RV Solar Calculator

[JonRaw]

Originally Posted by Raspy

More thoughts on the Battle Born upgrade:

We had to fit the new batteries into the existing battery tray. This is a specific size on the Oliver and fits (4) 100 AH 6 volt AGMs or (4) 6 volt T-105s. Also, we were able to re-use the existing well made load cables that go to the inverter and connect the batteries to each other. The cables are large and well made. At least the load cables are, but the charging cables/house cables are much smaller. They are #6 THHN or equivalent house type wire. I'm not a fan of this setup! Each installation will be different, just make sure your cables are large enough, made from the right type of wire, not corroded from their use around lead acid batteries, and routed such that they don't get in trouble.

So, the Battle Born batteries have a larger footprint than the stock AGMs, but three lithiums will outperform four AGMs. And three lithiums fit very nicely into the rack, with a small spacer on each side. Plus, the existing cables bolt right on and fit well. Excellent! We made a thin rubber mat to set the batteries on and made them very comfy.

Anyone doing work on an Oliver battery box should look carefully at two things. The rivets holding the frame to the fiberglass will pull out and should be upgraded, if not already done. The catches on early pull out battery drawers had a lot of play in them and would hammer the mounts while driving. This needs to be fixed, if it is loose, and can be fixed with a wood shim to take up the slack in the mechanism. I posted about this on the Oliver site and included pictures of the piece I made to "fix" it. At the time, a number of others found theirs to be loose too, and some have had the rivets fail and the tray come loose.

The Battle Borns come in various configurations. Two of these simply place the terminals in a different position on the same battery. This has no affect on the battery specs, but costs $100. more per battery. We used the ones with the more conventional terminal layout. The terminals on the same long side of the battery. This allowed three 12 volt batteries to be set in a row, long sides against each other, with the existing cables from four 6 volt bats re-used and arranged in parallel. The + and - house cables are set at diagonal corners of the array for even charging.

Three lithiums, with a deeper discharge capability, will outperform four AGMs of the same 100 amp hour rating. So, three fit where four were, and three outperform four. This is one factor that makes the conversion easy in an Oliver, for instance, and should help in other cases too. Where you might be replacing two AGMs with two lithiums, you will get a significant improvement in performance with nearly the same footprint. Then factor in the use of solar and you might not have to upgrade your charger, if it is a newer Progressive Dynamics model. This may be a controversial conclusion, so I am open to discussion about it and perfectly willing to be shown wrong about what we did.

The cost for all of our equipment was just below $3,000. This included three Battle Born 100 AH batteries, the MPPT solar controller and the system monitor with shunt and communication wires. No new battery cables were needed. We were all done easily in one day and looking for something else to do. The system communicates through Bluetooth too, on an app on a phone. This gives state of charge, solar performance, history of load and charge over a period of time, etc. It may seem silly, but you can sit comfortably anywhere near the trailer and study what is going on, or find out how much power you have, or identify potential problems, etc. Very cool.

This is not a hard conversion, but requires some thought and care to make it the best you can make it and understand what is going on with each piece, as well as the overall charging strategy. It is also an interesting exercise in upgraded technology and overlapping systems. You will also get the most out of it by understanding it the best you can. So, it's the kind of thing that is nice to do yourself if you can. At the very least, understand the voltages you see and what they mean. Simple voltage numbers, the rise or falling rate of those numbers, what they are while under load or rested, and when during the day it is all happening, can reveal a wealth of information. With lithiums, if the system gets to 14.5 and then falls back, in the afternoon, before the sun goes down, and is still at about 13 in the morning before the sun comes up, you are golden and have reserve power. Only look for accurate power levels with no load on the batteries and after they have rested for a while. Reading the voltage while under load is meaningless and misleading.

Getting all that for 3 grand is a pretty good deal!


According to the Battle Born Faq videos below:

https://battlebornbatteries.com/buy-...po4-batteries/
https://battlebornbatteries.com/char...ers-recommend/

Battle Born specifies that the battery prefers to bulk charge at 14.4 Volts and float at 13.6 Volts. They specifically say that equalization should be off or 14.4 Volts. I have spoken to Battle Born about this. They don't need to float, but having a float stage of 13.6 won't hurt them. They don't need an equalization stage. It also seems like the bulk and the absorption stages are the same. I have a Progressive Dynamics PD4045 and Battle Born said that it would be able to charge the batteries. It just won't charge them as fast as a specific lithium version of the same charger/converter.

[Raspy]

Jon,

The numbers we are seeing from the Progressive Dynamics charger are so close to the Battle Born ideal, and since we are using the Victron solar controller, which is programmed for their batteries with the ideal voltage and charging stages, I'm thinking it is not critical that we upgrade the PD charger.

