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-   -   Scamp 19 anyone modified to tow behind an SUV? (https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f72/scamp-19-anyone-modified-to-tow-behind-an-suv-44902.html)

Wayne Hill 01-22-2011 11:09 AM

Scamp 19 anyone modified to tow behind an SUV?
 
Good morning,
I was wondering if anyone has modified their 19 ft Scamp to enable it to become a bumper pull?
By either modifying the trailer frame and hitch or extended the ball mount on the SUV or a combination of both?.
Is the frame a one piece support or is it bolted onto the existing trailer frame somewhere so that modifications can be made to it?

Anyone have any thoughts on how safe this would be?
How about handling characteristics when towing?
Would the trailer front clear the back of the SUV when turning?
It would sure look weird.
Wayne

Jerry71 01-22-2011 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Hill (Post 234771)
Good morning,
I was wondering if anyone has modified their 19 ft Scamp to enable it to become a bumper pull?
By either modifying the trailer frame and hitch or extended the ball mount on the SUV or a combination of both?.
Is the frame a one piece support or is it bolted onto the existing trailer frame somewhere so that modifications can be made to it?

Anyone have any thoughts on how safe this would be?
How about handling characteristics when towing?
Would the trailer front clear the back of the SUV when turning?
It would sure look weird.
Wayne

Here is a thread that has discussed this before.
https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...eel-25839.html
I don't know what the out come was, but it may help. I swear at one time I saw a picture of some one that had done that exact thing. But I can't find it now.

Addendum: I knew I had seen a picture of it before. Here's the thread that I was referring to:
https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ull-37358.html
Doesn't look or sound like too many would be in favor of doing this however.

Wayne Hill 01-22-2011 08:11 PM

Jerry71,

Thanks for the information, links and picture.
Somehow I missed seeing that when I did a search.
As per some of the conversations. My "gut" said that it is a bad idea but I was interested to know if anyone had put together a system.
I had something like that picture of the modified hitch arrangement figured out in my head, except that it would be a 18" rise ball mount that fit into a regular 2" receiver. The ball and ball mount are certified and manufactured to carry more than the hitch is rated for. (750 - 7500 lbs)

Rear weight on the receiver would be approx 500 lbs. Trailer towing weight would be well within the 5000 lb hitch capacity.

Wayne

Jerry71 01-22-2011 08:28 PM

3 Attachment(s)
You mean something kind of like this?:loltu
You may have seen this before, but it is worth a second look.
Sometimes you just have to shake your head and wonder.

Wayne Hill 01-22-2011 08:44 PM

Jerry,
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ...Wipe tears from my eyes.. Look again. HA HA HA
Especially like the wood 4 x 4 on the hitch complete with dowel so that it doesn't slip out HA HA HA HA
How about the sheet metal screws holding the hitch on? They don't appear to go thru both sides of the tail gate.
I guess why bother? After all he did reinforce the tail gate with dog chain? HA HA HA
And last but not least, any turns you make would have to take 10 miles or so or you would bend either your rear or the trailer. Oh my aching sides.

And it's in the mountains somewhere.. HA HA HA HA

Jerry, that is so NOT what I had in mind. HA HA HA

Wayne

Borden 01-26-2011 09:50 AM

what about a hitch connected to a dolly rig with 5th wheel on it; the dolly would take the weight and the suv would do the pull:reye2 This system is used to pull a pup behind a Tandom dump truck all the time.

Borden 01-26-2011 10:16 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Wayne Hill
See pic from wikipedia of pup 5th wheel dolly behind a tandom dump truck

Borden 01-26-2011 10:22 AM

A solution is but an idea away

Borden 01-26-2011 10:30 AM

This is truly a fun shot
 
:pLike all the info I get on this site great group! Great pictures of the pickup truck solution

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry71 (Post 234826)
You mean something kind of like this?:loltu
You may have seen this before, but it is worth a second look.
Sometimes you just have to shake your head and wonder.


Donna D. 01-26-2011 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borden (Post 235211)
what about a hitch connected to a dolly rig with 5th wheel on it; the dolly would take the weight and the suv would do the pull:reye2 This system is used to pull a pup behind a Tandom dump truck all the time.

Commercial rigs have one set of rules of the road, etc. and common citizens get another set of rules. Using a dolly to pull a 5th wheel or gooseneck by a citizen with a non-commercial tug is not legal in Oregon. Same may apply in other states.

Jerry71 01-26-2011 05:44 PM

It looks like folks have been trying to figure this porblem out for quite some time now.

YouTube - 1974 Volkswagen Beetle & Camper - road test

At least since 1974.

I guess the link won't let me imbed it here. If you so inclince check out this utube vidio. It's pretty amazing.

