Next up a battery. - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:10 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Name: asdf
Trailer: asdf
Alabama
Posts: 346
Next up a battery.

T9he battery was missing when i bought my scamp. Apparently the tv battery supplies the circuit in that case and I didn't discover it until I got home, when I went looking. Anyway I am waffling about whether to go the extra mile with dual 6v golf cart batteries.one concern i have is that the wires feeding the battery from inside the trailer are pretty darned small. They look like perhaps 12 gauge and possibly even 14 gauge. I would have expected 8 gauge or better. Not sure what to make of that. I do know that the charger module is under the seat back by the table at the rear of the trailer.

My other concern is whether the stock charger module will handle a pair of 230 amp hour golf cart batteries. In fact can they even be charged with such wimpy cables?
__________________

jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 06:12 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Thomas G.'s Avatar
 
Name: Kinga DeRode
Trailer: For Sale Or Rent
Rooms to Let 50 Cents
Posts: 5,112
Are you sure you need that much battery capacity? If you use LED lights, a single 100 amp hour battery may be adequate. How about one battery and a solar panel?
__________________

__________________
UHaul and Burro owners, join the UHaul Campers on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/groups/529276933859491/
Thomas G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 06:31 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Name: asdf
Trailer: asdf
Alabama
Posts: 346
Tom I'm not sure I need that much however if I want to do it now would be the time since I don't have any battery that I need to match.

I am a heavy computer user and in fact I just purchased a 30 inch TV to use as a monitor. It is an LED TV and fairly low power requirements but still. I expect to run all of that on occasion off of an inverter. Plus my laptop, phones, fridge.

At the moment I am a Camp Host with free electricity but solar is definitely in my future.:-)
jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 06:36 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Thomas G.'s Avatar
 
Name: Kinga DeRode
Trailer: For Sale Or Rent
Rooms to Let 50 Cents
Posts: 5,112
In that case, you may want to appropriately size the wires and maybe get a better converter. Solar is no longer expensive - I'd consider doing it all at one. Also consider the effect of the weight of those batteries on your trailer balance.
__________________
UHaul and Burro owners, join the UHaul Campers on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/groups/529276933859491/
Thomas G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 06:39 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
honda03842's Avatar
 
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,422
Everything but the fridge draws very little power. An RV firdge on batteries is a true current hog, when boondocking we use propane for the fridge.

Presently we have a Type 24 battery and it is more than adequate to run our TV, Sat receiver, phones and computers. We charge from an 80 watt solar panel, tow vehicle or converter depending on the camping, weather, driving situation.
__________________
Norm and Ginny

2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
honda03842 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 07:17 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Name: asdf
Trailer: asdf
Alabama
Posts: 346
Tom,

Individually the batteries are around the same weight as the group 24 12v. Of course there are two of them.

Duracellģ Golf Car Battery - Group Size EGC2 - Sam's Club

RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Sams Club GC2 vs EGC2 Golf Car Battery

The point of 6v is that the plate size is radically thicker and thus take true deep discharge better. But ya gotta have two!

So there will be perhaps 60 lbs more on the tongue, which is a sizable difference given the trailer. Really though the bigger issue is the electrical rework required to effectively use them. Converters CLOSE to the battery, probably under the front seat. HUGE (and short) cables to minimize drop. And enough solar capacity to keep them charged if boon docking.

BTW boon docking to me includes spending the night in the church parking lot with no utilities, or taking my kids up on the blue ridge parkway to any of the tiny campgrounds.

Anyway, things I need to consider.
jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 07:26 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Name: asdf
Trailer: asdf
Alabama
Posts: 346
Norm,

I haven't given up on working remote for my company, which involves sitting in one spot remoting in for hours at a time. I can see a somewhat different electrical requirement from perhaps most full timers, though what I do is not uncommon either. I was talking to someone the other day who FTs and the wife remotes in every day from the road.

And yes, I could choose to use full service campgrounds but I truly enjoy the peace and quite of less busy places. ATM I am a camp host in a tent loop. As it happens I have electricity and water but I could see intentionally selecting a tent loop on the road just because they tend to be less populated. But they don't have electricity, or this one doesn't anyway - other than the camp host spot. And of course, neither does the WalMart parking lot.
jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 08:36 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
honda03842's Avatar
 
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,422
JWC,
When we prepared our Scamp for the road we located the convertor and 1200 watt inverter under the couch providing a short run to the battery to and from the inverter and converter. We use a heavy set of cables that came with the inverter to run to the battery and just have short jumpers to the inverter from the converter. The solar panels are tied to the output of the inverter and go thru the heavy cables of the inverter to the battery, Thus the inverter's supply cables from the battery, though rarely used by.the Inverter, serve duty for the solar panels and converter.

