electrical issues 78 surfside - Fiberglass RV


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Old 05-08-2013, 07:17 PM   #1
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Question electrical issues 78 surfside

so im having a few electrical issues with the surf-side, I am generally good with 12v stuff (automotive wiring) and this is just baffling me. i installed a new fantastic fan and a single din car stereo, checking all the voltage i the wires are all getting just under 12 volts (11.5 ish) but the stereo fuse just blows instantly (yes my polarity is correct) and the fan will make noise but not turn? the trailer is plugged in to my house and getting 107-109v at the inverter and all my 12v lighting is working. any help would be great as it is starting to "harsh my mellow" lol
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:31 PM   #2
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"Inverter"?

I notice you use the term more than once- is that what you're using to power up the fan and stereo?

If those fixtures are 12v:

-They need 12v power, and an "inverter" supplies 110v ( "inverted" from 12v).

-If what you have is actually a converter, which is what you need to convert 110v to 12v, then I'm out of ideas and I'm sure someone else with better suggestions will be along shortly!

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Old 05-08-2013, 07:31 PM   #3
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Your a/c voltage is dangerously low, most items require 120v +/- 10%. I'd try to get that back to normal. Your 12v should be around 13 v, not under 12v. Perhaps once you get your a/c power your converter may increase your 12v output.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Your a/c voltage is dangerously low, most items require 120v +/- 10%. I'd try to get that back to normal. Your 12v should be around 13 v, not under 12v. Perhaps once you get your a/c power your converter may increase your 12v output.
that may be the issue, its all the factory equipment, might just need to spend more $$$$
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:00 PM   #5
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Your 120v electric hookup, maybe your extension cord or your house outlet is the issue. Try another location and or supply cord.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:42 PM   #6
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ok after gutting the entire nest of wires (20 years of "repairs") i have good voltage on from the plug for the fridge - around 117-120 and same with the outlet on the converter itself. out of the other end of it is a white/red and black wire- i have 13 volts coming out red/white combo, so I am assuming the black is 12 volt in from the vehicle (or battery once i install it) red is positive and white is negative. now that i have proper voltage I hooked the fan back up and its trying to spin but just groaning so i assume it is no good from the factory (spins freely by hand) guess i will have to call and try to get parts shipped- i bought it 3 month ago and just installed now so no dealer warranty
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:56 PM   #7
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Try hooking the fan up directly to your TV's battery. You may be dropping voltage (small wires or loose connection(s)) between the source and the load.



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Old 05-09-2013, 05:20 AM   #8
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I agree with Bob's idea, that will show if there is a problem in the trailer.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:23 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by jrocmagoo View Post
ok after gutting the entire nest of wires (20 years of "repairs") i have good voltage on from the plug for the fridge - around 117-120 and same with the outlet on the converter itself. out of the other end of it is a white/red and black wire- i have 13 volts coming out red/white combo, so I am assuming the black is 12 volt in from the vehicle (or battery once i install it) red is positive and white is negative. now that i have proper voltage I hooked the fan back up and its trying to spin but just groaning so i assume it is no good from the factory (spins freely by hand) guess i will have to call and try to get parts shipped- i bought it 3 month ago and just installed now so no dealer warranty
...My converter outputs(not INVERTER) which supply 12VDC have 3 wires: Red for positive of RV battery-for charging-, Blue for +12VDC and White for Ground. Regarding to your issue, I suspect something is wrong with your CONVERTER. First, pls using voltmeter to measure voltage of converter's outputs before connecting to...anything, NO ASSUME in electrical IMO. One more thing, make sure your fan is working by connecting to other +12VDC for testing. Just my thought...
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:01 AM   #10
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Equipment that is designed to run on 120 VAC will operate on slightly lower voltage but 107 VAC is too low. I have had equipment (120 VAC Rated) that at 111 VAC would shut down on its own and then restart like nothing was wrong . When the load is removed the voltage will rise and allow restart but once started the voltage again drops to a level that causes problems . From 112 Vac to 107 Vac is the area where you are in no mans land It may work it may not
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:58 AM   #11
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Just a comment regarding the Fantastic Fan. You may already know this, but be sure to raise the roof vent cover up a few inches when trying to run it. If the vent isn't cranked up high enough, there is a limit switch which will prevent the fan from running until the roof vent is raised up far enough. Not sure if this is your problem, but it's worth mentioning because several others have thought their fans to be defective, only to find that opening the roof cover (cranking it open) solved their problem.

Also, if you are getting less than 13+ volts DC, then you have either a dead battery or a faulty converter. If a battery is only showing 12 volts, it is a dead battery. Less than 12 volts, it is a really dead battery.

