How I replaced my city water inlet and added a shutoff valve - Fiberglass RV
Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-03-2018, 10:12 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 4,672
How I replaced my city water inlet and added a shutoff valve

About two years after buying my camper the city water inlet started to leak when using on-board water. The problem of course was a failed check valve in the city water connection which is a common failure. Replacement of the inlet and valve assembly is not difficult, but it is enough of a pain that I did not want to do it every couple of years. Also, a failed check valve in the city water connection makes it impractical to use the on board water system (unless you cap it off perhaps). Therefore I decided to not only replace the city water inlet, but also add a valve so that if the check valve failed again I could just turn the valve and continue to use the on-board water system, which is what I usually do anyway.

Since I was going to do more than just replace the city water inlet, some pre-planning was called for. It was important to make sure there was enough length of the PEX pipe to add a valve and also see if there was enough working room or would I need to remove the bench or anything else in the way to do the job.

There are a number of methods for making connections with PEX pipe and fixtures. Eveland’s Inc (Scamp) uses the Uponor ProPEX system which requires an expensive specialized tool that expands the pipe and compression rings to fit on compatible ProPEX fittings, none of which are commonly available at your local stores. Copper crimp rings are no doubt the most common method used with PEX fittings and since I had the required crimper and had used this method on my Scamp before, it was what I used for this project. It was tight but the crimper did fit in the work area. A few other methods for working with PEX connections are clamps, sleeves and push-on fittings such as the SharkBite line. Personally, I would never use a push-on. The tool required for clamps might fit in tight spaces better than most crimpers.

One other consideration was the length of pipe from the bottom ProPex expansion ring connection that goes to the main cold water line. The manufacturer requires two inches between fittings due to the expansion of the pipe when it is connected to fittings. I don’t know if this applies to a section of pipe with an expansion ring on one side and a copper crimp on the other, so I just left as close to two inches on the lower side of the valve as I could. I also noted that Eveland’s Inc does violate this minimum distance in their plumbing around the water pump, and so far it has been fine. I suspect if it was going to be a problem it would show up right away (but YMMV).


So with my decision to use copper crimp rings and a PEX inline ball valve, it was time to consider the connection to the city water inlet. The plumbing side of the original inlet was male ½ inch pipe thread and also used a 90 degree elbow connected to a ½ inch pipe thread female swivel adapter. I had read of problems with the screw-on swivel adapters so I went a different route. I choose a city water inlet with female pipe thread (FPT) and a 90 degree elbow with pipe threads to connect to the PEX ( both are “lead free” of course). I feel that this will be more reliable than using the swivel adapter. It does mean that replacing the city water inlet in the future will be more difficult but since I will have an inline valve there will be no need to replace it if the check valve in the city water inlet is the only problem. Still, others might prefer to retain the screw-on swivel adapter and that is likely a fine choice.

Lastly I considered the order of assembly to be sure everything would go together properly.

BTW, You can go to the photo album to see the photos in a larger and clearer format.

Now on to the actual work...
---

Removal of the defective inlet requires unscrewing the pipe connection (swivel adapter) inside the camper, drilling out the three rivets holding the inlet to the body, and cutting through the sealant.

Unscrew the black swivel adapter.



Drill off the rivet heads. Going slow with the right size drill bit will do it cleanly.





Cut the sealant.



~ ~ ~ Continued in next message ~ ~ ~
gordon2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 10:13 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 4,672
With the top of the rivets drilled off, one can free the flange on the city inlet




and remove it after it is disconnected from the plumbing by unscrewing the connection inside the camper.



Next I removed the remainder of the rivets from the body. This can be a bit of a challenge, I had good luck using wire cutters to cut the rivets flush, then pushing them in, or better yet, pulling (and twisting) from inside using needle nose pliers or in this case using the pliers on my wire cutters since that is what I had in reach at the time.





Next, I cleaned up the remaining sealant and used a little bondo body filler to seal up the rivet holes and provide a good mounting area for the new inlet. This step is probably optional since the butyl tape should seal up the holes, but it does not hurt to use some polyester resin here. Its only used where it will be hidden so it does not need to be pretty.




~ ~ ~ Continued in next message ~ ~ ~
gordon2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 10:13 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 4,672
Next I cut the pipe stub on the city water inlet to the right length and dry fit it to make sure everything fits, then crimped the two rings. In this photo the plumbing is done but the city water inlet is not yet secured to the body.



As previously mentioned, by not using a swivel adapter the city water inlet will be more difficult to replace in the future. This photo shows how far it can be pulled away from the body while the piping and valve are connected. Using two people, it might be possible to get a wrench on the elbow inside the camper and another on the city water side to unscrew it and replace it. Then again, it might not be possible in which case the replacement gets much more involved.




