Do not overfill Bigfoot freshwater

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by Rzrbrn

Charles, I never really thought to label things in or on the trailer, think I will attempt the same. I have a label machine but not sure it will do labels that won't wash off or fade in the sunlight.

There are some really stable and stickly labels for the p-touch tz system.

[CharlesinGA]

This is the whole story of the Brother Tz labels and a couple of other compatible versions Brother makes. Pages 18 and 19 list every available tape, by background, text color and adhesive type, environmental conditions, etc.

https://www.brother.is/-/media/produ...update_web.pdf

A little simpler, here is the list of tapes and part numbers, as above, much easier to figure out.

https://www.ptouchdirect.com/ptouch/...ape-guide.html

I have one older USB label maker and a newer one, they both take up to one inch wide I think. The third one is a portable with a keyboard, so its text only. The USB ones, using the computer software, you can include images and clipart. I have two switches in the shop, one is the master switch for the three ceiling fans, and one is the power for the shop heater. I included a clip art of a ceiling fan, looks just like the ones I have, and for the heater I finally used a fire breathing dragon image.

Every switch and receptacle in my shop and house has a label to indicate what circuit breaker controls it. No guessing later on.

Here is an example of the Progressive Power managment remote indicator and the label I made for the error codes. Black on clear on the wall paper, can be read but not annoying to look at.

Also one for the step control switch, I was always confused by the steps and once I figured it out, I labeled it.

Charles

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by CharlesinGA

This is the whole story of the Brother Tz labels and a couple of other compatible versions Brother makes. Pages 18 and 19 list every available tape, by background, text color and adhesive type, environmental conditions, etc.

https://www.brother.is/-/media/produ...update_web.pdf

A little simpler, here is the list of tapes and part numbers, as above, much easier to figure out.

https://www.ptouchdirect.com/ptouch/...ape-guide.html

I have one older USB label maker and a newer one, they both take up to one inch wide I think. The third one is a portable with a keyboard, so its text only. The USB ones, using the computer software, you can include images and clipart. I have two switches in the shop, one is the master switch for the three ceiling fans, and one is the power for the shop heater. I included a clip art of a ceiling fan, looks just like the ones I have, and for the heater I finally used a fire breathing dragon image.

Every switch and receptacle in my shop and house has a label to indicate what circuit breaker controls it. No guessing later on.

Here is an example of the Progressive Power managment remote indicator and the label I made for the error codes. Black on clear on the wall paper, can be read but not annoying to look at.

Also one for the step control switch, I was always confused by the steps and once I figured it out, I labeled it.

Charles

Don't forget that there are some companies who make their own versions that work with these labelers. Some of them have some unique properties.

[Rzrbrn]

You have inspire me. I have a Brother PT-D200. I really do need to start making labels for things in the trailer and around the house. Very good project for the next couple of cold months.

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by Rzrbrn

You have inspire me. I have a Brother PT-D200. I really do need to start making labels for things in the trailer and around the house. Very good project for the next couple of cold months.

Just remember that the labels which specify they have an adhesive which will not come off, won't.

[Defenestrator]

Progress! I got the fill fitting off. Bigfoot apparently puts the tanks in place early on, so they weren't much progress even when I finally got ahold of them. They also usually use a fitting with a rounded center instead of hex. Had quite a time getting the right size, since I couldn't get in there to measure.

First attempt was a plumber's wrench, cut down around the outside so it'd fit in the space. 1-3/4". It fit, but it was just a bit too big to really get a good grip on it. Especially since it really had only 2 edges to grab. I might have managed it if I'd really forced it, but I didn't want to mangle it if I didn't have to and rounded plastic bolts are pretty unforgiving. Especially with really narrow wrenches.

Second attempt, well, I figured it was about 1/8" off so I'd try a 1-5/8" socket. Had to order a ridiculously overbuilt one, since little sheet-metal sockets don't seem to come in that size. No dice - that wasn't big enough to fit.

Attempt number 3 was a bit bigger, 1-11/16". Turns out that was also a bit small, but since it's large and plastic and needed very little torque, that ended up being close enough.

Once I got the thing out, I was able to get a better idea of the problem. I suspect it's supposed to be 1-3/4" nominally, but in reality it's more like 1-45/64". Probably close enough for a socket, but not for a wrench.

Next up, hopefully Friday, I'll pull the actual tank and inspect it. Grant said it should be possible to get it out despite the spin-welded fittings sticking out.

Still going back and forth with BF's parts department to get the support bar (they call it a zed-bar) ordered. I figure I should probably replace it rather than try to unmangle the one I have.

