2015 Scamp Deluxe Sewage Pipe Breaks

[mgellar]

Hi,
My wife and I returned from our first away-from home overnighter in our 2015 Scamp 16' Deluxe. We really love the Scamp and are happy with our choice. Everything went fine until the morning.

The problem that occurred was when I went to unscrew the cap on the black tank pipe. Instead of the cap coming off, the entire pipe twisted off as it broke off where it was connected at the top of the floor. I could see the two layers of wood in the hole where the pipe was. Not a happy camper about that.

I talked to Kent, who I believe is the owner or one of the owners at Scamp. He said they are aware of the problem as it has been happening on the new Deluxes. Apparently their manufacturer changed something on the part and didn't let them know. He said the pipe vibrates while traveling and they did not install a strap (like the grey tank pipe) and they're just breaking off. I took it to a local RV dealer who will fix it. Kent recommended they put a strap on it. Scamp will pay for the repair.

Since Scamp knows about this problem, I'm not happy that they didn't contact the new owners and at least recommend to them to get a strap put on to support the pipe, to spare having it break on them.

Mike

[Cathy P.]

Frankly, I have heard of other issues where Scamp was contacted and Scamp was aware of the problem yet.............. This was the reason I decided not to order a new one. I cannot understand knowing there is a problem and just letting it go.

[gordon2]

This is the SECOND report of this failure I have seen.. the first was on Facebook and dated June 19 from Mary Grave Wurtz She posted photos and said this:

Look what happened the 2nd time we dumped the toilet tank. I repeat the 2nd time. The whole thing fell off! Lucky it didn't happen on the road, would hate to leave a DNA trail. I emailed Scamp and sent these photos along with a request to call me. That was Monday today is Friday and still no call!
Lucky my husband is handy and he fixed it plus he braced it which hadn't been done. The gray water one was braced thank goodness.

And later she said:

Picked it up in April this year. Only been out twice. But this won't stop us at all . Fixed and going out again real soon.

And still later she commented:

The fitting was cermented (sic) properly but the vibration broke the fitting off at the threads because there was no support. This is what my husband told me. So bottom line is it fell off from no support.
I will call Scamp on Monday to let them know so it doesn't happen to someone else.

Take from that what you will.. it does bother me that this problem, along with the door latch failing and allowing the door to open while on the road, were apparently not fixed or redesigned in a timely fashion.

On the other hand, these problems are now documented and repairs should be easy enough. Maybe it goes with the lower cost of the Scamps compared to Escape, Casita, etc. I will be sure to check for proper support when I pick up my Scamp. Thanks for the heads up.

EDIT: Adding Mary's last comment:

I did not hear back from Scamp after I sent the email with the pictures. My husband fixed it and I have to confess I didn't follow up. But I just got off the phone having called Wayne who said he had forwarded it to the the factory and asked them to send me parts ( never got any) I was then forwarded to Kent who said that he was aware of this issue having happened recently and they are now bracing the black water pipe. Always had braced the gray water pipe in the past but never had a issue with needing to brace the black water one. Stated this must be some change with the manufacturer.
I am to scan my reciept for the part and email it to him.
I know nothing about Casitas but I do know that even with the issues we've had I still love my Scamp! I enjoy this form because of all the shared info and learn from others experiences. Nothing in this world is perfect until we make it so. So I say "Scamp on" and enjoy life!!

[Darwin Maring]

I had a problem where the axle assembly was ripping off the frame. Appeared to be the wrong axle. I contacted the same person and he replied he would send me a new axle and pay for the removal and installation. He sent a new Dexter axle and When I told him the dollar amount for the removal and installation he said that was to high and sent me something less than what it actually cost. So much for his word.

I was not the only one with this problem on a 5r and it really should have triggered a recall and it didn't. Can you image what could have happened if either side or both had came off the frame while at highway speed.

While many people on this form have one of their products, there is more and more negative posts about that guy.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Cathy P.

Frankly, I have heard of other issues where Scamp was contacted and Scamp was aware of the problem yet.............. This was the reason I decided not to order a new one. I cannot understand knowing there is a problem and just letting it go.

