OK Let's talk Lithium batteries

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

In another thread on that forum started by a member who wanted to know about SiO2 batteries, I posted my response and have not looked at the thread since. I figured the Debbie Downers would come out, but beat them to the punch.

OTOH Steve, I'm not trying to sell you or anyone else on SiO2, but was amazed at the closed minds in MY thread there (I ass u me that's the thread you're talking about), and the response you saw. I have an open mind. Once I get enough data on these batteries I'll be posting those observations in my thread. Of course the Downer family will show up again, but I'll consider the sources. However, it was nice to know there were others with open minds who are interested in my reasoning and observations.

There is no perfect battery out there, including lithium. One needs to do their research and buy the battery that best meets their needs, within their pocketbook.

Enjoy,

Perry

I hope you post your results / experience/ observations with your new batteries on this forum and that they are received in a more positive manner

[Glenn Baglo]

I too am ignoring this thread.

[redbarron55]

I was not aware of the SiO2 batteries, but they weigh about the same as the lead Acid and the cost I found (in a very cursory check) was around the price of the LiFePo4, but I have not checked a lot.
The lithium batteries do have an environmental impact, but a lot for the press shows pictures of the huge Chilean copper mines as a blight on the land from lithium mining. Lithium is fairly common and uses a LOT of water in areas where it may be scarce.
Lithium mining involves drilling a hole and pumping brine to the surface. That brine is then left to evaporate for months, which creates a chemical concoction containing manganese, potassium, borax, and salts, which is filtered and placed into another evaporation pool. The remaining mix will take another 12 and 18 months before it’s filtered enough for them to extract the lithium carbonate.
For a while I lived near a super fund site that was the result of a criminal operation reclaiming lead from "recycled" lead acid batteries.
Hopefully this will not happen again.
As with most things the answer is "It depends" and there are always compromises with any solution.

[jwcolby123]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

I can't detect any real cost savings vs the LiFeSo4 batteries in my quick search. Especially taking into account the percent discharge allowable with the SiO2 Battery.
I am currently looking at a 120 Ah battery made with prismatic cells and a separate BMS. It is a little higher than the more common 100Ah, but would give usable 100Ah capability.

They are a different chemistry. The advantage is not cost but higher charge speed (not generally useful for us) and ability to be charged at a far lower temperature. It is generally acknowledged that they can survive extreme low temperatures that would likely damage LiFePO4. Most folks considering these live in very cold places.

OTOH the cell voltages are different (higher) and don't generally map well to 12v systems, thus they tend to be used to create higher voltage batteries requiring a DC-DC converter to provide 12v for our vehicles.

[parmm]

I think the jury is still out on the SiO2 Silicon Dioxide batteries! They sound great for cold weather. But read the linked forum: Silicon Dioxide Batteryhttps://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/firefly-oasis-2-years-old-and-dead-223128.html

[jwcolby123]

Originally Posted by parmm

I think the jury is still out on the SiO2 Silicon Dioxide batteries! They sound great for cold weather. But read the linked forum: Silicon Dioxide Batteryhttps://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/firefly-oasis-2-years-old-and-dead-223128.html

Lol, the jury isn't out for me, they don't work for my needs. Every chemistry exists because they work for some application. Pick the one that works for yours (mine).

[Perryb67]

Originally Posted by parmm

I think the jury is still out on the SiO2 Silicon Dioxide batteries! They sound great for cold weather. But read the linked forum: Silicon Dioxide Batteryhttps://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/firefly-oasis-2-years-old-and-dead-223128.html

You do realize Firefly batteries are carbon foam, not SiO2.

Plus, you need to remove Silicon Dioxide Battery from your link to reach the Cruisers & Sailing Forums. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ad-223128.html

Enjoy,

Perry

[Perryb67]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I hope you post your results / experience/ observations with your new batteries on this forum and that they are received in a more positive manner

Sadly, you'll never get to read my results /experience /observations.

RIP

Perry

[jwcolby123]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Sadly, you'll never get to read my results /experience /observations.

RIP

Perry

OK, now I'm curious. Who (or what) died? Those batteries?

[redbarron55]

I have been looking at the price/performance of the various options and the time I have (left) to enjoy each.
On the one hand the lithium has many advantages, but there is still the cost/ benefit ratio to consider and the time to use it to advantage.
I have been thinking that perhaps a pair of golf cart batteries might be in the future for FrankenScamp.
Frank has the space for the batteries and I often add a second 12 volt trolling motor battery when using the Scamp for amateur radio and emergency training etc. We have to Scamp setup for RV camping and traveling as out mobile motel room/escape pod and as out hurricane preparedness go box with freeze dried food and extra water.
While the Lithium offers the advantage of lighter weight and longer life I wonder if the pair of Golf cart batteries might be sufficient with the greater capacity? 300 watts on the top of the Scamp provides sufficient capacity as long as we are not buried in the trees which has happened each time we have stayed in national and state parks that do not have hookups. ( they seem to also have no generator policies as well ).
DIY LiFePO4 at $500 plus for 100 + Ah (85 useable) or $300 + for 100 Ah from lead/acid? Useful life would be shorter, but either may be enough to outlast me...
It is getting closer to the time I will have to replace the NAPA deep cycle battery that is currently powering FrankenScamp, but I do have an identical battery (A little newer) that I use for the trolling motor for the required Florida boat.
I keep looking at the Chinese cells and have held off buying for all of the above reasons plus we were planning the trip we are currently enjoying and delivery would have been during this time.
Decisions, decisions. Oh - oh what to do...
The passing of Steve Dunham reminds us all that life is short so enjoy it while you can.

[Alex Adams]

JD, the other advantage of Lithium is that they charge to full capacity more quickly than Lead Acid.

[Perryb67]

Originally Posted by jwcolby123

OK, now I'm curious. Who (or what) died? Those batteries?

Steve passed away on June 13.

Perry

[jwcolby123]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Steve passed away on June 13.

Perry

Ahhh... I just received a post regarding his passing. RIP indeed!

[jwcolby123]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

I have been looking at the price/performance of the various options and the time I have (left) to enjoy each....

I am determined to have liFePo but I also must get out there in a couple of weeks and I can't get them together in such a short time. And so a cheap AGM will have to suffice for now.

I promised my little girl we'd go camping and so... AGM it is (for now).

[John in Michigan]

I have used my new LiFePo4 batteries on two trips so far and I love them! On both trips we had heavy tree coverage, but we easily managed with two 100 ah batteries.

[jwcolby123]

I just went for an AmperTime 100ah LIFePO battery to replace my wimpy old very dead flooded lead acid.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...t_b_prod_image

The nice part of LiFePo is that I can just use that for a long time, maybe forever. And if I need more just throw another in parallel.

Next on my list is a solar panel. It is going to take a bit of work to get the roof of the Scamp cleaned and mounting stuff up there so I will need to just set them out on the ground for now.

In 2013 I helped a homeless guy set up a battery and two panels. Worked very well for him. He provided electricity for the whole camp.

[jwcolby123]

LOTS of data. A real eye opener.


https://mortonsonthemove.com/best-rv-battery-test-results/