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Old 03-19-2019, 07:33 PM   #21
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While the water heater on both my casita and escape is just a few gallons, it seems to keep water hot as long as its running. I've taken some extended showers when we've been in campgrounds with full hookups, including shampooing my formerly long hair, and the water seemed to stay hot as long as I cared.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:35 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
The Tankless unit I have takes very little time to give hot water, but I am not boondocking.
To get hot water quicker change out the hot water lines for smaller lines that take less volume to move the hot water to the point of use.
Since we do not use that high a volume the smaller line will still deliver enough to get the job done.
That said I have not changed my 1/2" lines for 3/8 PEX.
Also showering outside or jumping into the lakes and streams would be the same as dumping you gray water on the ground, which is not allowed in many states or National Parks.
I am a little bit confused , if you canít jump in a lake how does one go swimming in a lake ?
If I stand outside when itís raining to cool off is that okay ?
Can I dump gray water in a fire pit to extinguish the fire or do I have to use bottled water ?
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:20 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
I am a little bit confused , if you canít jump in a lake how does one go swimming in a lake ?
If I stand outside when itís raining to cool off is that okay ?
Can I dump gray water in a fire pit to extinguish the fire or do I have to use bottled water ?
I would think that the main difference would be the soap and added food residue from gray water along with the bacterial contend from soiled people etc.

At the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality (ADEQ) I found this definition: ďGray water is defined as wastewater, collected separately from sewage, that originates from a clothes washer, bathtub, shower or sink, but not from a kitchen sink, dishwasher or toilet. Gray water is distinguished from Ďblack water,í which is wastewater from toilets, kitchen sinks and dishwashers.Ē (emphasis added)

The ADEQ also stated that a citation could occur in a situation that went ďbeyond simple gray water dumping, and the citation would likely be for some other offense related to degradation of resources or public health and safety issues.Ē
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:03 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Doug Arthurs View Post
Please avoid rinsing off in lakes and streams. It is very bad for the lake. Rinse off inland with a bucket. This will give allow chemicals to break down before they return to the lake. Below is link to an article with more info.

https://www.treehugger.com/clean-wat...V05KLurYN8v4BE
The name of your link answered my question before I looked at the site
I said RINSE off in a lake or pond . NOWHERE did I mention SOAP / SHAMPOO
What I am talking about is just dumping a bucket of water over your body or jumping in a pond / lake and splashing around . All your trying to do is rinse / cool off
The idea that taking a hot shower with soap before going swimming in a lake to conserve water or save the planet is just plain silly .
Iíve been standing in a lake in the BWCA cooling off when a moose walked up and took a S**T in the lake . If your worried about the water I suggest you talk to the moose!!
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:32 AM   #25
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What are you rinsing off?
That is the question.
One person would make little or no difference, but many would.
Of course the best answer is to err on the side of caution.
By the way Moose ____ and Fish ___ are not covered by federal regulations as far as I know.
Not meaning to be negative here, just trying to post the information.
The point is human waste and food particles into the surface water where soil bacteria can break them down.
Streams are already heavily stressed by pollution and should be protected from the additional stress.
Who knows when and where that happens.
You go into the far reaches to appreciate the undisturbed "wilderness" leave it that way.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:43 AM   #26
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It kind of comes down to what everything does these days, which is the number of people in the world.

I get being annoyed by someone calling you out for jumping in a lake or river and calling it a "shower". People have done it since there were people. Getting in a stream or lake and taking a full bath with soap and shampoo is a different story, but that used to be completely fine, too.

It's just that hundreds of thousands of people doing it will have a very different effect...

We have tons of trails in the foothills right in town where I live. They used to have very little traffic. I never cleaned up my dog's poop. I thought "it's poop, animals poop in the woods. Why would I take something biodegradable, put it in a plastic bag, and throw it in the trash??" He doesn't poop right on the trail like some dogs, he's always off in the tall grass.

Well at some point I had to change. So many people use the trails now, by spring when the snow thaws, there are spots near the trailhead (since most dogs takes care of business within the first 50 yards or so) that got pretty ripe. You couldn't go anywhere on the trail system without worrying about stepping in poop. I pick his poop up now.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:55 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
What are you rinsing off?
That is the question.
One person would make little or no difference, but many would.
Of course the best answer is to err on the side of caution.
By the way Moose ____ and Fish ___ are not covered by federal regulations as far as I know.
Not meaning to be negative here, just trying to post the information.
The point is human waste and food particles into the surface water where soil bacteria can break them down.
Streams are already heavily stressed by pollution and should be protected from the additional stress.
Who knows when and where that happens.
You go into the far reaches to appreciate the undisturbed "wilderness" leave it that way.
I coat myself with toxic radioactive chemicals then I jump into the most pristine stream I can find in an attempt to do as much environental damage as possible
Again no one said anything about dumping gray water , human waste , soap or toxic waste in surface water . I don’t object to those who want to protect our environment but when it is taken to some ridiculous extreme I do

My neighbor owns a septic pumping business . He spreads the effluence he collects on a 200 acre parcel of land he owns . He is licensed and has the necessary permit . Next to him is a large dairy farmer with over 200 cows
Every Spring he spreads the manure he collects from his cows on his crop lands
ALL PERFECTLY LEGAL !!
Yet if I stand outside on a hot Summer’s day , turn on my trailer’s outside shower and rinse myself off , letting the water run on the ground , I have destroyed nature forever . Seems like a big load of BS to me !!!