Borden 01-27-2011 12:48 AM

The ideas all would likely be band by MTO in Ontario but this is fun.

Donna D. 01-27-2011 06:46 AM

The only solution I can think of that would work and would (probably) be legal everywhere is to put the 5th wheel on a flat bed trailer. But perhaps that would cause an over weight problem....

Wayne Hill 01-27-2011 06:50 AM

Hi Jerry71,
Where do you find this stuff?. The hitch looks suspiciously like the Scamps present day hook up. Has anyone from Scamp seen this?
YouTube - 1974 Volkswagen Beetle & Camper - road test

By the way I got the video to run just fine. I clicked on the top line which turns yellow , actually I right clicked it and hit OPEN.

Boy, am I ever behind the pack, since 1974 wow. LOL

We couldn't do it today - no rain gutters on most vehicles. LOL

Wayne

Lizbeth 01-27-2011 05:25 PM

Over the last few year there have been a couple (or possibly the same one more than once) Scamps for sale that have been modified to bumper tow. There was a bolt on framework that ran from the trailer frame under the trailer and also under the overhead. Kind of an "L" shaped affair that could be removed to return it to a bed hitch.

Greg H 01-27-2011 07:42 PM

I always get in trouble but, why would you do this?

Lizbeth 01-27-2011 07:56 PM

Because not everyone loves having the bed of the truck taken up by the hitch but still wants a 5th wheel.

Greg H 01-27-2011 08:17 PM

Yeah I guess, I've got a 31'Nomad 5er here but I guess I never really worried about the hitch because it was removable and the trailer was big enough to haul the junk that didn't fit the bed. I have seen guys pulling Gooseneck horse trailers to the dealers with the second trailer hooked to some kind of two wheeled dolly.

Lyndon Laney 01-28-2011 06:08 AM

1 Attachment(s)
[QUOTE=Wayne Hill;234771]Good morning,
I was wondering if anyone has modified their 19 ft Scamp to enable it to become a bumper pull?
By either modifying the trailer frame and hitch or extended the ball mount on the SUV or a combination of both?.
Is the frame a one piece support or is it bolted onto the existing trailer frame somewhere so that modifications can be made to it?
I think the weight would be too great for most smaller TV's But it has been done and quite sucessful by a friend of mine in Wi. This set up has worked for the many years now and he has done this all his life so not just a whim. I have seen another that was not very safe Here is a picture of Frank's set up

Wayne Hill 01-28-2011 06:54 AM

Lyndon Laney;
Thanks for the photo. You are right, it would be too heavy for most smaller SUVs - typically tow rated at 500 lbs and 5000 lbs? Just running the numbers on my SUV, pretty much anything added to the front frame of the trailer would put my SUV over its rated capacity. Interesting hook up none the less.
It gave me a good visual of what "my" initial design would look like.
Wayne

DonDeutsch 01-28-2011 07:40 AM

Why not just get a bigger trailer?

Kevin K 01-28-2011 11:32 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Just buy a rig like thisAttachment 33079 you would be the talk of the camp ground.

Wayne Hill 01-28-2011 02:33 PM

Kevin K;
Take that fancy wing off and put on a scamp hitch and you would be the talk of the campground. LOL
Wayne

mikedup 04-13-2011 08:47 AM

good lord!
Not only does this sound incredibly dangerous, but looking at the SUV in the pictures (is that a Jimmy or Bronco?) it can't be that good for the vehicle either.

That being said, I'm sure this is done a lot more than we think. Everyone knows someone who "rigs" something up... it doesn't matter where you are :)

Jerryscamping 12-04-2020 10:16 AM

Hello Wayne, I converted my 19 fifth wheel Scamp to a bumper hitch boy does it pull wonderful.

It's listed for sale under Jerryscamping

you have to look it up because I can not figure how to ad a picture.

CPW 12-04-2020 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizbeth (Post 235351)
Because not everyone loves having the bed of the truck taken up by the hitch but still wants a 5th wheel.

Just to point out, 5th Wheel refers to the type of connection, not the style of trailer. And the Scamp 19 actually isnít a 5th wheel; it uses a proprietary hitch in the bed of the truck similar to a 5th Wheel but requires safety chains. Once converted to bumper pull, it is a bumper pull trailer.

Jerryscamping 12-04-2020 10:33 AM

I stand corrected thanks

Jerryscamping 12-21-2020 11:25 AM

I did install a bumper hitch on my 2014 19ft scamp. It can be seen in the
classifieds located in Twentynine Palms Ca. Jerryscamp is my username
It tows like a dream, I can remove it in 20 minutes just un bolts. The tongue weight is exactly what Scamp said it is-500 Lbs.Towes right along with the heavy truck traffic no wind sway. Have a 2019 Honda Ridgeline with a plastic bed and trunk, so had to go that route. Check it out.

patrick crawford 12-22-2020 07:33 AM

i posted a photo of a bumper pull conversion of the scamp 5'er a while back here... https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/...ull-37358.html

p@

dblcola 12-24-2020 10:27 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Or how about this?

