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mtnwater 09-29-2014 09:47 PM

Add one to the list of those that would prefer a grey water tank. I love the cassette toilet and no blackwater hassle, but it'd be nice to not have to deal with a the tote-style grey tank. I suppose you've planned for a dedicated nook/closet for the tote?

Mike Magee 09-29-2014 09:52 PM

If a fresh water tank and a potty cassette can be enclosed within the trailer body, it seems to me that a gray water tank inside the trailer should be possible. An external tote requirement is more common with low-end, less expensive units such as pop-ups. I'm not sure the inconvenience of having to wrestle a tank around and finding a place to stow it will go over well with many buyers. You may reduce the number of potential customers with that single missing feature.

If layout precludes gravity flow into an internally-housed gray tank, perhaps you could add a pump. Scamp uses a pump to move gray water from the shower drain to the tank in some models.

Timber Wolf 09-30-2014 06:32 AM

Hmmm, I did not want to get involved in thread drift and I have really enjoyed seeing the process but the no grey tank is a head scratcher. Seems to be a pretty big step back to not have some on board grey waste capacity and certainly seems out of place in a “premium” unit. I know I would not want to have to drag around an external tank, and where would somebody store it? Are they supposed to carry it in the back of their high dollar SUV? Who wants to get it out and hook it up for a quick overnighter?

Ken C 09-30-2014 06:39 AM

I've seen a number of motorhome and 5th's with the empty blue tote mounted under them for travel. I think we even had a fiberglass member here post photos of it underneath. Aesthetics..... a big thumbs down for some.

Edit for Norm: a no dump situation would be tricky. Grey water gets pretty heavy to lift around.

honda03842 09-30-2014 07:33 AM


The big rigs do it so they don't have to move when they are in a non-full hook up site. Our motor home had a 100 gallons of waste tanks. Totally a different situation.

Where do you store a portable grey tank when you're in a 'no dump' situation? This is a very expensive trailer for it's size and I think this is a marketing mistake.

I do love the thread and find the design interesting and the execution of the molds even more interesting.

David Tilston 09-30-2014 09:08 AM

As a Trillium guy, no grey tank makes sense to me. I like the simplicity. Mind you, I don't shower in my trailer.

Rob Outlaw 09-30-2014 09:44 AM

We own a T@b and also have to use a external Thetford Blue tote waster water tank. Hate it pure and simple and one of the dominant reasons we started looking towards a larger more accommodating travel trailer. I agree with Norm this is a huge marketing mistake not to include the gray water waste tank for what is an otherwise fabulous little camper. I get the part about black tanks and the port a potty but not the waste water. Robert you really do need to reconsider this IMHO.

Hope this helps.


Carol H 09-30-2014 10:19 AM


Originally Posted by honda03842 (Post 485155)

The big rigs do it so they don't have to move when they are in a non-full hook up site. Our motor home had a 100 gallons of waste tanks. Totally a different situation.

:ask Different situation on a big rig? How? I know a lot of folks with small fiberglass trailers who like to camp off the grid who also have small portable waste totes. Mine is about 8 gallons and I use it to drain off the grey water & black tank when camping in one spot for more than four days.

I am also in the camp of those who feel an onboard grey water tank (even a small one) is something I would not be happy not having. It might surprise some as to how many amazing spots there are to camp that require the trailer to be self-contained - an outside portable tote sitting on the ground does not fit that bill and you will be asked to leave. An onboard holding tank is the only thing allowed as outside portable totes are attractions to wild life - in these parts bears & cougars come to mine! The buckets that I see many small Bolers us for waste water are also serious fly attractants.

Perhaps a small cassette type grey water tank that would hold a day or two worth of wash water would be a good compromise.

mtnwater 09-30-2014 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by Robert Johans (Post 485071)
...the Nest will not feature on-board waste tanks. Perhaps controversial, but based upon research we conducted before we began designing, we decided to go along with the slight majority that preferred to keep things simple.

Robert - curious to hear more about the "research" that apparently helped you make the decision to not include a grey water tank. Just curious who you polled, and when. An informal count of responses in the past couple days would suggest the overwhelming majority would prefer a permanently mounted grey water tank.

I agree with others that at this price point, not having a grey water tank could be a serious deterrent for potential buyers. Some might re-think the extra $$ for an airstream or similar. As an enthusiastically interested customer, I'd be pretty disappointed to have to deal with an external waste water solution on such an otherwise well-thought out trailer.

Jim Bennett 09-30-2014 12:13 PM

Now that Robert is fully aware of folks thoughts on the grey tank, I would ask that members refrain from other posts on this topic. I take full responsibility for starting this sidetrack to the thread (and will reprimand myself accordingly :)), which is supposed to be focused ONLY on the build process that Nest is taking the trailer through, without cluttering this documentary with this kinda thing.