[Defenestrator]

Right nominal size, but just enough excess clearance and rounded corners to make it slip if the angle is short of perfect.

[Defenestrator]

Tank is out! Less damage from the initial event than I expected, which is good. Might not have had to remove it entirely after all, though I still needed to get in there to replace the bent support bar.

Unfortunately, getting the tank out did involve mangling the fill inlet. I'm going to have to have a local shop spin-weld a new fitting on.

[Defenestrator]

After a lot of calling around, I found a local shop that can spin-weld a new fitting on. Took it in, and.. turns out, he didn't know what spin-welding was after all. But he thought the overnight guy might. He did have a decent amount of experience welding and reshaping plastic in general though, and managed to unmangle the fitting enough that it'll probably be workable. Threads aren't perfect, but they should seal OK. Especially with teflon tape.

I also patched up the one spot that was gouged a bit more deeply. The rest are all really superficial, no need to patch. Probably didn't even need to patch the one I did, but I figured I might as well shore it up while I've got the tank out.

Now I just need Bigfoot to get back with me about the replacement "Z-bar". It's been a few weeks of slow back-and-forth, probably because of covid+holidays. Might try to find a local metal shop that'll fab one up since it's just rectangular sheet metal with a few 90-degree bends.

[JimKE]

Interesting thread. THANK YOU! My black tank partially fell out during a rinse and clean while in my driveway. I had filled the tank with a swivel stick rinser for flushing it clean, but some how it caused the tank to fall away from and out from the z bracket.
I took to an RV dealer who re-seated the tank and added additional supports. Then, I took to a welder who added iron straps that were bolted to the frame diagonally across the underbelly. This was an added protection to keep the tank from dropping down, or worse yet, falling to the ground while traveling. I have learned since not to travel with any of the thanks filled, even partially, unless going a short distance. If I remember correctly, the Z bar ledge where the tank sits on is maybe around 3""? In any case, if the tank flexes at all, due to the added weight, it would bow in the center causing the tank edges to recede away from the z-bar ledge. Too far and the tank drops. I have read a few horror stories about rv owners traveling with full, or semi-full tanks, and the tank had dropped to the road surface. By adding the iron straps, I was, hopefully, able to avoid this happening to me, since it already happened once while sitting in my driveway. My unit was a 200825RQ. So, the repairman made some repairs to assist in ensuring that the tanks stayed in place, and then the welder installed some added protection. BTW, the rv repair center stated that this is happens occasionally to all makes and models of units. If you look at the design, at least on a 2008, there is minimal support of the tanks. And if they bow with the added fluid weight, well, that can make it even more potentially a problem, not to say dangerous. At least, that was the case with me. There are some YouTube videos of owners that have made the added precautions, if that helps? Thanks again for all of your detail.

[Defenestrator]

I wonder if they've changed the tank design since 2008. I definitely don't see how it could flex enough to come loose from the brackets, unless something like overfilling also flexes the support bar like in my case. The "ledge" part of the tank is fairly stiff, and should be plenty long. Did your z-bar bend as well, or just the tank? Might be worth gusseting on the z-bar if it bent, though strengthening it too much increases the odds that a tank overfill will bend the welded beam instead of the bolted z-bar.

After considerable delay, I'm back to work. Bigfoot finally got back to me about the replacement Z-bar and once the order was placed shipping was super fast. Unfortunately it arrived unpainted, so there's already a little surface rust. Figured I'd try an auto-body shop but they wanted $271 even without it needing to be pretty. Plan B is to order a POR-15 kit and use that on it. More work than a quick spraypaint, but hopefully more durable and less messy. I've learned the hard way that spraypaint also leaves a light coating on basically anything within a 10' radius.

[John in Santa Cruz]

I'd use a angle grinder with a flap disk to remove any surface rust, then some basic rattlecan zinc primer and pick your color of rattle can enamel top coat. por15 isn't really that special.

[Defenestrator]

Hmm. I thought about rattle-can, but in my experience it coats everything within about a 10' radius with a fine mist of paint and I'd rather not deal with giving my garage the full Dexter treatment. POR-15 comes in a kit with the clean and prep chemicals and brushes, so unless it's worse than rattle-can it's probably the easier option.

[John in Santa Cruz]

ah, I generally use rattlecan paint outside, mindful of the direction of the breeze...

