Scamp - 6 gallon black tank or toilet alternative

[kari13]

If you haven't gathered by now I LOVE to do my research when shopping for new things.

So Scamps currently have a 6 gallon blackwater tank (maybe some older models have a 9 gallon tank). I have no experience with RV systems but that seems quite small. A Scamp rep tells me that should last 2-3 people 3-5 days before needing to be emptied.

I don't know how much boon docking we plan to do, but I would love to have the option. Two ways in which we definitely plan to use our trailer are to 1) have a spot for overnight guests to stay at our home and 2) be able to stay at friend's places who have property. In both situations there would not be a typical RV park "dump site" nearby (if that makes sense). There is a free dump site at the wastewater treatment plant not far-ish from our home so we always have the option to dump there, assuming we can make it home without maxing out our tanks.

I am wondering if either a chemical or composting toilet with urine diverter would "last longer" than a 6 gallon blackwater tank and might be a better option for a bathroom/toilet should we go with a Scamp trailer, or just in general for our intended use. I come from a backpacking/wilderness tent camping background, have used large scale composting toilets as an outdoor educator, and have had animals and a kid so solid poop doesn't scare me that much, but something about sludgy poop water getting stuck in the crevices of a hose skeeves me out.

So given the options - chemical toilet, composting toilet with urine separator, or a small blackwater tank - what are the pros and cons?

I would like to consider:

• Environmental friendliness (I'd love to be as "low impact" as possible)
• Ease of use
• Odor control (and would we need additional vents if using a no water method)
• Maintenance/dumping safety and ease
• Routine cost to use (fees associated with dumping, bio bags, compost medium, etc)

We also live in New England where we are subject to freezing temps probably half the year if that is a factor at all. I assume an internal system (composting or chem toilet) give us more flexibility in colder temperatures as we'd have the option to "dry camp."


Also Joolca GottaGo and Trelino keep targeting me with ads on social media so any input on those toilets (or other options) would be helpful.

[Jon in AZ]

Older Scamps (before c. 2021) have an 8-gallon black tank. The fresh water tank is only 12 gallons on most Scamps, so that’ll also be a limiting factor for extended dry camping. A blue boy is a cheap way to extend your waste tanks, and jugs extend your fresh water. Both are internal, along with the connecting plumbing, so moderate freezing weather is not a problem for either as long as you have heat in the trailer. The black tank has its own separate external drain.

The cold weather limitation for Scamp is the exposed gray water tank, along with exterior drain lines and shower drain pump. You'll have to winterize the drains and wash/bathe from basins in sub-freezing weather. The 21-gallon grey tank itself can actually handle short overnight drops below freezing. The shower drain and pump are most vulnerable. If you’re out camping and get caught in an unexpected overnight freeze, you can run some RV antifreeze down the drains and through the pump to protect them for a short spell.

I’d personally start with the factory set-up and see how it goes for a season or two before you drop big bucks on a composting toilet (or more accurately a separating toilet, since few RVers actually compost the solids). You may also need to spend some money on solar and lithium batteries for off-grid camping, and that could be a higher priority. The factory 12V system is very basic.

[ShelbyM]

Search will direct you to several pages of threads about "composting" toilets here on FGRV.

[kari13]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Older Scamps (before c. 2021) have an 8-gallon black tank. The fresh water tank is only 12 gallons on most Scamps, so that’ll also be a limiting factor for extended dry camping. A blue boy is a cheap way to extend your waste tanks, and jugs extend your fresh water. Both are internal, along with the connecting plumbing, so moderately cold weather is not a problem for either as long as you have heat in the trailer. The black tank has its own separate external drain.

The cold weather limitation for Scamp is the exposed gray water tank, along with exterior drain lines and shower drain pump. You'll have to winterize the drains and wash/bathe from basins in sub-freezing weather. The 21-gallon grey tank itself can actually handle short overnight drops below freezing. The shower drain and pump are most vulnerable. If you’re out camping and get caught in an unexpected overnight freeze, you can run some RV antifreeze down the drains and through the pump to protect them for a short spell.