Seacap10 02-06-2021 11:08 AM

19 Scamp hitch Tow
 
1 Attachment(s)
I just bought a 2015 19 Deluxe after selling my S-16 deluxe...
I had to get it home and built this bumper tow rig "Just to get it home"

Definitely Not Recommended and likely not legal anywhere LOL.
(But it Worked fine with my F250 Super Duty Diesel)

Its home now and I am cutting off the Scamp towing system and installing a removable 2 5/16" Gooseneck that will connect directly onto my Fords removable
Factory ball.

dblcola 02-06-2021 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seacap10 (Post 804548)
I just bought a 2015 19 Deluxe after selling my S-16 deluxe...
I had to get it home and built this bumper tow rig "Just to get it home"

Definitely Not Recommended and likely not legal anywhere LOL.
(But it Worked fine with my F250 Super Duty Diesel)

Its home now and I am cutting off the Scamp towing system and installing a removable 2 5/16" Gooseneck that will directly onto my Fords removable
Factory removable ball system.

Just curious how far did you tow it?

Seacap10 02-06-2021 11:17 AM

19 Scamp hitch Tow
 
About 50 miles on good roads...

Seacap10 03-16-2021 05:55 AM

Bumper hitch S 19
 
I love guys with an imagination...

https://images.app.goo.gl/k9juepNiJEyeLK5C8

Ceceoh 04-24-2021 06:53 PM

Can I ask - and Iím not trying to blow things up here - but what are the reasons for the conversion? Is it just to avoid drilling holes in the truck bed? Easier hook- up? Or safer towing? I had always heard that fifth wheels were more stable and easier to tow, but is this debatable?

I am planning on purchasing a Scamp 19í, new or used, very soon, and will also be buying the appropriate tow vehicle. While Iím excited about my plans for RVing, Iíll admit that my greatest fear is that I will totally botch hooking up the gooseneck, while a bunch of old-timers stand around laughing.

Seacap10 05-05-2021 01:46 AM

Bumper hitch 19
 
1 Attachment(s)
Lots of ways to accomplish this safely provided your vehicle is up to the job.

Joe MacDonald 05-11-2021 06:37 AM

1 Attachment(s)
something like this would possibly be legal

jwcolby123 05-30-2021 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Hill (Post 234771)
Good morning,
I was wondering if anyone has modified their 19 ft Scamp to enable it to become a bumper pull?
Wayne

I have seen it several times. Unless you can get the factory to mod it (doubtful) I strongly recommend against it. Several serious issues.

A bumper hitch causes a cantilever. Pressing down on the hitch causes an upward vector on the front of the vehicle which reduces steering. The 19' was purpose built for a ball directly over the back axle eliminating that.

When trailers are designed for bumper mounts the weight distribution is designed by the manufacturer around the placement of the axle i.e. A precise dry weight is placed on the ball. Too much or too little causes bouncing up and down on the hitch which causes bouncing up and down on the steers. See point one.

And finally, jury rigging a new mechanical doohicky to adapt a mount purpose built to place a specific weight directly over the axle, in order to shift that weight onto a ball hitch is a spectacularly bad idea. As the doohicky flexes in directions unknown, that ball is being dragged in directions unknow.

Have you ever been behind a trailer whipping back and forth behind it's tow vehicle? You do NOT want to be that tow vehicle. Your insurer does not want you to be that tow vehicle. The vehicles around you...

jwcolby123 05-30-2021 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe MacDonald (Post 813842)
something like this would possibly be legal

This looks like a fine idea. Perhaps a tad expensive. Done correctly you could even put fuel cans, propane tanks and batteries on it.

parmm 05-30-2021 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPW (Post 799968)
Just to point out, 5th Wheel refers to the type of connection, not the style of trailer. And the Scamp 19 actually isn’t a 5th wheel; it uses a proprietary hitch in the bed of the truck similar to a 5th Wheel but requires safety chains. Once converted to bumper pull, it is a bumper pull trailer.

I missed one question on my Class 1 driving test way back in 1970. How is a tractor connected to a trailer? I said fifth wheel and got it wrong!!! The proper answer was "coupling device". Back then, fifth wheel was a trucker nick name for the "coupling device". I don't remember what they called if for the CDL test when I had to take that. Official nomenclature changes over time, so today it might be "fifth wheel". I've always called it a fifth wheel, but when I took my first commercial test - fifth wheel was wrong!!! And if Scamp wants to call their Scamp 19 a fifth wheel, I think they have every right to it. They have been building their "Scamp Fifth Wheel", also known as the "Scamp 19", since 1981!! To my knowledge, no one has taken them to court over the name yet!

