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Old 09-24-2014, 04:13 AM   #1
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Question on Circuit Panel: Scamp 13

I have a question about something I noticed the other day while out getting my winterizing done. I have a 2012 Scamp 13. I plugged the trailer in so I could use my pump to move the antifreeze (I have one of those adapters that you plug trailer power cord into and other end is 110). Usually (I thought) you had to turn main breaker to "ON" position to get lights inside the Scamp to work. I always turn the lights on after plugging in at home, just to make sure electrical power is working before I start using pump. Just a habit I guess.

Well, I plugged trailer in, and forgot to turn main breaker on to ON position. Turned on my lights in the Scamp as normal, and they turned ON. Doesn't the main breaker have to be to the ON position for the lights to go on? OR...Does the converter automatically convert the 110 electrical power to 12V, with the main breaker only needing to be switched to ON for things like furnace and fridge?

Just clarifying...guess I didn't realize this before, or maybe something is amiss. Thanking in advance for any instruction you may be able to provide.

Sincerely,
Wendy
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Old 09-24-2014, 05:38 AM   #2
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Any time that I am plugged into 110v "shore" power, my converter is supplying 12v and my battery is being charged. The way that I know that 110v is working is by plugging a small LED night light into one of the 110v outlets in the trailer. If the night light comes on, then 110v "shore" power is working.
Ray


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Old 09-24-2014, 05:59 AM   #3
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All of the 12 volt appliances and lights can run off of the battery. It doesn't know if the main breaker is on or off.



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Old 10-04-2014, 11:08 AM   #4
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Yeah but my battery was off the trailer then and in my basement being trickle charged.


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Old 10-04-2014, 11:29 AM   #5
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Hmmmm... Your converter should not work when the main breaker is OFF. That indicates that the ac input to the converter is not being protected by the main breaker as it should be.

Later Scamps have a Progressive Dynamics power center. If so, the first breaker should be the main, the second one the converter and any others are for outlets and air conditioners etc.

If that's not the case you should find out why the converter isn't protected by the main breaker, as well as it's own breaker(s).



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Old 10-04-2014, 12:21 PM   #6
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Sounds like it depends on how your converter is fed. Do you have a PD all-in-one? I would think the converter is fed through a breaker but maybe not, maybe some other internal arrangement has been made. This is one of the reasons I kind of like the wiring arrangement in my old Scamp. The 120V and 12V systems are completely separate. The converter is just plugged into a 120V outlet like anything else, actually the same one as the refrigerator. Good luck.
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Old 10-04-2014, 12:30 PM   #7
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Hi. Thanks for writing. This is all I know. I have a 2012 scamp with a PD converter near the rear trailer wall. That runs to a breaker panel with 110 breakers and 12V ATC fuses. Maybe the breaker only needs to be on for stuff like the fridge and furnace, and 12V lighting will auto come in irregardless?


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Old 10-04-2014, 01:36 PM   #8
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If a Progressive Dynamics Power Cenetr is wired according to the factory instructions, the converter/charger section will have it's own breaker. It's not pre-wired and the installer has to provide the needed breakers for a/c loads.

Of course, to save a few minutes and $$$ someone could have connected the Converter/Charger wire directly to the hot (bottom) side of the main breaker, not knowing that the shore power back-feeds through the first breaker to the AC buss.



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Old 10-04-2014, 02:59 PM   #9
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Yep, it sounds like it's wired incorrectly, possibly from the factory. Contact Scamp and tell them the situation, they may be willing to get it corrected, otherwise you need to have an electrician look at the connections. It probably needs 1 circuit breaker added and 1 wire moved, less than 1 hour labor and $20 in parts.

If you didn't get the original PD installation instructions with the trailer they are available on-line.

When the main breaker is OFF, everything AC powered, including the converter/charger, is supposed to be OFF.



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Old 10-06-2014, 07:46 PM   #10
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I'm posting this so you can all have a good laugh and if course at me. Have a hearty one!

I've owned my scamp for a year and always thought the lower most breaker that says on and off was the main. Looks like a house main breaker...DUH.

Never thought the main could be the top number one breaker as it looks like all the others except for the one on the bottom which looks different and is marked on and off. NO. That breaker is for AC if you have it and the outside outlet.

Listen all works fine and shuts off normally and I'm dumber than a box if rocks and laughing at my own self!

You have my permission to give me a good smack! Ha ha! Live and learn, it's all new to me and all good.

Thanking you my patient friends for your help,

Wendy and vulnerable!