I’d personally start with the factory set-up and see how it goes for a season or two before you drop big bucks on a composting toilet (or more accurately a separating toilet, since few RVers actually compost the solids). You may also need to spend some money on solar and lithium batteries for off-grid use, and that could be a higher priority. The factory 12V system is very basic.

Thanks! Wonder why they made the black tank even smaller when people seemed to think 8 gallons wasn't enough. But good to know as we are considering older/used models.

We are in the northeast, so fresh water is fairly plentiful at any spot we'd set up camp (even if that means collecting from a stream or spring and treating or boiling drinking water ourselves). Similarly when having guests overnight or staying at friends its easy enough to get more drinking water from city water or well, but not as easy to figure out where to dump a full black tank. If the black tank lasts a 3-5 days that is probably fine, but we wouldn't want to be in a situation where we need to dump the black tank more than every 3 days or so.

When winter camping I was thinking more of the camper as a safe shelter for our most basic needs - a place to sleep, eat, and use the toilet (particularly if ground is frozen and you can't dig a cat hole to poop in). Not very concerned about showers or washing dishes the traditional way for a short winter camping stint. Again I doubt we would use it much in this way but I like to know our options and limitations.

It definitely makes sense to start with the basic setup and go from there - that could be said about a lot of features I'm sure. As first time buyers I'm sure there are a lot of features we won't know if we will want or use until we are actually trailer camping. We've been back and forth about needing a bathroom or not. My husband and I are generally leaning Scamp right now, and since the black tank is small so wasn't sure if the convenience of a traditional RV flush toilet made less sense in a Scamp vs a Casita or something with larger tanks. As we are looking at used options we don't want to rule out something that otherwise fits our needs because of a toilet if in fact we would actual prefer a cassette or composting toilet anyway.

[kari13]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

Search will direct you to several pages of threads about "composting" toilets here on FGRV.

Thank you. I've searched and read them all I think, but most of them are several years or more old (the more in depth threads are 10+ years old and refer to products no longer made). I wasn't sure if the tech changed in a significant way.

Also Scamp black tanks have gotten smaller (current models are just 6 gallons) since most of those threads were written. So specific to Scamp, I was curious if the a cassette or composting toilet might actually be more convenient than the standard flush toilet option if having to dump it so frequently. I feel like there is a difference in functionality when a black tank lasts a week or more vs having to dump it every 3 days.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by kari13

Thanks! Wonder why they made the black tank even smaller when people seemed to think 8 gallons wasn't enough. But good to know as we are considering older/used models.

...when having guests overnight or staying at friends its easy enough to get more drinking water from city water or well, but not as easy to figure out where to dump a full black tank. If the black tank lasts a 3-5 days that is probably fine, but we wouldn't want to be in a situation where we need to dump the black tank more than every 3 days or so.

When winter camping I was thinking more of the camper as a safe shelter for our most basic needs - a place to sleep, eat, and use the toilet (particularly if ground is frozen and you can't dig a cat hole to poop in). Not very concerned about showers or washing dishes the traditional way for a short winter camping stint. Again I doubt we would use it much in this way but I like to know our options and limitations.

...As we are looking at used options we don't want to rule out something that otherwise fits our needs because of a toilet if in fact we would actual prefer a cassette or composting toilet anyway.

Appearance, maybe, or a change in supplier or product availability. The old 8-gallon tank sits in full view on top of the shower pan. Though not exactly beautiful, it has the advantages of visibility to know when it’s full and accessibility for repairs. The new low-profile tank is hidden below a raised section of the shower pan. Looks nicer, but it's easier for small leaks to go undetected.

