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Old 12-10-2022, 12:45 PM   #41
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Name: Cotton
Trailer: Casita ID
KY
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Originally Posted by Perryb67 View Post
We live in Minnesota where it gets -20° F to -40° F. Only an idiot would leave their lithiums outside in the cold unprotected. It's not the weight, but the location in our 5.0 where the batteries sit. I could move them, but that involves compromises that I'm not willing to accept. Even if I moved them I'd have to disconnect them and take them in and out of the camper. No thanks!

I think it's great that those who don't live in cold conditions buy lithiums, but we don't want them for the above reasons.

We have Soneil SiO2 batteries in our 5.0 that are going on two years old. They can be taken to 0% state of charge and be brought back to 100%, but we've never gotten below 80%, so not an issue. They charge extremely fast with our solar and don't need any special charger to achieve full benefits. Our SiO2's are only charged by our rooftop solar, and don't need any special replacement inverter/chargers or DC to DC charging. Am I recommending them to everyone here? Absolutely not! Only those who live with our conditions would benefit.

We also don't worry about the 130#'s of weight for 260 useable ah's vs lithiums +60# weight for around 200 useable ah's. Very, very few really benefit from that 70#'s of weight savings.

Over six years ago our friends with a 23' Airstream purchased a pair of 6v Lifeline AGM batteries for $650, but are $900 today. They live in central Minnesota where every year it goes below -20° F and every other year below -30° F. They have never removed their batteries and don't have to check fluid levels.

This couple has a 2,000 watt inverter for toast, microwave, and blender. Like us they camp in cold weather, 10° F at times, so their furnace is used all the time. He says they rarely go below 70% state of charge, and have never been below 50%. They boondock about 80% of the time and have three 100 watt panels on the roof, with a MPPT controller.

ALL batteries can fail! Lithiums freeze or can have a defective BMS. The only companies I would rely on purchasing a Lithium are Battleborn and Renogy. The rest are a crap shoot. These companies will merely reorganize and open up with a different name, leaving you in the cold. Over the years I've found warranties from small companies not even worth the paper they're printed on.

There are those who want to pull a moblile home rather than a camper. There is a particular Escape owner who does that, including running his air conditioner and induction stovetop. I had one lady ask if I use a air fryer! I did install an inverter to one outlet for toast though. However, we just want to camp.

Knowing what I know today I'd either buy Lifeline or Trojan AGM batteries. They have a track record, lithium currently does not. Our series 31, 110 ah battery in our Casita was 5 years old and running strong when we sold the camper.

OTOH, if you can easily get at your batteries to check fluid levels, and will actually do so, I'd just get flooded.

You have choices. The only batteries with a REAL track record are flooded or AGM's. The rest are currently hype, including our SiO2 batteries.

Choose wisely grasshopper,

Perry
thanks
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Old 12-14-2022, 01:13 PM   #42
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SiO2's are simply AGMs by another name. AGM is Absorbed Glass Mat, and SIO2 is Silicon Dioxide aka Silca, which is the primary ingredient of glass.
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Old 12-15-2022, 08:26 AM   #43
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Trailer: 2016 Bigfoot 25RQ
Lanesboro, Minnesota, between Whalan and Fountain
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
SiO2's are simply AGMs by another name. AGM is Absorbed Glass Mat, and SIO2 is Silicon Dioxide aka Silca, which is the primary ingredient of glass.
We've been here before. In AGM's there is a glass matt that absorbs the sulfuric acid. SiO2 batteries contain silicon dioxide, a very fine power that has a very small amount of sulfuric acid in it, more like a very dry sulfuric acid paste. Therefore it is not an AGM battery, because the silicon dioxide replaces most or all of the glass mat (depending on manufacturers) and enhances the battery's charge and discharge characteristics.

However, since SiO2’s are lead batteries they weigh the same and have the same footprint.

Glass? You have SOK batteries or LiFePo4. They contain Fe, known as iron, the main ingredient in steel. It also contains P or Phosphorus, which is the main ingredient in fertilizer farmers use on their fields. So can I compare the ingredients in your SOK battery and call it steel fertilizer? LiFePO4 has no more steel fertilizer than SiO2 is glass. It's one thing to contain, but another to actually be that product.

You'll also note I don't haunt Lithium battery threads, because I understand how they're built, the differences between flooded, AGM, Gel and SiO2, and where each has a place. I also rarely recommend SiO2 batteries, only for those who will be leaving their batteries in extremely cold environments. There are currently two others on the Escape forum and one here, probably more, that have SiO2 batteries (all in extremely cold environments), but because of members like you, won’t post about SiO2 batteries. For the other 99% of camper owners I now recommend lithium.

If I was purchasing another battery today, and could easily move it in and out of my camper, it would be a 206 ah SOK battery with bluetooth, $1,029 currently. It is my understanding (ass u me) that most heaters only work with an incoming power source (AC or solar), not boondocking at night when you need the heater.

Enjoy,

Perry
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Old 12-17-2022, 09:29 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Perryb67 View Post
We live in Minnesota where it gets -20° F to -40° F. Only an idiot would leave their lithiums outside in the cold unprotected. It's not the weight, but the location in our 5.0 where the batteries sit. I could move them, but that involves compromises that I'm not willing to accept. Even if I moved them I'd have to disconnect them and take them in and out of the camper. No thanks!

I think it's great that those who don't live in cold conditions buy lithiums, but we don't want them for the above reasons.

Perry
Any Teslas in MN ?
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Old 12-17-2022, 09:52 AM   #45
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Name: Jonathan
Trailer: ex-Casita, now Alto R series
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Like my Chevy Volt, the Tesla batteries are internally heated (and cooled, too) to maintain their ideal operating range. That power comes from the batteries themselves by running resistance grid heaters, or by running fluid pumps to and from a radiator.
These traction motor batteries are far larger than an RV purpose battery and have capacity to spare so that they can consume their own power, for a while, to keep up (or down) to temp.
These drive motor batteries are grid charged regularly, every couple of days, and don't sit for weeks or months consuming their reserve to maintain a state of readiness.
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Old 12-17-2022, 11:01 AM   #46
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Name: Perry
Trailer: 2016 Bigfoot 25RQ
Lanesboro, Minnesota, between Whalan and Fountain
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Any Teslas in MN ?
One of our condo members has a 2015 (?) Tesla parked in his heated garage stall. When it gets below 0 F he drives his wife's Honda Pilot. He drives to Des Moines and eats/fills battery at a restrauant on I35, and then gets a motel room in Kansas City, Kansas for the first night. It's near the Cracker Barrel where we camp overnight. They have a home in Palm Springs, CA for the winter and drives there every year.

There are three dealerships in Minnesota. You just can't go as far in the winter because of the heater.

Enjoy,

Perry
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