I have heard repeatedly of situations where people have had minor issues with their new Scamp and have had the company bend over backwards to respond immediately to satisfy the complaint.
I have seen them pay for repairs for which they were not in the least responsible for the damage.
I have had eleven years of dealing with Scamp and have found them to be polite and responsive to every inquiry or request.
This is a small company which has become by far the most successful fiberglass trailer manufacturer over the last forty-five years by taking pride in their product and giving unsurpassed customer service.

I have owned more than two dozen fiberglass trailers of many different brands and have worked on most of the rest.
I now have had my Scamp for eleven years and have yet to see anything for which I would trade it.
This is intended to offer a perspective and a counterpoint to the direction this thread is heading...bash on.

[mgellar]

Thanks, Floyd. My experience and the couple of posts following mine did raise concerns about safety, quality and customer service. It's often you hear complaints more than when things are fine.

[gordon2]

Thanks for that perspective Floyd. In fact, I have heard of many cases where Scamp seems to stand by their product, so I am still planning on buying one.. however I still have concerns over these reports. It seems that Scamp is slow to change anything, which is good for the most part as it is a proven product. But they don't seem to be quick to deal with the very rare design or manufacturing problem that crops up. Maybe that is because they don't have much experience dealing with problems because they happen so rarely!

Also note that "Mary" never got a reply to her email (with photos) that documented the sewer drain break (nor the repair parts she was promised), yet I have emailed them at least four times and always received a reply in a day or two at most.

Come to think of it.. with a six month lead time to get a Scamp.. they might be overwhelmed at present.

Well, in sum, I am happy to support this long standing family oriented business. At the same time, I hope they don't drop the ball going forward.

PS. Hope I did not bash too hard.

[Joy A]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Thanks for that perspective Floyd. In fact, I have heard of many cases where Scamp seems to stand by their product, so I am still planning on buying one.. however I still have concerns over these reports. It seems that Scamp is slow to change anything, which is good for the most part as it is a proven product. But they don't seem to be quick to deal with the very rare design or manufacturing problem that crops up. Maybe that is because they don't have much experience dealing with problems because they happen so rarely!

And then there are lots of folks like me that have had absolutely zero problems with their Scamps. 15 Years and going strong. Some 88,000 miles plus. I also agree that often on sites like this you hear more complaints and problems because people are often looking for help. Why would you complain if you have no problems, duh.

And, I do have a gray water tank, no black water. There is a brace and strap on the exit pipe.

Go forward with your Scamp you won't regret it.

[rbryan]

A non-Scamp owner's perspective: they are quality trailers. That much is clear. The company would not be a success and still be building them if they weren't. But, if I sent emails and made phone calls to my trailer manufacturer about a problem, and got no response (as has been stated above) that would give me serious pause.

One of the reasons we chose the brand we did was that we contacted another fiberglass trailer manufacturer (not Scamp) by email or the contact us link on their website and got no response. We tried a second time and still no response. To this day, over a year later, still no response. When we inquired about the brand we eventually bought, there was a welcome letter, price and spec sheet and an option sheet in our inbox 10 minutes later. That is service.

Another example: there have been many instances where my fellow owners have had the factory repair or replace defective items in the trailer well after the warranty expired, and at no cost.

I don't think you can go wrong choosing any brand of Fiberglass trailer. The concept is sound, and the designs have so many advantages. But, there are differences in customer service, and for us, that's a prime concern.

[Cathy P.]

I have been reading this website for over 8 years and also read elsewhere regarding fiberglass molded trailers. It has been an education.

I expect quality control and customers service whether I am buying the most expensive unit or the least expensive.

Doors flying open and sewer pipes falling off, ah, just not something I would want to deal with on a new unit when the manufacturer was aware of the problem to begin with. That just makes sense to me. My choice. Others are free to make their own choices as usual.

Coming from the stick and tin world, I have realized that you encounter a new set of possibilities when switching to the fiberglass molded trailers.

Plan at this point to keep stuffing my trailer fund while continuing to study the possibilities.