This came as a surprise to me. I didn't realize when we first started talking about this that the battle Borns were nearly an identical match to lead acid voltages. No equalization needed, so that should be off or never done. No voltage limited current driven absorption phase, I guess. And a float voltage that seems nearly identical. The rested voltage is higher than lead acid, but that doesn't effect the system. And since there are two independent charging systems, solar and shore, one can make up for what the other might not get just right.

We considered this and my friends were taking off for Pennsylvania a couple days after we finished up. We didn't have the "drop in" charger part for the PD, and began to wonder if we needed it or not.

There is a fair amount of information available on the installation, but not so much on the specifics of this conversion and the decisions we made. We talked to a Battle Born rep and she helped my friend program it differently than the settings indicated in the information we were reading from Battle Born. I only touched on that and don't remember the differences. I'll see if I can get that specific info so we can discuss it here.

13.6 is higher than the float setting in the PD, but the batteries don't need to float there and they will get there with the solar. As I mentioned, they seem to have a rested voltage of about 13.1, or 13.2. It seems the "float" voltage in the PD looks like off to the batteries, until a load is applied and their under-load voltage drops below the float value in the PD of about 13.2.

[charlsara]

Originally Posted by MelH

Below you'll find pics of the configuration and system I use and install for others. The things that I like a lot:

SAFE: LFP battery

MONITORED:Battery data, solar data, and load use all available on Bluetooth. No display panels to install or use. I'm able to maximize LFP lifespan by ensuring it stays above 20%.

EASY: With only two parts (not counting solar cell), it's easy and fast to install; usually 4 hours. This also makes it easy to move it to another camper when the time comes and restore previous one to sell.

Its proven VERY cost effective - Plug in sites cost me about $30 more per night than dry-camping sites. My system pays for itself every 100 nights off-grid.



I've described the battery and system a little more in the classifieds. I hope this helps on things to consider.

Mel,

Some friends of mine have your system. They are very satisfied with it. If and when I decide to install a lithium system I will buy your drop on. I like the modular aspect. Right now I don’t need solar and the lead acid 6 volts are doing a good job.

[MelH]

Originally Posted by charlsara

Mel,

Some friends of mine have your system. They are very satisfied with it. If and when I decide to install a lithium system I will buy your drop on. I like the modular aspect. Right now I don’t need solar and the lead acid 6 volts are doing a good job.

Charlie, thanks for the affirmation! I'm very glad the system you have now is working for you. I'm available if you need me in the future.

[Rzrbrn]

MelH,
Never mind, I found your ad in the classified section.

What does this mean in Post #74?

"I've described the battery and system a little more in the classifieds. I hope this helps on things to consider."

I looked in classified section and did not see anything related. Are you installing these things?

[Jon Vermilye]

Battleborn makes a GC2 sized version of their 100 amp hour 12V battery for $100.00 more than the standard size, although if you ask, they may drop the $ to the same. 2 fit in the stock Escape dual 6V battery box, although the location of the terminals required some modification of the sides of the box to get a pair of #2/0 cables to the outside.

No idea if 4 would fit in an Oliver, however I have "survived" the winter at Quartzsite with a pair of the batteries & 320 watts of solar, using between 40 - 90 amp hours per day. With the exception of the AC, I treat the trailer as if I'm connected to a pedestal...

[MelH]

Originally Posted by Rzrbrn

MelH,
Never mind, I found your add in the classified section.

What does this mean in Post #74?

"I've described the battery and system a little more in the classifieds. I hope this helps on things to consider."

I looked in classified section and did not see anything related. Are you installing these things?

Both the battery and the complete system w/battery are in the classifieds under 'Parts for Sale'. Sorry for the confusion - I should have been more specific.
Yes I am installing these. Another one next week in a Snoozy.

Best regards, MelH

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Raspy

More thoughts on the Battle Born upgrade:

We had to fit the new batteries into the existing battery tray. This is a specific size on the Oliver and fits (4) 100 AH 6 volt AGMs or (4) 6 volt T-105s. .

GC-2 / T-105 6V batteries are typically 220 AH or so at 6V, so two in series are 220AH at 12V.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

GC-2 / T-105 6V batteries are typically 220 AH or so at 6V, so two in series are 220AH at 12V.

John,

You are right, the Trojans are 200 AH at 20 hours. Thanks for pointing that out. I was trying to make the point that three Battle Born Lithiums have more useable capacity than four lead acid AGMs. Four Battle Borns won't fit in an Oliver, but three is still better than the four original AGMs.

I'm not convinced the Trojan 6V-AGMs are really a true deep cycle as they are called "DUAL-PURPOSE" and also list their output in CCA. My T-105s were Deep cycle, but these newer ones in my friend's Oliver were not as durable.