Seacap10 07-15-2021 04:32 AM

Fifth Wheel
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hmmm

redbarron55 07-15-2021 07:47 AM

One problem is that if converted to a bumper pull the wheels would be too far back overall I would think.
I have seen pictures of a number of botched attempts to do this very thing, but I think it would be a bad idea.
Most of the trailer is just a 16' Scamp with the extension to the front.
Personally I would not give up the front bath for the space in the front. My trailer originally had the side bath like the 19' and it leaves a lot (LOT) to be desired in my opinion as the floor is 6" higher and the roof line is lower.

parmm 07-15-2021 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbarron55 (Post 819634)
One problem is that if converted to a bumper pull the wheels would be too far back overall I would think.
I have seen pictures of a number of botched attempts to do this very thing, but I think it would be a bad idea.
Most of the trailer is just a 16' Scamp with the extension to the front.
Personally I would not give up the front bath for the space in the front. My trailer originally had the side bath like the 19' and it leaves a lot (LOT) to be desired in my opinion as the floor is 6" higher and the roof line is lower.

If converted to a bumper pull, you're talking about 400+ pounds tongue weight! And a weight distribution hitch is not available for that type of hitch sit up.

Jon in AZ 07-15-2021 08:19 AM

The best bumper pull conversions include an A-frame that connects to the main lower frame as well as a vertical support for the loft. See post #19.

Because there is not a continuous frame rail from the coupler to the axle, you still can’t use a WDH. With the weight of the conversion plus the pre-conversion hitch weight of an S19, you likely looking at closer to 600# on the hitch. That requires a pretty robust tow vehicle.

Seacap10 11-07-2021 12:14 AM

Bumper Hitch S19
 
1 Attachment(s)
It can be done and it works just fine...
I would be a great place to store bikes etc and free up the box of a pickup truck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5A0HZD4_GQ

jwcolby123 11-07-2021 01:15 PM

Uhhh well... yes, you can do it. Is it really just as simple as what is shown? Physically yes, design wise no. You are screwing with literally everything.

Any axle is a fulcrum. The weight of the RV on either side of the pivot point (axle) is balanced at the factory. And the downward pressure of Scamp 19 rv tow hitch is intended to press down directly over the drive axle of the tow vehicle NOT on a bumper hitch mount.

BTW the drive axles of the tow vehicle is also a fulcrum. Weight applied downwards on the tow ball is pushing up on everything forwards of the drive axle. Which means the steer tires get lighter as you push down on the ball. This does not occur if you place the pressure directly on the drive axle as designed. This gives the Scamp designers freedom to apply much more weight downwards on the tow ball in the bed of the truck because all they are doing is applying a load into the bed of the truck.

So you completely mess with the tongue weight of the scamp by sliding the ball forwards, plus it was never intended to press down on a bumper hitch ball, so what is the result? Are you doing an engineering analysis of the resulting forces? On what happens to the downwards pressure on the steer tires?

And then you are going to start loading the new "free space" with bicycles, and God knows what else, applying yet more down force onto the tow ball.

Yea, no problem...

Let's say that I personally wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole. And if the first law enforcement officer to pass you doesn't instantly write you a ticket and place you out of service, (s)he needs to be fired. And BTW (s)he can place you out of service, forcing you to get it towed somewhere.


Good luck with all that.

jwcolby123 11-07-2021 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seacap10 (Post 819619)
Hmmm


One of these little jobbie dos would work just fine. You are placing an axle under the coupler and this is done all the time. Look at double and triple trailers towed commercially. This is exactly what they do.

Seacap10 11-10-2021 03:26 AM

"A patent, or invention, is any assemblage of technologies or ideas that you can put together that nobody put together that way before. That's how the patent office defines it. That's an invention."

Dean Kamen

Quit looking at the walls and find out what's outside them...

Seacap10 11-10-2021 03:28 AM

"A patent, or invention, is any assemblage of technologies or ideas that you can put together that nobody put together that way before. That's how the patent office defines it. That's an invention."

Dean Kamen

Quit looking at the walls and find out what's outside them...

Seacap10 11-10-2021 03:51 AM

1 Attachment(s)
"A patent, or invention, is any assemblage of technologies or ideas that you can put together that nobody put together that way before. That's how the patent office defines it. That's an invention."

Dean Kamen

Quit looking at the walls and find out what's outside them...

jwcolby123 11-11-2021 11:42 AM

I like it


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