Had an electrical fire.....

[gordon2]

One day last week, I awoke shortly after midnight to a “popping” sound and an orange glow in my camper. I quickly looked out the window and saw flames over a foot high coming from the wires that were inside conduit going into the meter (before the outlets) at my campsite. You can see the charring from the fire in the below photo. I turned all the breakers in the camper off and the flames died out. The rest of the story follows but first let me tell you that, in retrospect, this fire was almost predictable and this was certainly a learning experience. Let me explain:

In my camper I have a Progressive Dynamics hardwired surge protector / energy management system (EMS). This device has a display that shows a numeric code that indicates various problems with the electrical supply, such as reversed polarity, bad ground, and low voltage (or shows a zero if no problem is detected). When I first hooked up to shore power, instead of a code displayed, the display had all the segments in the display showing (all “eights”) and it was rapidly flashing. I called Progressive Dynamics and my call was answered by a technical support person on the third ring. After describing the problem he was prepared to help me troubleshoot the EMS. However I had to tend to other things so I planned to call back.

Later that day I got back to the job of hooking up to shore power but instead of using the 30 amp service, I tried a standard extension cord with adapter on the 15 amp outlet. The voltage was 124 VAC and it seemed to work OK. Note that my total amp draw was never over 12 amps and when the fire started it was likely under five amps. I assumed that my 30 amp cord was defective and not the PD-EMS or the campsite outlets. However it appears that at some point while on the 15 amp outlet the voltage dropped at which time the PD-EMS recorded a low voltage condition and reset. Low voltage at campsites is an occasional problem, and sometimes occurs when the campgrounds are busy with lots of people running high power appliances such as air conditioners and the campground electrical service is insufficient. But in this case, the campground was largely empty, and the weather was cool and rainy, so no one was using air conditioning. A normal voltage that drops significantly under load is sometimes caused by bad connections or damaged wires.

When the repair crew came out the next day it was discovered that the overhead power lines had recently been damaged in a storm. The damage was repaired and the outlets tested with a simple tester such as this one. Then the site sat unused after the storm until I arrived and had the fire. When the lines were pulled by the fallen branch, they apparently stretched the wires at the connection to the power meter. That damage was hidden but when under load it started a fire. The prior damage, along with the unusual display and error code on the EMS were clues that something was not right.

Going back to when I had the fire, the flames did die out after I turned off the breakers and disconnected my camper from the outlet. But the fire was before the meter and there was no way for me to disconnect the power. In other words, the lines that had burned were still live. And to make matters worse, there were tree branches close and it was raining so it was possible that water would get into the wiring. I knew this was an unsafe situation so I called the campground office at 12:35 am and left a message. I really did not want to deal with this in the middle of the night or wake people up unnecessarily, so I watched the power pole for about 20 minutes with fire extinguisher at the ready while I decided what to do. However the decision was made for me when (I think) I saw a small spark. I called 911, left another message for the owner, and drove the half mile or so to the campground entrance gate with my keycard to let the fire department onto the grounds. What I did not know was that the keycard does not allow multiple entries. So I was able to get my car through the gate fine, but when I subsequently tried to use it for the fire truck it would not open the gate. We debated what to do for a few minutes. While to the best of my knowledge the fire was out, there was no one close by the site now who could tell us if the fire rekindled. About the time the fire department was ready to disassemble the gate, the campground owner apparently saw the flashing lights or got my two messages and came out to take care of things. I finally got back to bed an hour after the fire, although with no heater, and the next day I received a refund of the electric surcharge fee.

If you ask me, protection for a camper’s electrical system is a good idea. And the brand I would recommend is one of the EMS units from Progressive Industries. I have called them more than once for support and they have been great. That level of service is part of what you are paying for.

(Edit note.. this post originally had the wrong company and link, which was noted in post #8. The info in this post was corrected on 25 Nov 2018 and is now correct)

[Paul O.]

Hi Gordon, Thanks for sharing this story. It is always better to experience such things vicariously, than in person. That campground should have given you a free weekend stay at least, for all that trouble you had.

[Jon in AZ]

That's a sobering story, Gordon.