[steve dunham]

Working in the building trades we often recieved plastic piping parts that were improperly manufactured . Threaded fittings were the worst.
The threaded portion of the fitting would snap off from the base even when properly supported .One batch of fittings was fine and the next batch was junk but there is no way of knowing until they start breaking. I am not defending Scamp but. there is no way for Scamp to tell from a visual inspection
Scamp relies on its suppliers like all. manufacturers to provide quality parts just like we expect Scamp to furnish a quality trailer

[mgellar]

I understand that part and don't hold that against Scamp. I am puzzled why they didn't from the start strap the black tank as they do the grey. And am bothered that once they knew about the problem why didn't they at least send out an e-mail to those who bought the new models with the known defective parts to let them know to at least get a strap put on.

[mgellar]

...oh you wrote the support wouldn't necessarily prevent the defective part from breaking....so they should have notified us to have the pipes replaced....apparently it's on their new Deluxe models so they're aware where they have been used

[gordon2]

Steve makes a good point and I don’t think anyone is holding Eveland’s (Scamp) responsible for the problem if it was caused by the manufacture of the part(s), and that DOES seem to be the case here. Since “Mary” did not follow-up and her email might have been lost or even undelivered, I only know of one case where this problem was definitely reported to Scamp. And that case could have easily been attributed to road damage or some other anomaly.

However it is reported that Kent himself said it was a known problem. If that is the case then how should they deal with it? Certainly they should add a support bracket if that is the cure. But is that the cure, or is the threaded connection the problem? One cannot provide a fix if you don’t know what the problem is.

Should they also be proactive and contact owners who might or might not have the same manufacturing issue? That’s a fair question with perhaps enough unknowns to answer fairly. I know that if I were an owner, I would be happier hearing from Scamp that there might be a problem, and what to look for, what to do if I do have a failure, etc. (rather than hearing about it on Facebook). Even if they say the cause is not known and under investigation, and ask owners to call them if they have a problem - that would give me a warm fuzzy feeling. If they don’t want to send letters (which might be unneeded and quite an expense), then a FAQ page on their web site could have mention it. I get that they might not want to announce negative things because the competition will pounce on that, but that’s a heck of lot better than leaving the impression that maybe, just maybe, they are covering something up. I applaud Kent for at least admitting the problem exist when someone talked to him.. but admitting you have a problem is just the first step (to borrow a phrase from AA).

As for their email communication, I can’t fault them too much because I have seen so many companies who have jumped on the internet bandwagon but really dropped the ball in doing so. I can’t count how many times I have tried to contact a company through a web page feedback form or email, and never got a reply. Still, Eveland’s email (and phone) communication with me as been just fine. Larger and more savvy companies also spend some resources on keeping up with online activity related to their product, such as this forum - small and busy companies not so much.

As for the door issue, from what I have read it seems that there might have been a manufacturing change on the latch so that it did not hold as well when on the road. One poster said they got one replacement latch from Eveland’s that was about the same size, but later, after they still had problems, they got a bigger / beefier latch (all at no cost).

So it is apparent that Eveland’s is dealing with these issues to some extent at least. But again, it seems that they leave it up to the owner to call them when and if they have a problem, rather than the other way around. If a problem is rare, I’m fine with that, but if it affects the majority of trailers built over some time period, then I do think they should reach out the owners.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Cathy P.

I have been reading this website for over 8 years and also read elsewhere regarding fiberglass molded trailers. It has been an education.

I expect quality control and customers service whether I am buying the most expensive unit or the least expensive.

Doors flying open and sewer pipes falling off, ah, just not something I would want to deal with on a new unit when the manufacturer was aware of the problem to begin with. That just makes sense to me. My choice. Others are free to make their own choices as usual.

Coming from the stick and tin world, I have realized that you encounter a new set of possibilities when switching to the fiberglass molded trailers.

Plan at this point to keep stuffing my trailer fund while continuing to study the possibilities.

Cathy;
I have spent nearly half a century fixing just about everything that breaks or was built with an imperfection.
One thing I know for certain is that every product ever produced has a failure rate... no exceptions.
Another thing is certain as well, there will always be inconsolable customers who will magnify any flaw or failure which occurs.
Like falling in love, you tend to minimize or overlook the flaws in a product to which you are committed.