Butyl tape was applied under the city water inlet flange and 8-32 (3/4 inch) stainless steel bolts with nylock nuts and washers on the inside were used to secure it to the body. The bolts were made snug but not tight, and every few hours I went back to re-tighten a little as the butyl settled. At first I was concerned that I did not use enough butyl but after some time the butyl compressed and made a perfect seal.



Clean up the excess butyl and its done. IMHO there is no need to run sealant wound the edges of the flange.

21


--------------------------------------------
Please note that this series of posts is not intended to be a guide or instruction of any kind. I have no formal plumbing training or certification and present this information for discussion only. While I do believe that non-professionals can handle repairs or projects like this as they make sufficient effort to do it properly, you assume all responsibility if you do so.
gordon2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 10:29 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 4,672
PS, this is the original elbow and swivel adapter after it was cut off of the PEX pipe.
Attached Thumbnails
CityWaterWithValve_original adapter.jpg  
gordon2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 10:53 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
mszabo's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Trailer: 1986 Bigfoot FT20
Michigan
Posts: 935
A inline check valve works well also.

https://smile.amazon.com/SHURflo-340...ne+check+valve
mszabo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 11:13 AM   #6
Raz
Senior Member
 
Raz's Avatar
 
Name: Raz
Trailer: Trillium 2010
Vermont
Posts: 4,922
Good write up. Gotta wonder why the check valve fails? Especially on a newer trailer. I have no experience with PEX. Looks easy.
Raz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 11:18 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 4,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by mszabo View Post
A inline check valve works well also.

https://smile.amazon.com/SHURflo-340...ne+check+valve
Maybe it does.. but the reviews are not good.
gordon2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 11:41 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 4,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz View Post
... Gotta wonder why the check valve fails? Especially on a newer trailer. I have no experience with PEX. Looks easy.
Oh I don't know.. hard water? Freeze damage? Just bad luck? At any rate, the ball valve will likely last for the rest of my lifetime.

As for PEX, I do think its usable by most DIYers.. like anything else, there is a lot to know if you want to be sure its done right, and even more if you are doing a project that requires code inspection. But for general repairs around the house its easy enough. There is lots of information from the manufactures online.

BTW, this is what is left of the plumbing to my now-gone water heater.
Attached Thumbnails
Final plugs.jpg  
gordon2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 11:53 AM   #9
Raz
Senior Member
 
Raz's Avatar
 
Name: Raz
Trailer: Trillium 2010
Vermont
Posts: 4,922
Planning on cold showers?
Raz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 11:57 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
mszabo's Avatar
 
Name: Mike
Trailer: 1986 Bigfoot FT20
Michigan
Posts: 935
Why would you remove a water heater out of a newer camper?
mszabo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2018, 12:31 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 4,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by mszabo View Post
Why would you remove a water heater out of a newer camper?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz View Post
Planning on cold showers?
Those questions are off topic so I will tell you all about it in PM.
gordon2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2018, 10:34 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Name: Tom
Trailer: Sprinter 'til I buy
Denver, CO
Posts: 944
Good write up Gordon. Although I didn't pose the question, I too am curious about the water heater removal. I bet I'm not the only other reader. Feel free to answer, it was off-topic, but now is part of the topic.
Tom 72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2018, 11:10 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Name: Floyd
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
IllAnnoy
Posts: 7,878
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz View Post
Good write up. Gotta wonder why the check valve fails? Especially on a newer trailer. I have no experience with PEX. Looks easy.
If you took one apart you would not wonder. The stock shore water inlet is a $5 retail ltem with a little rubber check valve not much more than a round piece of innertube which is attached at the center and allowed to "flap" open from the outside only.
When mine failed I replaced it with one which had a pressure regulator built in. ( it just happened to be in my hoardware store.)
floyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2018, 07:33 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 4,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 72 View Post
...I too am curious about the water heater removal. I bet I'm not the only other reader. Feel free to answer, it was off-topic, but now is part of the topic.
I have talked about this a little in other threads but I'll be happy to sum it up here...

I bought the camper in Sept 2015 and fired up the water heater to make sure it worked. Then I did not use it all for some time. I found a tea kettle was easier, faster and used less propane, while still satisfying my need for hot water for doing dishes or washing my face. I have the side bath and the shower is very small and not real practical. For one thing the wall of the shower wants to separate from the body, so its not going to be water tight. I always find somewhere better to shower anyway so I have not used the shower (although I do like having the “wet room.”). I might use the shower on very hot days at the beach, where cold water would be fine. But there I could likely rinse off outdoors.

Then, last year the cold water supply shut off valve started to leak (possible freeze damage). So I cut the cold supply line to the water heater and capped it off so I could continue to use the water system. I thought about replacing the valve and even bought a Uponor ProPEX valve and compression rings, and tried to buy the special tool. Long story but I never got the tool. I could have used copper crimp rings but this went on for a year or more and I found I was happy without the water heater so I didn't bother to replace the valve and reconnect the water supply.