When “driveway mooching,” whether at home or elsewhere, you will likely use the trailer toilet only at night, which should easily stretch 3-5 days. You can dump in the property owner’s sewer clean-out, using a blue boy if it’s not accessible from the driveway. That’s exactly what my BIL’s family did when they visited in their RV recently.

Most Scamps with a bath enclosure will have a toilet and shower. A few have just the toilet or a large empty closet. That usually means they won’t have a hot water system or shower either. If that’s what you find, I agree a separating toilet or cassette toilet could be an acceptable alternative.

By "cassette" I assume you mean a porta-potty. True Euro-style cassette toilets are a different animal, permanently mounted with a waste cassette that slides out of a hatch on the exterior. Emptying a porta-potty is more "up-close and personal" than a black tank, and it is prohibited in some public bathrooms because of the messes people have made. For reasons of both weight and volume, larger models should be dumped at a regular RV dump station, and it is best practice regardless of size.

The pros and cons of all the various sanitary technologies are endlessly debated in older threads. Brands and models change, but the basic idea of a composting (aka separating or desiccating) toilet is pretty much the same.

[kari13]

I think in the USA cassette toilet/chemical toilet are used somewhat interchangeably although they refer to something a bit different in Europe. Truly I'm not that interested in chemical toilets (they would rank last for me), but composting toilets peak my interest.

I was first introduced to composting toilets when I worked as an outdoor educator at a facility that had two large Clivus Multrum style composting toilets that would be used by hundreds of people every season. Part of our job was to "rotate the waste" seasonally. While it was a bit of an ordeal (largely due to the sheer quantity of waste and the fact that many users did a poor job of following instructions about what NOT to put in to the toilet), I realized it wasn't all that bad.

However, I realize portable composting toilets function a little differently. For example, none of the residential/permanent models I have ever used had a system that separated liquid and solid waste (I've read many women struggle with urine diverting toilets and I suspect it would be challenging for a toddler too), and all of them required ample ventilation and organic additive medium to minimize odors. There is also a significant difference in between intending to actually compost human waste vs bagging it up like dog poop and tossing it in a dumpster, which seems to be how most people who use the less expensive portable composting toilets dispose of solids. Realistically that is the approach we would most likely take, as we don't have tons of land in which we can safely compost human waste nor a facility near us that provides that option.

And while the principles remain the same, I'm always interested to learn which products are preferred, and a newer model (one that better contains smells, is easier to clean, etc) might not be referenced in old threads.

Thanks for the insight, as always!

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by kari13

If you haven't gathered by now I LOVE to do my research when shopping for new things.

So Scamps currently have a 6 gallon blackwater tank (maybe some older models have a 9 gallon tank). I have no experience with RV systems but that seems quite small. A Scamp rep tells me that should last 2-3 people 3-5 days before needing to be emptied.

I do a lot of boondocking/dry camping. I find that generally the gray water is a lot more of a limit. My black water has lasted 5 guys 3 days. (We did bag the paper and burn it) I have gone 5+ days with just me or me and a kid.



I do take about 12 more gallons of fresh water in jugs and then have a pump that put it in the fresh tank.

[ShelbyM]

That's been my experience with the gray and black capacities as well. It's pretty easy to also dump a black tank when dumping the gray. And yes, I understand there may be a few places where you can still randomly dump gray on the ground.

[mosquito13]

I carry a five gallon bucket and reliance lid. The awfull plastic grocery bags fit ok and a classic repurpose . Handy when no campsite bathroom available and can't play bear. BTW the magnifying glass on the menu bar allows search of all posts with your entered search words. Just MPO but I try to avoid any food preperation or disposal in the camper to avoid smells being absorbed.

[chrisblessing]

We have a 13' with no bath. We live in SE Arizona where deep freeze is a rarity. We recently traded our chemical toilet for a Cuddy composting toilet. It's brilliant. The urine diverter is effective and easy to manage. I recommend a look.

I did add an 8 gallon grey water tank to allow us to make better use of the sink.

Most of our use is boondocking.