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04-14-2008, 11:52 AM
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#1
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Member
Trailer: 1990 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 53
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I want to get a new battery for my Scamp. We are going out on Saturday.
My husband went and bought a "Marine Deep Cycle" from Costco yesterday (but we can return it if it's not the right kind). It dosen't say RV on it at all.
In the Scamp manual (page 9) it says they use a Marine starting battery and on the maintaince page it says to replace your battery with a RV Deep Cell battery. On the new web site they have a video that says to use the RV Deep Cell battery.
So, from what I can figure the Marine starting battery is not what to get but . . . .I'm confused -- is a Marine Deep Cycle the same as a RV Deep Cell?
Maggie
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04-14-2008, 01:09 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Trailer: Casita Spirit Deluxe 2003 16 ft
Posts: 1,899
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Quote:
. . .I'm confused -- is a Marine Deep Cycle the same as a RV Deep Cell?
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Pretty much yes. Pretty much any type of deep cycle will do.
I stay away from starting batteries or combination batteries for trailer use.
__________________
Without adult supervision...
Quando omni flunkus, moritati.
Also,
I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.
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04-14-2008, 01:37 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Trailer: Former Burro owner and fan!
Posts: 9,015
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In our Helpful links section, we have two very good tutorials on Batteries.
Battery Questions answered
A marine Deep cycle or an RV Deep cycle are what you want. The Marine ones are "Gooder" in that they address special needs for boats and marine environments, but they work fine for RVs as well.
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04-14-2008, 03:18 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1976 Trillium 13 ft
Posts: 995
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I have also found this 2 part article quite informative:
The 12 Volt Side of Life
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04-14-2008, 04:02 PM
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#5
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Member
Trailer: 1990 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 53
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Thanks! For all your help.
We were going to keep the Marine Deep Cycle but turns out it was dead, so back it goes. Husband said it was the last one.
Maggie
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04-14-2008, 07:35 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
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Very basically, the word Marine means the terminals are wingnut and the plates are designed differently to withstand shock/vibration.
There are three kinds of Marine batteries:
1. Starting batteries, usually labeled that. These are NFG for RV use. Will only have CCA spec.
2. Dual purpose batteries, a hybrid of starting and deep cycle. Will often have CCA and AmpHr spec. Wally labels these batts DP in the model number. Will say 'starting' in the label.
3. Deep Cycle, meant for many slow, deep discharge cycles. Will usually only have AmpHr spec. Wally labels these DC.
Number three above is better for RV use, but one could get by with number two. Number one wouldn't last long if used much. Will not have starting in label and usually says trolling.
Wise battery shopper looks at date code and buys freshest battery.
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04-14-2008, 08:08 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1970 Boler
Posts: 374
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Costco has some good prices on deep cycles too.
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04-14-2008, 09:01 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2002 13 ft Casita
Posts: 114
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They say ignorance is bliss. I was very blissful until I read this. Im now much less blissful. I just paid $200 for a new battery at an rv repair shop. It is obvious from this article that I did not purchase the right kind. Ignorance is not bliss.
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04-14-2008, 09:38 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
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If they sold you a starting battery, consider going back and asking them to replace it or refund your money (less labor, maybe) because it isn't what you need. And, as an RV place, they should KNOW what you need!
A run-of-the-mill Group 24 (size that fits in your battery box on a Scamp 13') Deep Cycle from WalMart or auto parts store is less than $70. For $200, you should have received an AGM.
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04-14-2008, 09:42 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1979 13 ft Trillium
Posts: 458
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I, too, am in the market for a new battery. I was in a shop today and told them I wanted "power", they told me if that's what I want I should get two 6V batteries. As long as I have the verical room, it would work and would close to triple my length of power. I was talking about a gel and they said not worth it, but even though the cost of two would be close to the same ($200ish) it would be far better.
Any feedback?
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04-14-2008, 10:09 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2002 13 ft Casita
Posts: 114
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Thanks Pete. I will go in tomorrow and ask more questions.
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04-14-2008, 10:33 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
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The BulgeMobile folks like to put in two 6V in place of two 12V. It's really not the voltage so much as it is that the 6V batteries are even better deep cycle batteries than those typically used for 12V, so it's sort of an apples and oranges kind of thing.
Typically, some one buys big RV, finds one 12V battery isn't enough and adds second one (in parallel to the first). If the two aren't closely matched and one has problems, it will drag the other one down early. Even if they are matched, they don't last long (a lot longer than starting batteries would, of course).
So, on advice of others, they get two 6V golf cart batteries, made for many more charge-discharge cycles than typical marine deep-cycle batteries. The batteries are new together, are connected in series (to produce 12V) and are slightly larger than the 12V batteries, so they have more total capacity. They perform well and last a long time. They are taller, so won't fit in standard box; they are a lot heavier because the plates are heavy and the battery is larger.