The fact is... you will buy a flawed product or you will buy no product at all.

Once you choose, make a commitment to your choice to care for it and maintain it. Think of it like the difference between your dream house and a rental property. The dream house will take more of your time and effort to maintain, but you will never know it.

I think Scamp would be a fine choice but you should get a stack of twenty dollar bills equal to the price of your prospect, stack them on your kitchen table alongside a photo of your favorites, then buy the one that you want more than that stack!
You must love it first to see the perfection emerge!


Addendum;
I have a Mustang convertible which has come of age, it is perfect and performs and looks better than new.... less than a block from my house is a Mustang convertible of the same vintage, sadly sitting, blocking the public sidewalk for several years, hardly worth the fuel it would take to haul it off for scrap. I really hope some teenager will find it and watch the perfection emerge once again....If not, a few of its parts will be scavenged and the balance recycled.
These cars were once peers, emerging perfect from the assembly line perhaps on the same day. The real difference was in the eye and the attitude of the buyers.

[mgellar]

If there was a "Like" button I would have clicked that for your comment!

[Cathy P.]

Thanks, Floyd. I appreciate the time and effort that you put into your post. I studied Marketing some in college and yes, "price versus value" is always in play and I weigh that principle carefully. As I mentioned before, we are on #8 of stick trailers and I worked at New Horizons for 3 years in the office (direct sales of high end 5th wheels) and for me, I am looking for the lesser of the evils, the products that will cause me the least concern. When the same problem comes up, that is where I have the most concern. I also studied quality control.

Scamp is doing well and the used units are so much in demand that I have no chance of getting a used one in my area so I am sure that overall, they are a worthy product. The Deluxe surpasses all others in beauty, the weight comes in lower than others and allows many who couldn't otherwise have a trailer to purchase one and tow with a current vehicle. The Scamps seem to last forever with maintenance. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is maintenance free as we all know here on the forum.

Floyd, I always enjoy your posts and get a lot of info from them. I did not in any way mean to be overly critical of Scamp. All units have their good points and their lesser ones.

[mgellar]

Update - we got our Scamp back from a local huge-RV dealer who repaired/replaced the broken sewage pipe line and did a very nice job securing it to the frame with metal strips on each side of the valve. They had no problem calling Scamp as directed, who paid for the repair with their credit card. Soon after I posted previously, I wrote Kent Eveland mentioning it would be nice if they had let new owners know of the problem, and I provided the link to this forum/post and inquired/suggested they monitor this for suggestions owners have. I didn't get a reply, but yesterday I sent him an e-mail thanking him for taking care of the repair and he replied right away he was glad it was taken care of. So, the reactive customer service was fine.

[Franswa]

quite frankly I'm surprised we don't hear about broken drain pipes more often in ALL trailers....so often a run of pipe is a fair horizontal distance...the pipe itself is very brittle and then you add constant vibration during travel...not to mention owners reefing/overtightening caps and valves......

having spent years in the underground utility industry, the above is an absolute "torture test" of the product being used....it's just the WRONG application period. In many instances in the trade, either because of code rules or simply "best practice" considerations a flexible coupling is used SOMEWHERE in the system where shear forces will/could be the greatest (insurance against failure).........yet all trailer builders continue to just use brittle house plumbing parts and just glue the whole mess together with no flex/vibration damping element at all......just don't make sense to me...other than the fact it's the cheapest way to go

[ruscal]

Most "house plumbing" is pretty tough stuff. Here in so Cal we use ABS sewer pipe or DWV. It is typically very tough, and can handle quite a bit of abuse. Back in the 1970's there were some ABS manufacturers that used some bad chemistry which produced very brittle pipe that had many failures. I can see a company like Eveland using ABS without support in that application successfully for many years, and then get a bad batch that just didn't have the properties to stand up. We saw just that scenario in the building industry. PVC is another commonly used plastic. It also is very tough and will work when stressed to a degree. It can be used for patio furniture for example. Some areas approve PVC for DWV use. I would question the pipe before blaming the lack of support for the failure since it has worked for the last 45 years. Adding support is a good idea, but check the pipe and cement.
Russ