As to your 120vac power. I would suggest checking that your incoming extension cord (shore power) is actually getting 120volts to the trailer. If not, I would rewire that circuit. If you are getting 120vac to the trailer, then I would suspect that your converter is no longer working properly. If you found 3 blown fuses, I would think that something fairly obvious would have caused those circuitry failures, and may have toasted your converter too. Let us know what else you find during your troubleshooting.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:07 AM   #12
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The converter (that says inverter on the front from the factory) that takes my 120 and turns it to 12v also has a 12v in to 120 so i guess its both,but its only 9amp's,and after hooking the fan directly to my duel 6v batts everything worked great,so off to the rv dealer i go
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:21 AM   #13
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Interesting!

What's the brand/model on that inverter/converter combination, Jeremy?

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Old 05-10-2013, 02:44 PM   #14
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Its made in manitoba this is the back panel the front says inverter by the 120 plug built in

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Old 05-10-2013, 03:04 PM   #15
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Hmmm...never heard of Powertron 'til this minute...but a search of the site indicates that others have. Here's a link to a discussion of one model: Link.

Frankly, though, you might be better off just replacing it, or even bypassing it.

Some folks pull converters out altogether and run the 12v systems directly from the battery. When on shorepower they just hook up a charger directly to the battery, in effect constantly replenishing any power drawn off while charging is going on.

I don't know the logistics of fusing etc. that might be involved with this solution, but there are plenty of folks here that do!


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Old 05-10-2013, 04:23 PM   #16
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I don't see anything on the mfg tag that sez anything about being an Inverter, i.e 12 VDC to 120 VAC. And, in 1978-79, an inverter was a huge box with lots of expensive parts therein.

I vote that what you have is a 9 amp 120 VAC to 12 VDC converter.
To do it up right you might want to Google the Progressive Dynamics PD4045 power chassis. I have installed many of them in older RV's with excellent sucess.
They are available on-line for less than $160.00



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Old 05-10-2013, 04:33 PM   #17
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What exactly is it about the first three words on top of the label that says anything about inverter? Unless my eyeglass prescription is up for renewal, I'm reading "Recreational Vehicle Converter". I don't see "inverter" listed anywhere on the tag, but maybe it's just me...

Please don't take this as a confrontational commentary, as this is not what I am saying, but one that just clears up the component's real function. It is a Converter, not an inverter, which, in electronics, really does make a world of difference. They are absolutely apples and oranges.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I don't see anything on the mfg tag that sez anything about being an Inverter, i.e 12 VDC to 120 VAC. And, in 1978-79, an inverter was a huge box with lots of expensive parts therein.

I vote that what you have is a 9 amp 120 VAC to 12 VDC converter.
To do it up right you might want to Google the Progressive Dynamics PD4045 power chassis. I have installed many of them in older RV's with excellent sucess.
They are available on-line for less than $160.00
I agree. If there is an inverter, it is a separate device.
I also agree that this primitive old piece could readily replaced by a much better converter.

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What exactly is it about the first three words on top of the label that says anything about inverter?
Nothing - that label on the back does say only "converter". Jeremy says that the "inverter" label is on the front:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrocmagoo View Post
Its made in manitoba this is the back panel the front says inverter by the 120 plug built in
Could the label on the front be someone's incorrect addition, or a label for an outlet powered from a separate inverter which might have been installed later? How about a photo of that one, Jeremy?
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:05 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by jrocmagoo View Post
Its made in manitoba this is the back panel the front says inverter by the 120 plug built in

Attachment 58923
Now, I get your "problem" thru your picture and if my eyes are still OK, this is what I read: 1/ Converter-could be an inverter in other part, not in your posted photo-2/ Output: 12VAC, remember 12V-AC, not DC-No wonder your good fan humming and couldn't turn because it is designed to work with 12VDC, not 12VAC, Buddy. My own conclusion: Unless there is other part which is an INVERTER of your Combo device, no way your fan could work on this...Converter output, because it gives out 12VAC only without RECTIFIED to become DC. All your car bulbs with be OK but not with fan, horn or other relay related automobile devices. The manufacturer didn't do no wrong, the device is good for it's main purpose design. Your fan is good. The problem is your EYES in need of check up, no more mistake b/t 12VAC and 12VDC, Buddy!.,.Hopefully it helps.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:50 PM   #20
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...Based on your posted photo, your "converter/inverter...whatever people named it" is in fact a SOLELY TRANSFORMER. One way input 120VAC, output will be 12VAC or reversely, input on the other end is 12VAC, output will be 120VAC. It's just simple like that and no way in correct electrical terminology, it would be called either converter or inverter. And I guess if your output is 12VAC,-9Amps, the input must be 120VAC, around 1.5 to 2 Amps only. Again, no wonder all your car light bulbs will work perfectly, but your "good" fan is humming without turning and your stereo blew the fuse everytime you put the new one in. That stereo is designed for 12VDC, sensitively IMO unlike light bulbs or fan/horn with bigger gauge of wire so their fuses would be OK even if they are not working. Your stereo fuse will endure a maximum current of 12VAC is in fact 12x1.7321 of whatever it is in case of 12VDC, no wonder it blew all the time. Just my thought, though...
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