I don't have numbers handy, but doubling or tripling is way too high. More in ballpark of 20-40% more, maybe, if even that.
The BulgeMobile folks need lots of power because they are running home entertainment centers, microwaves, large fridges (and freezers), etc.
Personally, I would be inclined to just get good 12V trolling battery from someplace like Wally, with one-year warranty, and try that out for a while. I wouldn't spend a lot of money on gel or AGM, which likely have less amp-hours than the El Cheapo lead-acid battery from Wally, Costco or on sale at auto parts store.
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04-14-2008, 10:43 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2005 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 1,555
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Quote:
I, too, am in the market for a new battery. I was in a shop today and told them I wanted "power", they told me if that's what I want I should get two 6V batteries. As long as I have the verical room, it would work and would close to triple my length of power. I was talking about a gel and they said not worth it, but even though the cost of two would be close to the same ($200ish) it would be far better.
Any feedback?
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We have an Optima "Yellow Top" AGM gel-cell on our Scamp for three reasons . . . well four, if you count draining the one the trailer came with down to nothing so it wouldn't hold a charge ever again . . .
The first reason we went with an AGM battery is, if you do drain the battery down to nothing, you don't kill the poor thing. It'll survive multiple rounds of charging and complete discharge before loosing its ability to store power. Given how we killed the first one, this sounded wise. If, on the other hand, you buy a 24-month Walmart battery and kill it, you can take it back to them within that two-year period and they'll give you a full replacement at no charge.
The second reason is all batteries loose some energy as they store electricity, 10-15% for most deep cycle batteries. AGM batteries are 95+% efficient, which is very important if you depend on solar panels for your power.
The last reason is weight: they are slightly lighter than a regular lead-acid battery of the same capacity.
Two other reasons you might want an AGM battery:
First, AGM batteries don't out-gas explosive hydrogen as they charge, so you can install them inside your trailer for better towing balance or to prevent theft. (Regular lead-acid cells have to be installed outside.) Ours is installed outside anyway, so not a factor for us.
Second, AGM batteries are essentially made up of separate 2v gell-cells wired together. Connect three cells together and you have a 6V battery. Connect 6 togther and you get 12V. There is functionally no difference between two 6V AGM batteries and one 12V other than the two 6V have a wire that connects the two of them together and the two 6V cells take up a little more space than the one 12V.
If we didn't have the solar setup I'd probably go with the Walmart deep cycle marine battery. They're about $60; the Optima was $160.
--Peter
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04-14-2008, 11:35 PM
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#14
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Member
Trailer: 82 Burro 13 ft
Posts: 91
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+1 on the optima yellow-top... i've used the same one in my car for ~7 years with no problems, even in sub-zero temps... they are also a bit lighter than the non-gel batteries, so you save a bit of weight, which is good if you plan to have 2 batteries... you can also mount them sideways, if space is restricted... & in an accident, you won't have acid all over the place... i also think they come with a lifetime warranty, but i may be wrong about that...
when i saw this topic, i was going to ask if the optimas will work with a solar-charging system... i like the way it has worked in my car, so i wanted to be certain they will work for my trailer...
thanks peterh, for the info...
--- steven
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04-15-2008, 09:34 AM
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#15
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Junior Member
Trailer: 1994 Bigfoot 21 ft
Posts: 6
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Quote:
We have an Optima "Yellow Top" AGM gel-cell on our Scamp for three reasons . . . well four, if you count draining the one the trailer came with down to nothing so it wouldn't hold a charge ever again . . .
The first reason we went with an AGM battery is, if you do drain the battery down to nothing, you don't kill the poor thing. It'll survive multiple rounds of charging and complete discharge before loosing its ability to store power. Given how we killed the first one, this sounded wise. If, on the other hand, you buy a 24-month Walmart battery and kill it, you can take it back to them within that two-year period and they'll give you a full replacement at no charge.
The second reason is all batteries loose some energy as they store electricity, 10-15% for most deep cycle batteries. AGM batteries are 95+% efficient, which is very important if you depend on solar panels for your power.
The last reason is weight: they are slightly lighter than a regular lead-acid battery of the same capacity.
Two other reasons you might want an AGM battery:
First, AGM batteries don't out-gas explosive hydrogen as they charge, so you can install them inside your trailer for better towing balance or to prevent theft. (Regular lead-acid cells have to be installed outside.) Ours is installed outside anyway, so not a factor for us.
