Alternative water storage

[Ruralredhead]

Hi friends,
The previous owner of my 2002 Scamp removed the fresh water storage tank in favor of storage. We do not have a city water connection. I will be traveling with my 2 kids and can use the storage but I would still like some on-board water storage capacity (other than a free floating jug). I found this idea to relocate small jugs under the sink. I would use 3.6 gallon "waterbricks" with holes drilled in the lids and I would strap the tanks down. Blue for fresh tan for grey. I could also use a portable grey water tank outside the Scamp. I am so new to this I just wanted to be sure I am thinking this through correctly. Any input?




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[Ruralredhead]

One more thing, I will be using a hand pump sink with this set up.


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[Jon in AZ]

Seems like a fairly workable solution. I wish I had space for something like that- mine has a furnace right under the sink. The only issue I can see might be cleaning them, since those holes get in the way. Only being 3.5 gallons, I might buy two, at least for the fresh water, so you'll have a spare ready to go when one runs out. Only one lid would need to have a hole, and it would be nice to have a spare lid without a hole for transport. You could also put the grey tank outside (odors?), since the drain should already be connected to an external fitting. Of course, then critters might become a problem...

[Carol H]

Very Cool idea. Have no comment as to how well it may or not work though.

You can if you wanted add a City Water connection to the trailer pretty easily/cheaply as well, if that is something you were also wanting.

[Bill Nolen]

The waterbrick storage container looks neat, and would fit into the space i have available,

However, I'm wondering what advantages does the "brick" design have over other water containers if a person doesn't plan on stacking the containers?

Bill

[Scamper Jim]

Miriam,

Using jugs for supplying fresh water would work fine, but I would not use one inside for holding grey water.

If it is accidentally overfilled it could leak out of the opening between the hose and the cap and make a mess under the cabinet. Even if it were sealed completely tight and the water backed up into the sink when full, an even bigger mess could be created when you tried to remove and switch the hose to a new jug. It would be much safer to run the gray hose to the outside of the camper to a jug there. Any spills there would not ruin your day.

Jim

[Ruralredhead]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Seems like a fairly workable solution. I wish I had space for something like that- mine has a furnace right under the sink. The only issue I can see might be cleaning them, since those holes get in the way. Only being 3.5 gallons, I might buy two, at least for the fresh water, so you'll have a spare ready to go when one runs out. Only one lid would need to have a hole, and it would be nice to have a spare lid without a hole for transport. You could also put the grey tank outside (odors?), since the drain should already be connected to an external fitting. Of course, then critters might become a problem...

I didn't think about cleaning the waterbricks. I also didn't think about critters on an external gray tank. Good points. Good thing is that these parts are all relatively inexpensive so I could replace them if necessary. I'm not much of a plumber but this seems simple enough. I'll post pictures when it's all in place.


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[Ruralredhead]

Originally Posted by Scamper Jim

Miriam,



Using jugs for supplying fresh water would work fine, but I would not use one inside for holding grey water.



If it is accidentally overfilled it could leak out of the opening between the hose and the cap and make a mess under the cabinet. Even if it were sealed completely tight and the water backed up into the sink when full, an even bigger mess could be created when you tried to remove and switch the hose to a new jug. It would be much safer to run the gray hose to the outside of the camper to a jug there. Any spills there would not ruin your day.



Jim

Really good point Jim. I will heed your advice and put the grey tank outside. I have a storage box on the tongue and it has some room in it. I have seen fresh water "bags" that are collapseable, I wonder if that would work?


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[ZachO]

I had similar ideas to this when I was rebuilding my Chinook. I actually left the fresh water tank in place, though, for dishes, tooth brushing and solar shower water. But I wanted something I'd feel safe drinking out of. And if it was strapped down and connected to a faucet (mine would have been hand pump also), even better!

But I never did it.

I just carried loose jugs of drinking water. Only thing I'll say about the water bricks is that they aren't very durable. I used two of them when I started traveling in the Chinook. I think if they were strapped down securely they might be ok. But the small amount of moving mine did in the coach of my rv quickly wore a hole through one. It didn't quite last one summer.