Next time my grandkids want to run through the sprinkler during the Summer , I’ll stop them . Wouldn’t want them to be labeled as polluters !!
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:27 AM   #28
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I agree, if you start comparing your own actions to what is completely legal in industrial standards, it does start to seem ridiculous that we'd even worry about dumping black water on the ground.

I do personally like to live by my own standards and be as clean as possible, rather than thinking "that factory is dumping toxic chemicals into the air and river, I'm not going to worry about shampooing in the lake!" Even though it's a completely reasonable position.
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Old 03-20-2019, 12:01 PM   #29
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It’s always puzzled me that it seem the people that yell the loudest about dumping a quart of gray water on the ground are the same ones who light a campfire first thing in the morning using wet firewood and then watch it smolder all day clouding the area with smoke
If someone in your family suffers from COPD you would understand .
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:55 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
A Navy shower does not take much.
Wet down, soap up, rinse
I was in the Air Force. Wet down, wet down some more, soap up with the water running, rinse for 5-10 minutes, done.

On our Scamp, I use about 2.5 gallons, quick wet down, shut off and soap, rinse. Rinse takes the most water, my psoriasis tends to get aggravated by any left over soap residue.

I replaced the standard Scamp showerhead with one called Niagara Earth massage handheld with 1.5 GPM flow, and added a shutoff switch. I earlier ordered an Oxygenics but in my test the Niagara used the least amount of water so I returned the Oxygenics. The Oxygenics actually used more water than the standard Scamp shower head.

We also use adult wipes for days between showers.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:56 PM   #31
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Bug Sprayer Shower

My Favorite, uses 1Gal,

Heat up 1/2Gal water on the Stove to about Boiling

Mix it with 1/2Gal cold water in the Dedicated Modified Bug Sprayer,

wet, soap up rinse in bathroom stall.

Heating up the water heats up the Cabin too.
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:59 PM   #32
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Oh yeah, that won't freak out the tree huggers, Watching someone rinse off using a bug sprayer. Try and explain that one as they zip tie you to a tree and call homeland security. That would fall under there jurisdiction wouldn't it???
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:24 AM   #33
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There is a blogger (with long hair, BTW) living full-time in a no-bath 13í Scamp. She uses the bug sprayer method. Outside. There are places where that would be unacceptable, but it has merit for some people in some situations.

Iím good with a sponge bath out of a basin, and when available I can get clean with a one-token campground shower. My wife, who has thick, medium length hair, requires several.

Personal hygiene is... well... personal.

Seems like the OP has an on-board shower and intends to use it. How much water? With care, maybe 2-3 gallons per shower, but itís not hard to use a lot more if youíre not careful. Most important practice is shutting off the water while you soap up.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:48 AM   #34
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I think I know the blogger you mean. Though they're pretty inspiring to me in a lot of ways, I also wonder how well they deal with their waste, when it comes to the bathroom.

It's another one of those things...too many people start doing what they're doing and you won't be able to go anywhere on public land without stepping in poop.

There are all sorts of ways to do it. I'm about to head to Utah for a few weeks, without the camper, and I'm brining the old fashioned solar shower bag with me. Good enough. Bathing suit and the shower hanging from my roof rack. It gets me clean enough to be presentable when it's time to head to town for a few hours.

Since we've heard nothing more from the OP I don't mind the thread creep too much. I think the water meter is still the best idea.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:58 AM   #35
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I donít pay much attention to bloggers, Zach, but I did happen to read about the bug sprayer, which I had not heard about. I have no idea what they do about the toilet, but I agree thatís a big deal.

I was kayak camping on a nearby drinking water reservoir and stumbled on a frequently used camping spot that was completely covered with shallow cat holes and uncovered human fecal waste. Totally unacceptable, and I moved on hastily. Havenít been back to that lake.
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:43 AM   #36
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May or may not be the same one, but I agree. Every now and then I get sucked into watching youtube videos for a half hour.

I hope to backpack well into old(er) age, but I kind of hope I'm not doing it anymore when we're all required to pack our "waste" out. Already have to do it for rafting trips and some backpacking trips. I guess you get used to it. But I'd prefer not to...

Unfortunately, with the amount of usage these places now see, it's the right call.
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Old 03-23-2019, 10:41 AM   #37
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Hello,


We use approximately 1-1.25 gallons per shower. We try to conserve water as much as possible. We have gone five days/four nights without dumping the gray water tank in our Scamp 13. This is eight showers, hand washing, and dish washing.


Susan
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:35 AM   #38
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Shower with drinking water?

Nope, save the drinking water and use the local lake or stream.

:-)
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:40 AM   #39
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Water

What shower head u use makes a big difference. Typically the one that comes stock with camper is not very restrictive and flows a large volume. There r many heads that flow much less than stock. Change your head...
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:55 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jprussell1952 View Post
shower with drinking water?

Nope, save the drinking water and use the local lake or stream.

:-)
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