Second, AGM batteries are essentially made up of separate 2v gell-cells wired together. Connect three cells together and you have a 6V battery. Connect 6 togther and you get 12V. There is functionally no difference between two 6V AGM batteries and one 12V other than the two 6V have a wire that connects the two of them together and the two 6V cells take up a little more space than the one 12V.
If we didn't have the solar setup I'd probably go with the Walmart deep cycle marine battery. They're about $60; the Optima was $160.
--Peter
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how come you didn't go with the blue-top optima?
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04-15-2008, 10:14 AM
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#16
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Member
Trailer: 1990 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 53
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Pete--
What is Wally? Is it Wal-mart?
Thanks for the coding -- it seems we got a hybrid.
***
The Optima battery sounds like a good ($) battery esp if we want to put in solar later on. The website says the blue top is for RV's, so wondering about the yellow top usage for trailer? Is the yellow top better for the solar usage?
***
Glad this posting has helped some other battery shoppers.
I don't feel quite so confused, or alone in my confussion, now!
Maggie
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04-15-2008, 12:15 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Trailer: Former Casita 17 ft owner
Posts: 1,498
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Just a note on AGM (page way down). AGM (absorbed glass mat) and gel-cell are not the same battery chemistry.
Optima's starting batteries are gel-cel; they call them SPIRALCELL because of the way they are constructed.
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04-15-2008, 02:04 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
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Indeed, Wally is WalMart. Deals on batteries can be found at big box auto stores, Costco, Sam's, KMart, etc. If one intends to travel out of local region, then nation-wide sources of tires, batteries, etc. should be considered.
Here are some thoughts to consider before spending extra $$ on AGM. It's your money and your choice:
1. AGMs are effectively just a lead-acid battery with the acid in a sponge instead of a puddle.
2. Most (all?) batteries are composed of smaller cells, but the cells may have different construction, like designed for starting or deep cycle or something between. That's why it's not good to mix battery types in a string. AGMs seem to be dual purpose because starting is mentioned on specs and description, but that may be less of a drawback than with a flooded dual purpose battery.
3. Although they outgas H2 less than the flooded batteries, they still outgas. Post from another RV group:
"The NEC made no exceptions for the battery venting requirements in RV's.
The AGM battery manufacturers are careful to state the batteries must be vented.
If you can find an AGM battey manufacturer that has an exemption for venting, please post a link. You'll be the first - no one in the past has found a manufacturer with an exemption."
That said, I know of many folks who have mounted AGMs inside van campers, etc., even on their sides (but not upside down). I also know of folks who have mounted flooded batteries inside, as they used to do in some vehicles like VW. I would do the former, but not the latter.
4. AGM's come in smaller Amp-Hour capacities than typical flooded battery of same nominal size. OP was looking for more power, not less.
5. AGM's reportedly last longer than flooded, but not as long as they used to. They were having troubles with improper charging systems damaging them; reportedly they were redesigned to tolerate a greater voltage range but in the process, they lost some expected life. I believe they also fixed the thermal runaway problem that was happening with the early AGMS.
6. AGM's will tolerate a lot faster recharge rate than flooded batteries.
7. As to economics, I don't believe an AGM compared to a series of flooded batteries is going to prove in. It would be more convenient, however, not having to replace battery for longer number of years. Add to the equation that the warranty on the AGM will expire much sooner than a series of warranties on flooded batteries.
8. Having had a battery stolen from the tongue of my Scamp, I was darned glad it wasn't an AGM -- That would really affect the life-cycle economics... If one's battery is mounted inside, it would be safer and of less concern on this score.
When the AGMs start dropping in price and start replacing the flooded cells, then I will consider them again, but for now I will continue to use flooded cells. YMMV!
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04-15-2008, 03:27 PM
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#19
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Member
Trailer: 1990 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 53
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Thanks for all the input . . . now I know what I really want is a "true" Marine Deep Cycle Battery as I can discharge that down 80%. . . that Wal-mart, and other big boxes, sell those inexpensively with a warranty. (I know now that this kind of battery says DC on the Wally label & will look for that). The battery dosen't have to be purchased from a RV speciality shop.
I also know now to look on the label of a Marine Battery to make sure it doesn’t say CA or MCAA as then it is not a true Deep Cell, but a hybrid, and it should not be discharged more than 50%. Although, it still could be used for this purpose.
Considering expense, the $50 - $70 "true" Marine Deep Cycle Battery sounds like it will do the job, without breaking the bank. We mostly go out for just weekends, so this should be enough power.
Thanks again,
Maggie
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04-15-2008, 06:45 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2002 13 ft Casita
Posts: 114
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Pete, you were right. I did purchase an AGM battery. Obviously not an informed purchase, but it's done now and it sounds like this battery will work fine.
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