I just got rid of the other and bought these instead.

"Boondocking" is all I do, so I guess I needed something a little more tough.

[Ruralredhead]

ZachO thanks for the info on the water containers. I had read a few reviews of waterbricks leaking but I didn't consider them wearing out.


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[tractors1]

Originally Posted by Ruralredhead

Really good point Jim. I will heed your advice and put the grey tank outside. I have a storage box on the tongue and it has some room in it. I have seen fresh water "bags" that are collapseable, I wonder if that would work?


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Collapsible bags/jugs are great for gray water as there is no need for a vent on them (start out flat.) Most of them are clear so you can tell when it's time to dump.

Set up a garden hose style fitting for them (or piping and clamps) for your gray discharge. No vent means no critters are attracted by any odor.

[Timber Wolf]

We carry well rinsed milk jugs for our drinking, cooking, and tooth brushing water. They are a handy size, are free, constantly replenished (we drink lots of milk), and recyclable.


I am sorry to hear the Waterbricks are not durable. I had previously looked at them and they would fit perfectly under the front bench and back dinette (bed) in the Scamp. Gallon milk jugs in a milk crate fit great too.

[Kai in Seattle]

We're also thinking of carrying water in portable jugs, probably the kind that come with distilled water...but milk jugs would do for a time or two...the plastic holds some of the milkfat and goes rancid in time, but you wouldn't have to keep them for years, after all. Paul has eliminated all water hoses inside; he refuses to replace what helped make such a mess out of the interior including gas lines and water lines. The fresh water tank had cracked and rotted the floor--plus it was full of dead "bugs." Made me feel pretty sick when he brought it inside and we had a long close look at it.
We were thinking of just using a "basin" inside, but hadn't quite gotten to the question of drainage. A collapsible gray water tank for outside sounds like it might work, though some campgrounds absolutely forbid you to have any such catching devices outside the trailer.
We won't be doing much cooking (microwave heating only) and plan to use only biodegradable dishes (corn starch utensils, straw plates, etc.) But we won't be full-timing, and may not do any long trips. We're thinking of it mostly as a picnic zone, with those small, tea-bag type coffee packets you drop into a cup of very hot water to cup-brew coffee. So, we don't plan on washing dishes when camping. We'll eat mostly cold food, though small pizzas and TV dinners can be done in the microwave (still no dishwashing).
We'll use a 7-day ice chest for cooling. We're just going "One Step Up" from a tent in terms of galley and bathroom...we'll have a porta-potti with the biodegradable bags and we're going to try the sawdust method, so that we can possibly manage a 3 or 4 day trip before emptying, and haul it home (ugh, but we know how to deal with it at home). Depending on the campground regulations.
The amount of damage caused by the water and abraded gas lines (the gas and poop and rot smell was hardly noticible the first hour. After towing home, it was overwhelming) just made Paul decide we had to consider alternatives to the full-service trailer we thought we'd gotten.

With the porta-potty, and we may end up buying a much better unit eventually, and the campground restrooms, and our "crocs" rubber shoes for showering in, I think we can manage.

After all, we're camping! If I wanted to be entirely comfortable, I could stay home!

KISS: Keep It Simple, Sweetheart!

[RogerDat]

The drain running to the standard outside fitting would be best. A short piece of hose to go from that standard fitting and clamp to a drain container as has been suggested sounds like a good idea.

I would make the drain container slightly larger than water source container to avoid issue of over flowing. To draw water out of a jug with the pump faucet air has to flow into the jug. Or jug has to collapse which I do not think will work well under the sink.

Don't forget water weighs around 8 lbs. per gallon so a 5 gallon / 20 liter jug will weigh 40 pounds not exactly something you want to be trying to slip in under the sink on a regular basis. Or haul off to dump from the grey side. I would shoot for 2.5 Gal / 10 Liter size or someplace near that for both weight and as a practical matter you won't use inside water much.

Possible list of jugs https://relianceproducts.com/products/hydration.html
Water bricks are really designed for emergency supply storage. They have a whole line of stacking containers for food stuff, ammo and water. Not really for moving around as camping gear.