We installed the converter and inverter under the end of the couch that is hard to get to and hence not convenient storage space though we store some rarely needed things there as well.

Our solar controller is located right above this end of the couch in an over the couch cabinet, again providing a relatively short path to the Inverter's output.

We have over the years met number of people who remote in from the road. The electrical load for remoting is actually relatively light. We never shut off our Internet connection and if we were working we could be connected all the time. Actually it is very rare that we don't have a Verizon data connection.

In reality we have hardly ever run the 1200 watt Inverter. What we have done is locate a few 12 volt outlets arounf the trailer. We sometimes use the 12 volt outlets for 100 watt cigarette lighter inverters and use them to run the TV or Sat dish or any other light 110 VAC device.

We also carry one of the cigarette lighter Inverters in the car for charging the computer when driving or when parked in front of wireless facilitity to again power the computer. In general when driving we will put our phone on a charger.

Though our group 24 has been adequate, it came with the trailer, we plan to go larger on replacement. We will probably get a 12 volt Trojan because we have had such good experiences with our Trojan 105. They are expensive but they were 14 years old when we sold our motorhome and had been fully discharged on two occasions recovered beautifully.
__________________
Norm and Ginny

2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
honda03842 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 02:02 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
peterh's Avatar
 
Name: Peter
Trailer: 2005 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Oregon
Posts: 1,555
Registry
Golf cart batteries have outsized lead plates and excess battery water capacity so they can handle the high demand of running an electric motor that propells the golf cart and its occupants through the grass and up the hills of a golf course.

All that extra lead and water adds weight and cost you probably don't need unless you motorize your trailer and cruise arounf the trailer park in it. For more traditional purposes a standard deep-cycle Marine battery sized to meet your daily energy consumption is all you need.

If you're going to move to solar, you might consider going with a maintainance-free AGM battery, which runs more efficiently. If you do go that route, you should consider replacing your trailer's Converter/Charger with a BatteryMinder battery charger or (better yet) putting a Pulse Tech 12v on-board desulfination in your battery box.
peterh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 03:53 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
The point of 6v is that the plate size is radically thicker and thus take true deep discharge better.
The point of a commercial-grade deep-cycle battery - of any voltage - is that the construction (including plate thickness) is suitable for heavy duty use. Other voltages (including 12V) of battery in the same model have the same construction as the 6V.

I was amused to note when I found specs for three common brands of golf car that all came with 8 volt batteries (six of them for 48V), not 6 volt (of which one would use eight).
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 08:30 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Jared J's Avatar
 
Name: Jared
Trailer: 1984 19' scamp
Kansas
Posts: 1,610
What are the agm options outside of optima and exide? The Trojan batteries sound promising.
Jared J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 02:08 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
peterh's Avatar
 
Name: Peter
Trailer: 2005 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Oregon
Posts: 1,555
Registry
Interstate, Universal, Trojan, Exide, Yusa . . . Take your pick. Most of the major manufacturers that make traditional flooded batteries also make AGM batteries.
peterh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 02:32 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Jared J's Avatar
 
Name: Jared
Trailer: 1984 19' scamp
Kansas
Posts: 1,610
I probably should have explained better, I was wondering what people had luck with. I won't buy exide or optima.
Jared J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 04:59 AM   #14
Raz
Senior Member
 
Raz's Avatar
 
Name: Raz
Trailer: Trillium 2010
Vermont
Posts: 4,714
I have a Lifeline.
Lifeline Batteries - Marine & RV Deep Cycle AGM Batteries
Raz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 06:56 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Nate R's Avatar
 
Name: Nate
Trailer: 1981 Casita 13. TV: 2011 Honda CR-V
Wisconsin
Posts: 118
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared J View Post
I probably should have explained better, I was wondering what people had luck with. I won't buy exide or optima.
Forgive my ignorance, but what's the scoop on Optima, at least in your opinion? Too expensive for what you actually get? Or is there some other issue?
Nate R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 02:33 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Jared J's Avatar
 
Name: Jared
Trailer: 1984 19' scamp
Kansas
Posts: 1,610
I used to run optima red tops in all my vehicles. They ran for years. When I started replacing them, the new red tops failed repeatedly.
Jared J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 02:43 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
peterh's Avatar
 
Name: Peter
Trailer: 2005 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Oregon
Posts: 1,555
Registry
Like all batteries, the Optima has a set of trade-offs. For starters, their spiral-wound, cylindrical design, which hails from the very first commercial AGM battery design, makes them highly vibration and drop resistant as well as very slightly more efficient when accepting a charge.