[JimKE]

There is an awesome trailer made for off road camping called the Black Series. If you look at the YouTube video, link below, and go to 38:26, there is a good shot of how this company attaches their tanks. Having had the problem of my tank dropping out, which is not overly common but more common than one thinks, it makes sense to add protection from the weight. Mine dropped in my driveway during a cleaning process as I was filling and flushing. I was careful not to fill too fast, but it still happened.

Many companies advise you NOT TO TRAVEL WITH FULL TANK(S). I can see why now! When you are boon-docking, you don't have much choice sometimes. You just keep your fingers crossed! Take care, stay safe and enjoy winter camping if doing so!



Here is the link (go to 38:26):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yIu0LvLvpA

[Defenestrator]

After another bit of a stall, progress continues! POR15 done. It's not the prettiest because I wasn't very careful about globbing/texture etc, but it's coated. Freshwater tank is back in and re-plumbed.

The fill tube's been giving me trouble. First attempt leaked a little just from water flowing in. Bigfoot put a bit of silicone inside the tube where it clamps on, so I tried some aquarium sealant (potable-water safe). It reduced the leak to a tiny slow drip and only when overfilled, which might be the best I can do. I think the spiral crease on the "smooth" inside of the tube is just almost impossible to fully seal. Tempted to just replace it with reinforced vinyl tubing that'll seal properly when clamped, but I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.

Around the same time, the black tank valve decided to give up the ghost and leak all the liquid out, which also clogged it entirely. Got the old one out, but ended up calling for reinforcements (mobile RV tech) after I couldn't get the new seals in without risking damaging something. Turns out there's a super easy way to do it that I missed: just disconnect the graywater valve as well, and that whole section of pipe is loose. A hint if you're planning on replacing the black valve in a 25RQ though: Clean/rinse the tank until the dump water is totally clear, then at least two more times for good measure. Then lift the door/passenger/curb side up to get the last of the liquid out. I thought I'd gotten it totally clean and empty, and I was wrong.

After doing various leak tests on the tanks and reconnected plumbing, I think my tank heater pad plan may be a bust. The bottom of the tanks flex and expands way more than I expected when full, and they press fairly firmly against the underbody panels. Not sure I want to squish a heating pad into there. The extra insulation I was planning on adding should still be fine, though. XLPE foam is pretty elastic and durable.

Next phase will be removing the final underbody panel to add insulation to it (and, uh, cleaning it off) then putting the new tank sensors in place. Unfortunately it's almost impossible to run new wires all the way without more cabinet disassembly than I'd like, but I can just use the existing sensor wires bonded together.

[Defenestrator]

Also, trying to figure out my sealant strategy for the bottom. The existing stuff seemed to be some sort of clear silicone/caulk around the edges then I think Heng's Alkyd/Plas-T-Cote between the panels. Grant said just use whatever silicone sealant. I'm leaning towards just using 3M 4200 all around.

I did figure out a pretty good strategy for getting the existing stuff off. Use a razor to remove what I can, then a 3M eraser wheel for the last bit.

[Defenestrator]

Just realized I never gave a final update to this.

Got everything reassembled. Ended up hurting my neck and hiring a handyman to help with the bottom reassembly and re-seal. I did end up skipping the 12V heater pads for lack of clearance.

I did end up going through the hassle of running dedicated larger-diameter wires for the SeeLevel instead of bonding together the old ones. Also made a wiring harness so I could use the existing setup's connector instead of cutting it off, so it'd be easy to go back to stock if needed. Running the through the cabinets was definitely a huge pain. I ended up finding a couple things I wasn't a huge fan of. A bare screw with a 120V wire right next to it, where a small mistake could easily have run the screw through the wire, and a sloppy crimp in the 12V line going to the stove vent+light. I swear I had a photo of the bad crimp, but I can't seem to find it. It was replaced with an inline marine-style heatshrink crimp.

Getting the closet/pantry panels out was relatively straightforward, but getting the bottom shelf panel out of the cabinet next to the microwave was a huge pain that required a lot of prying and prodding at different angles with different tools.

Getting the fill pipe to seal was a huge pain. There's a crease on the inside of it that just doesn't want to seal perfectly against the barb connector, even after I cleaned up the flashing. I ended up resorting to aquarium sealant, which I think they may also use at the factory as well.

The SeeLevel control panel was a bit smaller than the stock one, so I cut a small sheet of black ABS into a trim panel.

I've only taken it on two trips since, but everything worked smoothly. The extra insulation underneath made a small but noticeable difference, and knowing the tank level within 5% makes it a lot easier to predict how many days you have left.

[Rzrbrn]

Thank you for the update Elliot. Very nicely done.