We have a heavy orange 6 gallon thermos jug, filled with ice and water good for several days of drinking water. Sits on picnic table or back of car or even board across trailer tongue. Find that adding ice every couple of days will replenish with good water. For long trips we back that up with up to two 6 gallon blue water cans like these that we can fill at the last minute https://relianceproducts.com/products/hydration/76.html

With the under sink arrangement I would consider this 3 gal inside for water https://relianceproducts.com/products/hydration/43.html with this 5 gal collapsible outside for waste water https://relianceproducts.com/products/hydration/83.html My thinking is while traveling the collapsed bag would take up little space while holding more than input tank. And the weight can be kept down around 24 lbs.

Might also want a small collapsible bucket for drain if using at a rest stop for a meal break or brief stop where bucket can get dumped right away before you leave.

[Lee Senn]

I would suggest you take a look at the water system utilized by "Ian G" on our forum in his Boler. Quite ingenious and using the water cooler facilitates cleaning due to the large top opening. Admittedly the round container is not as space efficient as square containers. You could use the square containers for additional storage to refill the cooler. I worked for my uncle as a welding apprentice and our water storage was one of these coolers and I can guarantee they will stand up to an incredible amount of abuse. Lee

[Timber Wolf]

Originally Posted by Kai in Seattle

milk jugs would do for a time or two...the plastic holds some of the milkfat and goes rancid in time,

I have heard that too, but we have not actually experienced it. I guess we did not know the jugs were supposed to have a problem when we started so we never had a problem. We use well rinsed 2% milk jugs and although I do rinse and re-fill before each trip I have left water from the last trip in them for weeks and did not notice any smell when I dumped it out. We have not been out more than a week so maybe an issue would arise in water stored for a longer period and then actually used.

[Ruralredhead]

I just found these food grade 5 gallon water jugs. It looks like they have interchangeable lids so one could have a solid cap during towing and a pour cap to drop a tube in while camped. Only $11 from the Lexington container company. I wish they came in a 3.5 gallon size like the waterbrick.



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[Ruralredhead]

RogerDat, thanks for tip on the weather containers. I like the big handle on the 3 gallon.


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[Kai in Seattle]

Originally Posted by Timber Wolf

I have heard that too, but we have not actually experienced it. I guess we did not know the jugs were supposed to have a problem when we started so we never had a problem. We use well rinsed 2% milk jugs and although I do rinse and re-fill before each trip I have left water from the last trip in them for weeks and did not notice any smell when I dumped it out. We have not been out more than a week so maybe an issue would arise in water stored for a longer period and then actually used.

It's probably the longer storage that's the issue, as that information was from FEMA in an emergency-preparedness class we took. For emergency water supplies, the kind you store for six or twelve months in a secure, out-of-the-way place. Probably you're keeping the water plenty fresh...but might find it's not fresh after months and months. I like milk cartons, myself, they're free, a good size, kind of square, and pretty sturdy. Your experience encourages me to go ahead and clean some up to use camping--making sure to refresh and renew the water every few weeks as you've done. Also, they say if you "shake" the container well after it's been sitting a while, the water will oxygenate and taste better. YMMV.

[RogerDat]

Lye turns milk fats into soap. A dilute solution of lye and water is what they use to clean milking machines. Or did back in the day when I pitched silage for a dairy farm.


Lye turns the milk fat into soap which then rinses out easily.


Cat litter jugs are square, we use them in our freezer to take up extra space and pack them in cooler for camping. Avoids ice melting all over the place. Don't think we drink them as a rule but probably could. Cat litter is just clay (at least the stuff we bought back when we had cats) Not sure how tight the seal is either they are generally upright. But might be worth taking a look at.


Pure chlorine bleach (no fragrance and non-detergent) can purify water at a few drops per gallon will help the shelf life I have been told. For purification using bleach or water storage suggestions see Water Purification :: Washington State Dept. of Health


2 liter bottles actually make sense, not as convenient in terms of shape but I use one for dog water often. Seals well, no plastic taste (dog shares water with me but not her bowl).