The downside of the cylindrical design for us RV owners, on the other hand, are many. Their cylindrical design leaves lots of unused space between the cylinders that square cell battery designs use to for additional capacity. A spiral-cell AGM battery's capacity is about a third, 50Ah (Amp-hours) capacity, compared to a box-shape design that packs 75-80Ah into the same footprint.

Flipping back to advantages for a moment, AGM batteries weigh slightly less per Ah than traditional flooded cells do, and the the amount of weight per Ah is pretty comparable between Optima and other AGM batteries. So, if you are trying to save weight and all you need is a 50Ah battery, the Optima might be your best bet.

Another difference is Optima brand doesn't make a pure deep-cycle design. All their "RV/Marine" designs are hybrids that can be used as a marine starter battery and deep cycle.

Finally, there's the name. The Optima name tag seems to boost prices by a third or so per Ah.

Another difference -- I won't call it an advantage or disadvantage -- is that Optima has been using the same basic battery design for 25 years, and a few of those Optimas are still in serviceable condition. With a desulphination float charger you can expect to get 10 or more years out of a quality AGM battery, Optima or otherwise, as long as you don't bust its charge down to flat nothing every year or overcharge it frequently.

Overcharging is, however, a great way to kill an AGM battery. Unlike other designs, there's not a lot of electrolyte (aka water) in an AGM battery, so it's easy to "boil" the water off into oxygen and hydrogen gas by overcharging them. To compensate for this, AGMs have a reaction chamber that re-combines any hydrogen and oxygen that boil off back into water, but it's a slow process that can't keep up if you overcharge the battery often.

I have an Optima in my Scamp 5er. It's been a good performer, but I've learned that the Scamp's converter has a tendency to overcharge batteries and is not good for my battery life. So, most of the time, I don't even turn it on and depend on either on our tow vehicle or solar cells to charge the battery when we're out on the road. When the trailer is in storage I use a small, smart desulphination trickle charger (a BatteryMinder) to maintain my battery.

Longer term, I'm thinking of removing the converter all together and replacing it with a smart 6 or 10 amp charger with a desulphination feature, and will do exactly that with the Surfside project trailer we're working on. (Our Surfside is currently hollowed out and sitting in our garage, devoid of windows, doors, cabinetry, or appliances and detached from its frame. It does have a new floor . . . )
peterh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 03:01 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterh View Post
Their cylindrical design leaves lots of unused space between the cylinders that square cell battery designs use to for additional capacity. A spiral-cell AGM battery's capacity is about a third, 50Ah (Amp-hours) capacity, compared to a box-shape design that packs 75-80Ah into the same footprint.
I assume that was supposed to be one-third less capacity, not one third of the capacity.

The area of a circle is pi/4 or 79% of the area of a square, and fitting industry-standard package sizes further compromises spiral cell packing efficiency.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 07:47 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
peterh's Avatar
 
Name: Peter
Trailer: 2005 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Oregon
Posts: 1,555
Registry
Thank you, Brian. Yes, the Optima has about a third less capacity that a square-cell battery with the same footprint.
peterh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 06:31 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
honda03842's Avatar
 
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,422
Why would any one buy a battery with 1/3rd less capacity?
__________________

__________________
Norm and Ginny

2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
honda03842 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery Charger on Truck or House Battery? dartz Electrical | Charging, Systems, Solar and Generators 13 06-24-2014 07:59 AM
ParkLiner Battery Monitor and Battery Strap deryk Modifications, Alterations and Updates 23 05-12-2013 12:57 PM
Advice please - how to wire a battery charger battery Steve_N_Janna Electrical | Charging, Systems, Solar and Generators 6 06-17-2012 04:53 PM
Charging Battery and running battery lights when plugged in Nor_Cal_Todd Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 2 08-25-2010 01:44 PM
Hooking up boler battery to Tug battery Andy H Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 3 08-02-2007 12:59 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
×