Also, the water heater takes a fair amount of maintenance.. insects get in it, the water needs to be flushed every so often, etc. And the fresh water tank is small so thats a limiting factor sometimes.

So I thought about it from the time the camper was new until last week. I was confident that I would be happier with the added storage instead of the never used water heater, so out it came. Look like I have a local buyer for it for $145… a good deal for him!

Now this works for me but other people would never give up the option for a hot water shower in their camper. A true case of YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd View Post
If you took one apart you would not wonder. The stock shore water inlet is a $5 retail ltem with a little rubber check valve not much more than a round piece of innertube which is attached at the center and allowed to "flap" open from the outside only.
When mine failed I replaced it with one which had a pressure regulator built in. ( it just happened to be in my hoardware store.)
I believe it is a disk and o-ring held closed with a spring until the city water pressure overcomes the spring (with no or lesser pressure from the internal pump). When using on-board water, if the pump is off and pressure is low enough, or if the pressure is on and one is strong enough, one can push in the center of the check valve (from the outside, and after removing the screen filter). This is something that probably should be done as part of winterization to get antifreeze into the valve and/or insure the water is drained out of it.

BTW, The Scamp Parts store says that it "built in spring loaded pressure regulator" but its not a pressure regulator, just an on or off check valve.

While usually high water pressure is the concern at campgrounds, I have been to some where the pressure was too low to get past a pressure regulator. So IMHO an adjustable one, or one that can be removed is preferable to one that is built-in, in a permanent way.
gordon2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2018, 04:41 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
floyd's Avatar
 
Name: Floyd
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
IllAnnoy
Posts: 7,878
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon2 View Post
I have talked about this a little in other threads but I'll be happy to sum it up here...

I bought the camper in Sept 2015 and fired up the water heater to make sure it worked. Then I did not use it all for some time. I found a tea kettle was easier, faster and used less propane, while still satisfying my need for hot water for doing dishes or washing my face. I have the side bath and the shower is very small and not real practical. For one thing the wall of the shower wants to separate from the body, so its not going to be water tight. I always find somewhere better to shower anyway so I have not used the shower (although I do like having the “wet room.”). I might use the shower on very hot days at the beach, where cold water would be fine. But there I could likely rinse off outdoors.

Then, last year the cold water supply shut off valve started to leak (possible freeze damage). So I cut the cold supply line to the water heater and capped it off so I could continue to use the water system. I thought about replacing the valve and even bought a Uponor ProPEX valve and compression rings, and tried to buy the special tool. Long story but I never got the tool. I could have used copper crimp rings but this went on for a year or more and I found I was happy without the water heater so I didn't bother to replace the valve and reconnect the water supply.

Also, the water heater takes a fair amount of maintenance.. insects get in it, the water needs to be flushed every so often, etc. And the fresh water tank is small so thats a limiting factor sometimes.

So I thought about it from the time the camper was new until last week. I was confident that I would be happier with the added storage instead of the never used water heater, so out it came. Look like I have a local buyer for it for $145… a good deal for him!

Now this works for me but other people would never give up the option for a hot water shower in their camper. A true case of YMMV.



I believe it is a disk and o-ring held closed with a spring until the city water pressure overcomes the spring (with no or lesser pressure from the internal pump). When using on-board water, if the pump is off and pressure is low enough, or if the pressure is on and one is strong enough, one can push in the center of the check valve (from the outside, and after removing the screen filter). This is something that probably should be done as part of winterization to get antifreeze into the valve and/or insure the water is drained out of it.

BTW, The Scamp Parts store says that it "built in spring loaded pressure regulator" but its not a pressure regulator, just an on or off check valve.

While usually high water pressure is the concern at campgrounds, I have been to some where the pressure was too low to get past a pressure regulator. So IMHO an adjustable one, or one that can be removed is preferable to one that is built-in, in a permanent way.
Good description of a back flow preventer without a pressure regulator as shown below...
This is the one provided with my Scamp


A pressure regulator on the other hand is designed to prevent over pressuring the trailer, too low of pressure should not stop water flow. most are preset to allow up to about 45PSI maximum not minimum.
You might have had a defect or an obstruction.
While on the subject, don't bother with those blue plastic pressure regulators, they are not reliable. Get the brass... It only costs twice as much to go first class.
floyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trillium City Water Inlet Woes David Swinnard Plumbing | Systems and Fixtures 32 02-19-2018 05:11 AM
Scamp Water Inlet Replaced; Flushing? StephLeach Modifications, Alterations and Updates 16 05-27-2017 07:21 PM
City Water Inlet Leaking: 2012 Scamp 13 STD CampyTime Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 9 10-25-2016 06:52 PM
City Water Inlet - Gasket Needed? Brian G. Modifications, Alterations and Updates 2 10-23-2016 08:51 PM
Water Tank fill valve from City water line! Michael Pupeza Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 6 06-20-2008 04:10 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.