Thanks so much.

emers382 09-30-2014 12:17 PM

My thoughts exactly Jim. I did look at their website this morning and noted again that everything they are using is excellent quality even a cork floor standard. Was that your suggestion?!


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honda03842 09-30-2014 12:21 PM

The response to the gray tank are very interesting and may be most important to the future Nest. Yes just a little off thread, but maybe critical to that future.

Robert Johans 09-30-2014 12:37 PM

Folks, I do appreciate your comments about the waste water tanks. Obviously, now is the time to resolve these decisions. Given your thoughtful reasonings, I will once again re-visit this issue. Thanks.

Now back to the build! Tomorrow we pull our first parts from the molds!

Roger C H 09-30-2014 12:56 PM

Just found this thread
It is interesting to see how one goes about making something like this. Like most things the devil is in the details and there is a lot of work not immediately apparent to a casual observer. As a former engineering technician, I have some concept of how much work you are putting in. I do like the idea of a frameless design because that always struck me as strange that you have a rustless body and then a frame underneath which could rust right out from under you. I used to work where they made transformers and they use a powder coating to prevent rust.
I also see that there is much money that has to be provided up front with a long time before any income will be seen.
Wishing you all success with your innovative design. :D

As to the grey/black water issue. We use a portapotti for yellow water and a bucket for grey water. Have never had any problem with either. There are parks that require a totally contained rig, but we have found don't ask, don't tell works. I have found that it is easy to pour down the sewer connection every morning. I don't think handling something that has sat for days is disireable. We didn't empty one morning and things got rank rather quickly.
What a thing to talk about in public. :eek:

PS: I thought you had prototypes built already. That shows how good the computer design programs are.

Robert Johans 09-30-2014 05:04 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Here's Phil putting some finishing details onto the mold of the rear cap. After a little trimming, like the top and bottom molds, this too gets a steel frame put around it.

Robert Johans 09-30-2014 05:18 PM

3 Attachment(s)
These shots show how the the shell floor will get some of its structure.

Super dense foam panels have been cut to shape and laid into temporary position to check for fit. When the shell part is set up for infusion tomorrow, this foam will be sandwiched between thick layers of FG.

Look closely at the open areas between the wheel wells and foam here is where long blocks of hard plastic-like material will be laid, also embedded between FG layers. It is through these blocks that the axle bracket below will be mounted.

War Eagle 09-30-2014 08:59 PM


Originally Posted by Robert Johans (Post 485287)
Here's Phil putting some finishing details onto the mold of the rear cap. After a little trimming, like the top and bottom molds, this too gets a steel frame put around it.

Robert, Now that you have the mold for the rear cap, how wide will the rear entry door be? Wide enough for a youth wheelchair to fit through (say at least 29" clearance)? I can't help but believe that there is a market out there for a small camper that would accommodate a parent with a wheelchair-bound child (with appropriate interior modifications). It seems it would have to be rear-entry design (wheelchair ramp mounted to the rear bumper with a straight shot in to a center aisle), so that means Nest, Lil' Snoozy, and perhaps the upstart Happy Camper depending on how it materializes (advantage Snoozy because when you remove the love seat, there is no interior wheel well hump taking up space needed for a wheelchair to maneuver around).

So back to the Nest - how wide is the rear entry door clearance going to be? Just curious....

Robert Johans 10-03-2014 02:42 PM

Dale, the Nest is about 81" wide, and the entry door is 27". Not quite wide enough for a wheel chair in this initial design.

However, because the rear cap is a separate component, we have the capability of creating alternate entry designs someday... like double doors perhaps, for those that wish to customize their Nest for more "toy hauling" capabilities.

Robert Johans 10-03-2014 02:52 PM

4 Attachment(s)
With the molds complete, and prepped for production, the first step is to spray into the mold the gelcoat, followed by a barrier coat.

The top shell is coated with a "silver" gelcoat, while the bottom gets white.

The black barrier coat prevents any "print through" of the fiberglass layers, which are applied after the spray coats are dry.

Fiberglass layers? Right, instead of the old-school "chopper gun" production process, we've chosen to go with the latest infusion-method technology. Roughly speaking, chopper gun produces something of a 65% resin to 35% FG ratio, whereas infusion provides the opposite. This makes the infusion product significantly stronger and lighter in the end. Of course, it is much more expensive and labor intensive, but we believe the pay off is worth it.

Robert Johans 10-03-2014 02:58 PM

4 Attachment(s)
With the spray layers now dry, the layers of fiberglass materials are cut to shape and laid into the mold.

A variety of materials are layered one over the other to provide as much strength and stiffness as necessary.

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