It's ironic- many people fear the propane systems on trailers. At least with propane all the components are yours and you can control their maintenance and safety. The moment you plug in, you are at the mercy of someone else's standards. How much we take for granted.

I'm surprised the fire department didn't have its own gate pass. That needs to be rectified. What if you called 911 for a medical emergency and were incapacitated? Would you have to wait while they disassembled the gate?

Anyway, I'm grateful all ended well and you escaped injury or damage. But I agree with Paul- they owe you a return visit!

[WizWid]

Interesting story.

Did you ever find out what the flashing "all-8s" was trying to tell you?

[steve dunham]

What's shown in the picture is not that uncommon . Trees fall on overhead power lines all the time stretching the conductors and pulling them lose from the meter socket. Underground service conductors have the same problem due to ground frost .
There is not much you can do except disconnect your trailer from the power source or climb the pole and cut the wires.

[redbarron55]

If you want to see a problem then see what happens when the HV line drops across your 240 volt service line!
Your house doesn't like 7200 volts incoming!
Especially when the power company says that it's not their problem.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

..
I'm surprised the fire department didn't have its own gate pass. That needs to be rectified. What if you called 911 for a medical emergency and were incapacitated? Would you have to wait while they disassembled the gate?
..

They knew the fire was out and had been for 25 minutes, although a single spark might have occurred since. It was the proper way to handle the situation. If the fire was active or it was a medical emergency they would have been through the gate in seconds. And they have the owners phone number now also.

Originally Posted by widgetwizard

Interesting story.

Did you ever find out what the flashing "all-8s" was trying to tell you?

No and I might follow up with Progressive Industries to find out, but I would guess the microprocessor was not able to initialize. Bottom line I think is that any display other than E-0 is something to investigate.

[gordon2]

Please note that anytime I have referred to Progressive Dynamics in my original post, the reference should have been Progressive Industries instead.

(If any mods read this, I would like to edit the OP but the time expired.. Feel free to move the above text to post # 1)

[WendyW]

I'm floored by your cool and appropriate reaction to having a fire, Gordon! I think I might have had the wherewithal to use my fire extinguisher on it, at best, so now I'm wondering what would have happened if I had? Anyone?

Thanks, and I'm very glad you and yours weren't hurt!

Wendy

[Jann Todd]

Originally Posted by gordon2

One day last week, I awoke shortly after midnight to a “popping” sound and an orange glow in my camper. I quickly looked out the window and saw flames over a foot high coming from the wires that were inside conduit going into the meter (before the outlets) at my campsite. You can see the charring from the fire in the below photo. I turned all the breakers in the camper off and the flames died out. The rest of the story follows but first let me tell you that, in retrospect, this fire was almost predictable and this was certainly a learning experience. Let me explain:

In my camper I have a Progressive Dynamics hardwired surge protector / energy management system (EMS). This device has a display that shows a numeric code that indicates various problems with the electrical supply, such as reversed polarity, bad ground, and low voltage (or shows a zero if no problem is detected). When I first hooked up to shore power, instead of a code displayed, the display had all the segments in the display showing (all “eights”) and it was rapidly flashing. I called Progressive Dynamics and my call was answered by a technical support person on the third ring. After describing the problem he was prepared to help me troubleshoot the EMS. However I had to tend to other things so I planned to call back.

Later that day I got back to the job of hooking up to shore power but instead of using the 30 amp service, I tried a standard extension cord with adapter on the 15 amp outlet. The voltage was 124 VAC and it seemed to work OK. Note that my total amp draw was never over 12 amps and when the fire started it was likely under five amps. I assumed that my 30 amp cord was defective and not the PD-EMS or the campsite outlets. However it appears that at some point while on the 15 amp outlet the voltage dropped at which time the PD-EMS recorded a low voltage condition and reset. Low voltage at campsites is an occasional problem, and sometimes occurs when the campgrounds are busy with lots of people running high power appliances such as air conditioners and the campground electrical service is insufficient. But in this case, the campground was largely empty, and the weather was cool and rainy, so no one was using air conditioning. A normal voltage that drops significantly under load is sometimes caused by bad connections or damaged wires.

