common point of failure - Fiberglass RV
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Old 09-24-2022, 01:57 PM   #1
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Name: Chuck
Trailer: Scamp 16 Deluxe
Washington
Posts: 151
common point of failure

I'm appealing to the collective wisdom of the group for a recommendation for an epoxy cement or another method to join the grey water waste tank to the drain fittings.

I've reviewed a bunch of posts about how to repair the joint between the grey water waste tank and the drain plumbing, particularly at the point the ABS pipe enters the tank. The number of posts tells me it's a common problem, and not necessarily just for Scamps.

As I find it, the ABS pipe enters the (polyethylene?) tank with what I'm guessing is just a slip fitting thru a bit of a flange, which has some sort of hardened (epoxy?) goop/cement around it, which was then backed up with clear silicone caulk. There is absolutely no room to get to the full 360 degrees around the joint, which would imply needing to drop the tank off, make the repair and reinstall it, WITHOUT FLEXING THE JOINT. I'll bet that's why there was a bead of silicone around it, just in case the joint breaks while being installed, or after the inevitable flexing that happens as that pipe strapping screwed into the OSB underside of the trailer loosens or flexes.

So, is there a consensus about the best means to join the fittings to the tank and getting it reinstalled without having it break again?
Thanks everybody,

Chuck
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Old 09-24-2022, 08:48 PM   #2
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Name: Charlie Y
Trailer: Escape 21 - Felicity
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I don't know Scamps, but I work with a lot of plastic and DO know poly. Nothing will stick to poly. If you have room and time, I would take the poly tank to a plastics fabricator and have a threaded fitting welded onto the tank. From there you screw on whatever you need to make that functional. Plastic welding is the only way poly will stay connected to anything.
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Old 09-25-2022, 06:22 PM   #3
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Name: Chuck
Trailer: Scamp 16 Deluxe
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How's this for a plan?

After some more crawling around under the trailer, I found a sticker on the tank that tells me it's an HT710-ED tank, made by ICON. I verified that by looking at the parts on the Scamp website. I have a message into ICON to verify that ABS fittings can be glued to the ABS tank. So I may have mispoken about the tank being made of polyethylene.

If so, I'll take the tank out, glue in an ABS 3" spigot, and remount it. Then I'll reattach the dump valve assembly with a Fernco hubless 3x3 coupling, which is made of rubber, and ought to be able to absorb any stress, shock, or misalignment caused by me while remounting it or by routinely attaching the drain hose.

While I'm at it, I may remove the small connector from the sink and shower drain line, plug it, and move it nearer the top of the tank. It seems sort of silly to have the fill opening only half way up the tank.

Failing that, the best bet will be the plastic welding that tractors1 suggested.

Chuck
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Old 09-25-2022, 07:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beardrum View Post
How's this for a plan?


Failing that, the best bet will be the plastic welding that tractors1 suggested.

Chuck
DO NOT use glue on ABS, nor plastic welding. ABS can be solvent welded with either MEK or Acetone from any big box store to produce a 100% plastic joint that won't split along a glue line. MEK evaporates a little slower so has more working time but either will work much better than a glue. Both are in the stuff to assemble household plumbing (PVC pipe)
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Old 09-26-2022, 07:54 AM   #5
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Name: Chuck
Trailer: Scamp 16 Deluxe
Washington
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I heard back from Icon (rather promptly, I must say) that the tank is made of ABS plastic. Yes, I intend to use Oatey's Black ABS Cement, which is indeed an MEK/acetone solvent-based cement.

Now it's a question of remove, repair, and reinstall. I'll use the rubber coupling I described to isolate the fragile connection, and I'll use the various blocks and brackets under there to hold things still.

So now:
Does anybody have a good technique for pulling pipe strapping tight while the ends are fastened down?

Thanks for helping me think through this.

Chuck
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Old 10-01-2022, 11:22 AM   #6
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Name: David
Trailer: Scamp 16
California
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ICON patch

Hello,
I used 'ICON 01518 Holding Tank Adhesive, Black', purchased on Amazon and followed the video provided by ICON at the following link.

https://www.icondirect.com/holding-t...ve-1-lb-black/

I added a fair amount of shredded fiberglass (pulled apart) (purchased at HD) and added that to the mix to created a stronger fiber threaded mixture.
I packed this around the pipe and tank where they were joined.

WEAR GLOVES and have a few extra pairs available to swap out while doing this job. Sticky stuff.

I did not need to drop the tank. I just pushed the adhesive up and around the pipe and tank joining to get 360 coverage.

Be generous in your coverage and thickness. Working time is fairly short (20 to 30 minutes), so get prepared, do the job and then let it cure for 24 to 48 hours.

This worked well for me. No leaks.