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Old 10-07-2014, 06:11 AM   #11
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Its' all good, I would be worried about you if you were not learning! And thanks for posting, it may help others in a similar situation. I have found that many times in a circumstance such as this one needs to step back from the aggravation and look at it later with a cool head. When I do, I often see obvious things I previously missed.
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:23 PM   #12
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That's for sure! Thanks for the support!

Happy tonight as my electrician came over and we put a new 110 outlet in the scamp on the sofa side. Sure will make life easier for me as I sleep on the sofa and kids on the double bed (they're 19 and 22). I can plug things in on my side without cords draped all over the stove, etc.

Now I have two outlets. Woo hoo!


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Old 07-06-2015, 09:08 AM   #13
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Bob, I have just bought a U-haul 13. Wiring has been cut/ Is there a schematic available or is the schematic the same as Burro/scamp/Casita or something else?
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:38 AM   #14
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Since the converter may have its own internal 120 VAC overcurrent protection and the feed wire to the converter is less than 10 feet long (NEC 10 ft tap rule ) , you may be able to legally connect the converter feed wire to the line side of the 30 amp main breaker .
Not best practice but legal . If the instructions (UL listing) of the converter require a 15 amp branch circuit over current device ,then you need to follow the converter's instuction sheet
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:13 AM   #15
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Converter Power

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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Since the converter may have its own internal 120 VAC overcurrent protection and the feed wire to the converter is less than 10 feet long (NEC 10 ft tap rule ) , you may be able to legally connect the converter feed wire to the line side of the 30 amp main breaker .
Not best practice but legal . If the instructions (UL listing) of the converter require a 15 amp branch circuit over current device ,then you need to follow the converter's instuction sheet
May is the qualifying word.
I just can't imaging connecting a very critical, 5 amp max load converter to the 30-50 amp breaker on the power post and expect any sort of protection.



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Old 07-06-2015, 10:17 AM   #16
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Wiring Diagram

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Originally Posted by meadef View Post
Bob, I have just bought a U-haul 13. Wiring has been cut/ Is there a schematic available or is the schematic the same as Burro/scamp/Casita or something else?
By this many years and owners, hard telling what is wired to what in your U-Haul. I'd suggest tearing out everything and rewire from scratch. It's not that difficult on the 12 VDC side and the 120VAC side is fairly simple for an electrician to tie in.

You can start with almost any generic trailer wiring diagram.

Consider starting with a Progressive Dynamics PD-4045 power chassis. Less than $175 on-line, and it will take care of all your power needs for at least the next 50 years,



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Old 07-06-2015, 10:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meadef View Post
Bob, I have just bought a U-haul 13. Wiring has been cut/ Is there a schematic available or is the schematic the same as Burro/scamp/Casita or something else?
As Bob suggests previous owners may have messed with the wiring so you may be better off to redo it if your having issues. Having said that though you may also be lucky as I was and have a trailer that no one decide to reinvent the wheel on ;-)

In the Document's Center of this list (link on the right on the main list page) you will find electrical plans for several brands - including a fairly detailed one for Scamp. Take a look under the Burro to see if any of the manuals or what ever else has been uploaded has a wiring plan in it - even though it may not be filed under electrical.
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Old 07-06-2015, 11:06 AM   #18
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Like others have said it's probably a long ways from original wiring. Don't be fooled by the fact you won't get shocked from 12 volts, it just as dangerous as 120 Volt if not done correctly. Many shade mechanics seem to think because you can't get shocked from 12 volts it's ok to mess with without the necessary knowledge. It's not. Many automobile fires are caused by electrical problems. Remember automobiles use 12 Volts DC too.
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Old 07-06-2015, 11:49 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
May is the qualifying word.
I just can't imaging connecting a very critical, 5 amp max load converter to the 30-50 amp breaker on the power post and expect any sort of protection.
Standard thermal magnetic circuit breakers of any ampacity provide little or no protection for sensitive electronic equipment beyond possible short circuit protection .All the 15 amp circuit breaker basically does is provide a disconnecting means for the converter .
This is the reason that microwaves televisions ,computers ,converters and other sensitive electronic equipment have internal fast acting fuses. The 15 amp breakers in your house are there to protect your homes wiring and not to protect the equipment that is plugged into the wiring.
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Old 07-06-2015, 04:42 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
.
This is the reason that microwaves televisions ,computers ,converters and other sensitive electronic equipment have internal fast acting fuses. .
And in many cases "fast acting" can be quite slow. In my experience most semiconductor devices are faster Raz
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