When the repair crew came out the next day it was discovered that the overhead power lines had recently been damaged in a storm. The damage was repaired and the outlets tested with a simple tester such as this one. Then the site sat unused after the storm until I arrived and had the fire. When the lines were pulled by the fallen branch, they apparently stretched the wires at the connection to the power meter. That damage was hidden but when under load it started a fire. The prior damage, along with the unusual display and error code on the EMS were clues that something was not right.

Going back to when I had the fire, the flames did die out after I turned off the breakers and disconnected my camper from the outlet. But the fire was before the meter and there was no way for me to disconnect the power. In other words, the lines that had burned were still live. And to make matters worse, there were tree branches close and it was raining so it was possible that water would get into the wiring. I knew this was an unsafe situation so I called the campground office at 12:35 am and left a message. I really did not want to deal with this in the middle of the night or wake people up unnecessarily, so I watched the power pole for about 20 minutes with fire extinguisher at the ready while I decided what to do. However the decision was made for me when (I think) I saw a small spark. I called 911, left another message for the owner, and drove the half mile or so to the campground entrance gate with my keycard to let the fire department onto the grounds. What I did not know was that the keycard does not allow multiple entries. So I was able to get my car through the gate fine, but when I subsequently tried to use it for the fire truck it would not open the gate. We debated what to do for a few minutes. While to the best of my knowledge the fire was out, there was no one close by the site now who could tell us if the fire rekindled. About the time the fire department was ready to disassemble the gate, the campground owner apparently saw the flashing lights or got my two messages and came out to take care of things. I finally got back to bed an hour after the fire, although with no heater, and the next day I received a refund of the electric surcharge fee.

If you ask me, protection for a camper’s electrical system is a good idea. And the brand I would recommend is Progressive Dynamics. I have called them more than once for support and they have been great. That level of service is part of what you are paying for.

Very happy the fire didn't get into your trailer. This goes to show how much a surge protector is needed. Many think it is not needed and dumb but I have used one for years. Last year one of mine quit and I bought another one the next day. Thankfully there was a Camping World 20 miles from me the direction I was headed. Surge protectors won't kick on if anything is wrong at the pole or they tell you a problem. We also check with a polarity tester. Have saved ourselves many problems doing this.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Jann Todd

Very happy the fire didn't get into your trailer. This goes to show how much a surge protector is needed. Many think it is not needed and dumb but I have used one for years. Last year one of mine quit and I bought another one the next day. Thankfully there was a Camping World 20 miles from me the direction I was headed. Surge protectors won't kick on if anything is wrong at the pole or they tell you a problem. We also check with a polarity tester. Have saved ourselves many problems doing this.

The term "Surge Protector" is somewhat vague in common usage. Technically speaking, a surge protector only protects against voltage spikes. Progressive Industries uses the term but with the additional verbiage, "Electrical Management System (EMS)" to differentiate their product from a simple surge protector.

I just didn't want someone to buy a basic surge protector and think that they were automatically getting protection against bad ground, low voltage, revered polarity, etc.

[Paul O.]

Originally Posted by WendyW

I'm floored by your cool and appropriate reaction to having a fire, Gordon! I think I might have had the wherewithal to use my fire extinguisher on it, at best, so now I'm wondering what would have happened if I had? Anyone?

Thanks, and I'm very glad you and yours weren't hurt!

Wendy

Before using the fire extinguisher it is important to note if it is safe to use on electrical fires. They are labeled as to what to use them on or not. I myself don't remember, so I would have to consult the label.

[tractors1]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I'm surprised the fire department didn't have its own gate pass. That needs to be rectified. What if you called 911 for a medical emergency and were incapacitated? Would you have to wait while they disassembled the gate?

Most gate opener/operators have a lynch pin pivot shaft; takes 4-5 seconds to decouple the opener and push the gate open.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by tractors1

Most gate opener/operators have a lynch pin pivot shaft; takes 4-5 seconds to decouple the opener and push the gate open.

Reply # 1: Yes I know that but it makes the story more dramatic if we were locked out for a time.

Reply # 2: Thanks Charlie! Now the world knows that I was stymied by a simple Lynch Pin! LOL

Reply # 3: Good to know.. I don't know if the FD knew that or if they were just thinking of removing the four bolts that held the arm on. Either way it would be no major obstacle.

At least one of the three optional replies is factual