Gook luck
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Old 10-01-2022, 07:18 PM   #7
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On my Scamp 16, the gray water outlet comes off without removing the tank. When I took the tank off to repair something I re-installed the tank then re-installed the drain outlet, using good ol' silicone to seal it up. It does not leak, and is weak enough that the fitting will come apart if needed in the future.



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Old 10-02-2022, 10:34 AM   #8
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Well, I'm glad I decided to go ahead and drop the tank before attempting any kind of repair. I was concerned about being able to reach all the way around the outlet spigot with whatever goopy-puck while the fittings were crammed up against the underside of the floor. I discovered that the leak came from not just a failed joint, but from a crack extending an inch or so into the body of the tank. I had looked at Icon's ABS shavings and the instructional video about mixing the shavings with acetone to make a paste. Adding fiberglass shreds seems like a good idea too.

But I went ahead and ordered a new tank, partly to be SURE to have the leak issue solved, and partly to add a rubber coupling between the drain fittings and the tank, so as to eliminate any damage caused by my meat-handed connecting and removing of the drain hose.

I'll reinstall the tank, along with new fittings for the sink drain, the vent, and the shower drain, and with the rubber coupling installed on the drain spigot of the tank. Then I'll assemble the dump valve fittings, and mount them, leaving the connection to the rubber coupling for last. That should eliminate or minimize any torque I put on the ABS joints while mounting them. As I assemble the gate valve, I'll put a little vaseline on the gate proper, so as to make it slide as easily as possible. I'll use fresh galvanized pipe strapping to mount things with.

Maybe all that will make the tank installation "better than new," assuming no screw-ups. Wish me luck.

Chuck
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Old 10-03-2022, 04:44 PM   #9
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Name: Darrell
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Well Chuck
No help on it from me but best of luck on it. I'm dreading a job to do on mine some time.... replacement dump valve on black tank. Then a few replacement/ repairs otherwise too. Tankless water heater, fix Suburban heater need to get on that one now. That fall chill is in the air.
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Old 10-03-2022, 05:52 PM   #10
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Thanks.
The dump valve shouldn't be too bad if you rinse the tank out well. Just 4 bolts and you're done.

Chuck
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Old 10-10-2022, 09:52 AM   #11
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Name: Darrell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beardrum View Post
Thanks.
The dump valve shouldn't be too bad if you rinse the tank out well. Just 4 bolts and you're done.

Chuck
True but I've been full-timing for over a decade in mine. 😉 so knowing my luck a #2 would hit mid job. 😒
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Old 10-19-2022, 09:05 AM   #12
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Name: Michelle
Trailer: Casita
Washington
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I've replaced both gray and black water tank valves on my 2011 Casita.



Twice. The first time I took some bad advice and replaced only the silicon O ring that surrounds the shield in the middle of the T handle valve. (don't know the name of it, but it's the round bit of plastic in the middle of the valve, it holds the effluent back). I was told it's an 'easy job' but it was anything but.


Having spent 21 years as a mechanic in the Army, I learned cuss words in five different languages and used them all, but in this case they didn't work.



When I re installed the black tank valve, the O ring folded up and the first pull of the T handle resulted in leakage. I'd filled the black tank with fresh clean water, of course, and it leaked almost as if there was no shield at all.



So the second time, I just replaced the entire T valve assembly. That was much easier, although getting the screws tightened to prevent leakage gave me some problems, but it works. You can get the entire valve at any good RV shop, online, or Camping world.
ON a related note, we replaced the original gray water valve on our 2011 Casita with Little House Customs 'fast drain'' gray valve. WHY Casita insisted on using two different sizes of T valve, I have no idea. Nor do I understand why Casita's original gray water drain pipe was installed horizontally, rather than angled downwards.

LHC's fast drain uses the same size T valve as the black, and the piping is angled downwards to enable, as it claims, fast draining.



If your black tank is clean, changing the valve isn't that bad a task at all.
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Old 10-19-2022, 02:53 PM   #13
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Name: RogerDat
Trailer: 2010 Scamp 16
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Tip someone passed on to me for working with fiberglass that might apply for ABS putty repairs. Put on two or three pairs of the nitril gloves, as one gets all gunked up just peel it off and you have a fresh glove underneath.

Hard and time consuming to take off soiled gloves and put on new gloves without getting stuff on your hands. Peeling the soiled one off does make fresh gloves easier and faster.

The black brush on dope for ABS pipes in plumbing section does work for repairs. Can even use it to stick some fiberglass screen (typical non-metal window screen) over a crack or hole, then layer coats of the ABS pipe dope over the screen to effect a repair. I had a strap break and damage the bottom back edge of tank and was able to repair it using this approach.

I count it lucky that it wasn't the front strap that let go, dragging the tank when the back end dropped was bad, ramming it back if the front had hit the road would have been a disaster.
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