor your SOC: In “Boost Mode”, if significant current is present, Boost Mode” is the right choice. But, if current is extremely low, then “Normal Mode” is more suitable.

I found these on the Battle born website. I have been battling charging and battery storage issues since buying our 25b25rt last spring. I found that the circuit breaker (30amp used with a 45amp charger) was under sized on the charging side of the batteries and that the batteries were wired in parallel wrong. The main positive and negative battery cables where going to the first battery and the second battery was wired to the first. I changed the wiring so the positive was connected to the first battery and the negative was connected to the second. I kept them wired in parallel with jumper wires connecting the positive terminals to each other and the negative terminals together. At this time we are in Florida enjoying the sun, currently raining these changes seems to have helped, still not as good as our escape with 6v batteries was. While prepping for our trip I was researching batteries and found those links. I added the pendant and plan to keep my current charger for a while even if I choose to replace the batteries. When the time comes to add solar to the Bigfoot I may make big changes, however I dislike buying new electronics until I have too, unlike most things with time they just get better and more user friendly.

[Joe MacDonald]

Your batteries would really have to be rundown to see a difference between a 30 and 45 amp charger, A 10 amp charger will fully charge most car batteries in 2-3 hours from dead, so 30 amp should be more than sufficient
Joe

[Catya]

I know little. But my brother, who did marine electrical for decades and who is an electronics engineer "made me" buy this charger: Mastervolt ChargeMaster 12/25-3.

...with the battery temperature sensor thingy.

[John in Santa Cruz]

the newer pd46xx chargers all have a jumper for lead vs lithium.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Joe MacDonald

Your batteries would really have to be rundown to see a difference between a 30 and 45 amp charger, A 10 amp charger will fully charge most car batteries in 2-3 hours from dead, so 30 amp should be more than sufficient
Joe

if my lithiums are run down to like 5% or 10%, it takes them at least 8 hours to fully charge at 50 amps. it would take even longer at 30A, and yikes at 10 amps. but I have 412AH worth of lithium batts.

btw, due to lead acid charging characteristics, given an adequate sized charger, it nearly always takes overnight to fully charge, due to the 'absorption' phase required for that last 20%. They only charge at the chargers peak output for a portion of the 'bulk phase'. Lithiums, OTOH, charge flat out at the max output of the charger for almost the whole cycle.

[Perryb67]

Originally Posted by buellfire

Perry,

You could just keep the original Bigfoot charger and add the remote pendant.

Here is a quote from Battle born regarding lithium batteries:

"The remote pendant charge wizard should be used with the PD9245c in order to put it into the higher 14.4 volt boost mode. This will ensure that the batteries get a full and complete charge for our batteries. Just make sure that you press the boost button when you are connected to shore/generator power otherwise you will rarely see it get into this higher voltage mode".

If you are willing to do a lot of intervention by hand, using the Charge wizard remote control, you can be a bit more “nice” to the battery by running a PD Charger/Converter as a charger for AGM (rather than LiFePo4). “Bulk” Charging will be more slow, at 14.4V rather than 14.6V, but that might improve the lifespan of your LFP battery(s) a little bit.

The other mode which you might desire to use quite extensively is “Normal Mode” 13.6V, which actual creates a very slow “trickle” charge” into the LFP batteries. A high quality, high capacity current monitor can be inserted along the Battery Charge Wire (from Load Center “+12V” to Battery “+” to monitor your SOC: In “Boost Mode”, if significant current is present, Boost Mode” is the right choice. But, if current is extremely low, then “Normal Mode” is more suitable.

Thanks for your info on the Charge Wizard!

After reading your post, I contacted Progressive Dynamics and they agreed with BattleBorn, so the decision has been made to buy the Victron Blue Smart for cell balancing. It's more robust and flexible than the static Progressive Dynamics lithium charger and will integrate into the Victron system. The few times we'll be at electrical hookup sites a 30 amp charger will be more than enough.

I'm having a Charge Wizard Pendent for our PD 6245 charger sent to our first US campsite near Portland where we'll be camping with Oldwave for two nights. Our two 100ah SOK batteries, Victron Blue Smart, and Victron 100/50 SCC will also be shipped to the campground. I have one day to install the SOK's.

Thanks for your info on the Charge Wizard! It made the Victron Blue Smart an easy choice for cell balancing. I really didn't want to fully install the Blue Smart this winter, but since it plugs into an existing 110 outlet can be used this winter if needed. Besides once the Blue Smart is fully installed next summer I just have to remove the two reverse polarity fuses in the Progressive Dynamics and it will just sit there as a backup.

Thanks,

Perry

[Perryb67]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

if my lithiums are run down to like 5% or 10%, it takes them at least 8 hours to fully charge at 50 amps. it would take even longer at 30A, and yikes at 10 amps. but I have 412AH worth of lithium batts.

btw, due to lead acid charging characteristics, given an adequate sized charger, it nearly always takes overnight to fully charge, due to the 'absorption' phase required for that last 20%. They only charge at the chargers peak output for a portion of the 'bulk phase'. Lithiums, OTOH, charge flat out at the max output of the charger for almost the whole cycle.

Our leaded SiO2's NEVER took overnight to go through the absorption phase, not even close (neither did our AGM's). Usually 10-40 minutes for the SiO2's with our 465 watts on the roof. That is one of SiO2's many benefits over flooded or AGM's.

I will admit though, that our GoPower PWM controller and the pathetic WFCO charger were exceptions and did take forever, but you get what you pay for. Like Escape, Bigfoot now offers Victron equipment.

We won't have an inverter this winter so no toast. Our SiO2 batteries were always 100% charged in the winter time in Arizona by noon with only a 170 watt panel (plus 100 watt portable if the roof was partially shaded), so I assume 200 ah's of SOK batteries will charge as fast, and we rarely got below 80% full, so only 40 ahs max to fill.

Our Bigfoot currently has a 160 watt panel on the roof and I'll be replacing the GoPower PWM SCC for a Victron 100/50 MPPT SCC. Plus, our 100 watt Renogy portable, SAE port, and it's Victron 100/20 SCC are already packed in the truck just in case. I find portables a PITA, so next summer I'll replace the current 160 watt panel with three 24v 200 ah Rich Solar panels wired in parallel. We avoid full hookup sites as much as possible and see no need for a DC to DC charger in our situation. Once the lithiums are installed I'll terminate the 7 pin charge wire if I see excessive charging from our F150.

Unless there is something different about our new Bigfoot the only real reason for a larger charger is if we become electrical hogs with inadequate solar. Otherwise we just want the charger for occasional cell balancing, so it looks like we'll be getting the Victron Blue Smart. However, if 600 watts on the roof can balance the cells we've just wasted $202. But then I look at some who have wasted money and time on DC-DC controllers.

Enjoy,

Perry