The downside of the T-105s was that they used a lot of water and had a lot of corrosion issues. Plus, by changing to (3) Battle Borns, from (4) AGMs, they must have saved at least 100 lbs of weight

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Raspy

John,

You are right, the Trojans are 200 AH at 20 hours. Thanks for pointing that out. I was trying to make the point that three Battle Born Lithiums have more useable capacity than four lead acid AGMs. Four Battle Borns won't fit in an Oliver, but three is still better than the four original AGMs.

I'm not convinced the Trojan 6V-AGMs are really a true deep cycle as they are called "DUAL-PURPOSE" and also list their output in CCA. My T-105s were Deep cycle, but these newer ones in my friend's Oliver were not as durable.

The downside of the T-105s was that they used a lot of water and had a lot of corrosion issues. Plus, by changing to (3) Battle Borns, from (4) AGMs, they must have saved at least 100 lbs of weight

Since the GC2 format of the 100 amp hour, 12V Battleborn lithium is a direct replacement for a GC2 battery, why won't 4 fit in the Oliver? 2 fit in my battery box designed for a pair of GC2 6V batteries.

I do agree that three Battleborn lithium will far exceed the capacity of 4 T 105's, in fact 2 will be the equivalent. The real world charging & discharging cycles of lithium batteries is amazing.

[OCJohn]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Four Battle Borns won't fit in an Oliver, but three is still better than the four original AGMs.

There's a fellow on the Ollie forums who got 4 BBs in his Ollie. He said he just had to set them in the tray vertically.

My problem would be paying for them.

[Raspy]

Jon, I don't have the part numbers here, but the Battle Borns had a larger footprint than the AGMs we removed. They are also a bit larger on top than where they sit in the tray. Three fit very well while taking up the entire depth of the tray. The smaller overall width meant we put two 1/2" spacers on each side to take up the gap. Beyond that, there was no extra room.

Here is a pic:

[Jon Vermilye]

This is the GC2 version of the 12V, 100 amp hour Battleborn. While I haven't seen 4 of them in an Oliver bay, since 2 fit a box designed for 2 GC2 wet batteries, I suspect 4 would fit. They are $100.00 more than the standard size, but they gave me a $100.00 discount when I bought them on line.

[OCJohn]

Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye

This is the GC2 version of the 12V, 100 amp hour Battleborn. While I haven't seen 4 of them in an Oliver bay, since 2 fit a box designed for 2 GC2 wet batteries, I suspect 4 would fit. They are $100.00 more than the standard size, but they gave me a $100.00 discount when I bought them on line.

Good info Jon. Thanks.

[MelH]

With the Snoozy owner, I just completed install of another ‘Smart LFP Power System’ at a Louisiana Marti Gras Rally. Complete install took less than 3 hours.
I’m now offering 10 percent discount on on first installs to RV types I haven’t yet done - Aliner, Snoozy RVs do not qualify. I do the install with the new owner at a rally after demonstrating the system and giving hands-on experience with new system.
My Smart LFP Power System is shown in the classifieds-parts for sale. It has features others can’t offer like automatic cell-by-cell balancing that extends lifespan, Bluetooth phone monitoring, percent-of-charge monitoring, and easy expand ability.
Pls let me know if interested.

[Rzrbrn]

The shop that I am having my solar system installed is back on line. The quote I just received is a bit different than what we originally discussed. I will try to attach the quote. Please let me know what you think. I hope I did this attachment correctly.

[MelH]

That’s a lot of investment in an RV that cannot be easily relocated (mine can) and may be oversized .

[Rzrbrn]

Not easily relocated? Not sure I understand this comment. My trailer is a Big Foot 25RQ. We seldom stay in one spot for more than 3 or 4 days at the most. We may change our modus operandi however, we are perhaps getting to the point where we might set down for a week or two.

One interesting thing I have come across, and this is more of a generic comment regarding lithium batteries: they cannot be used to jump start the truck batteries if the need arises and vice versa. I had to do this one time with my wet batteries. I may have to carry one of those portable jump start battery packs.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Rzrbrn

...The quote I just received is a bit different than what we originally discussed. I will try to attach the quote. Please let me know what you think. I hope I did this attachment correctly.

The attachment is fine.
For those who don't want to download it, a quick summary:

Six 100 Watt panels
One 100 Watt portable “suitcase” panel
Four 100 Ah Lithium batteries
Controller, inverter, monitor, fuse, brackets, etc..
total cost: $5,642

Yes, thats a whole lot of solar.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Rzrbrn

Not easily relocated? Not sure I understand this comment. My trailer is a Big Foot 25RQ. We seldom stay in one spot for more than 3 or 4 days at the most. We may change our modus operandi however, we are perhaps getting to the point where we might set down for a week or two.

One interesting thing I have come across, and this is more of a generic comment regarding lithium batteries: they cannot be used to jump start the truck batteries if the need arises and vice versa. I had to do this one time with my wet batteries. I may have to carry one of those portable jump start battery packs.

He may mean to a different RV.