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-   -   Musing from a new Scamp owner (https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f55/musing-from-a-new-scamp-owner-72620.html)

gordon2 07-22-2016 02:40 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ (Post 599397)
Is that because of the bed, the extra storage, the appearance, or...?

Mostly because of the different construction techniques.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raz (Post 599439)
...One night, just backed into a site. I opened the door to the trailer to find a rather long (1 1/2") screw on the floor. Took me an hour to figure out it was from the knob on the fantastic fan. I must have forgot to tighten it. Stuff like that is common. Be prepared. :) Raz

Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me.. I did have to re-tighten all four Jalousie window handles mid-way through my three week trip. So maybe it was not problem free? Heck if that is the biggest problem I have in three weeks I will be very happy.

But you also reminded me that I had another manufacturing defect when I bought the camper that I had not mentioned before. Seems that the sewing on one of the curtains missed the mark. To be fair, since I ordered the camper with the curtains and curtain rods not installed, the curtains were never even unfolded. I guess if they had installed them, they would have caught this.

If you think this is nit-picking, you are right. That is the point. Although I had a number of issues to deal with, they were mostly minor and correctable by most people at little or no expense.

Raz 07-22-2016 06:48 PM

I guess my point is that once you get the trailer fixed the way it should have been when you picked it up, it's only the beginning.:).

Oh, and in regard to the jalousie knobs don't do what I did.

https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ues-74804.html

gordon2 07-23-2016 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raz (Post 599486)
I guess my point is that once you get the trailer fixed the way it should have been when you picked it up, it's only the beginning.:).

it's only the beginning of???? More repairs perhaps? There is the tell-tail signature of black powder from aluminum under a few rivets and elsewhere. The stresses of travel are already having an effect.

floyd 07-23-2016 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon2 (Post 599579)
it's only the beginning of???? More repairs perhaps?

I have owned ...
about 80 cars (15 new),
6 houses (from 12 to 110 years old)
25+ RV trailers (1 new)
20 good quality bicycles (5 new)

EVERY SINGLE ONE of these items had to be improved at purchase, which marked only the beginning of constant maintenance or improvement.
NOTHING in the natural world is static... it will improve or deteriorate depending on the effort applied over time, and BTW; that battle ALWAYS has a losing outcome, eventually.^_^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv3fKGfEmxc

CampyTime 07-23-2016 07:04 PM

This is true Floyd. As Frost's poem attests, "Nothing Gold Can Stay."

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CPW 07-26-2016 06:11 PM

Musing from a new Scamp owner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by floyd (Post 599593)
NOTHING in the natural world is static... it will improve or deteriorate depending on the effort applied over time, and BTW; that battle ALWAYS has a losing outcome, eventually.^_^


There are, of course, certain things that are of such poor quality to begin with that the eventual losing outcome occurs sooner rather than later, or one could even say much sooner than it should. Unfortunately, no amount of "improvement" can overcome certain deficiencies. And what one person might consider improvement, another might consider unnecessary or even an abomination.


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floyd 07-27-2016 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPW (Post 600214)
There are, of course, certain things that are of such poor quality to begin with that the eventual losing outcome occurs sooner rather than later, or one could even say much sooner than it should. Unfortunately, no amount of "improvement" can overcome certain deficiencies. And what one person might consider improvement, another might consider unnecessary or even an abomination.


Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV

While this is pretty much true, it scarcely applies to any fiberglass trailer.
While subjective judgement comes from stuff like attitude, skill level and ambition, there remains a fair level of objectivity which can be applied, for example...

In law there is a thing called the "reasonable man theory" which refers to a test whereby a hypothetical reasonable man is used as a legal standard, especially to determine if someone acted with negligence. This hypothetical exercises average care, skill, and judgment in conduct which affects his own interests and those of others. This serves as a comparative standard for determining liability. Often the determination of guilt may involve the application of an "objective" test in which his conduct is compared to that of a reasonable person under similar circumstances.
Guess we can say then that while we can't define reasonable judgement, we know it when we see it! :big_boss: :thumb
Still , while a jury might reach a unanimous conclusion, it is pretty much a forgone conclusion that only half of the contestants in any given lawsuit will agree!:loltu

CPW 07-27-2016 05:57 PM

Musing from a new Scamp owner
 
Floyd, I'm not sure why you think I was specifically referring to fiberglass trailers; I wasn't. So much stuff today is both under engineered and/or manufactured from substandard materials that much of it becomes unserviceable shortly after purchase. But since you brought it up, some fiberglass trailers are engineered and manufactured with much more care and higher quality components than others. It is inevitable, given the mindset of differing company management. Even on the same automobile assembly line in the same factory, some units turn out to be "lemons" while others prove to be trouble free.

And even the courts cannot determine or declare what constitutes reasonableness; it is purely subjective. As you say, it cannot be defined. If your neighbor paints his/her house Pepto-Bismol pink he/she may believe it to be an improvement; you may see it as an abomination. There are people who cannot admit that they might be wrong. Even in the face of an overwhelming majority opinion, they believe they are being objective and reasonable. If every one of their neighbors told him/her that their pink house was a neighborhood eye sore, they would defend their color choice with their dying breath. Are they being reasonable? They are surely entitled to their opinion. Given the way attorneys are allowed to hand pick juries nowadays,12 color blind jurists might unanimously conclude that there is nothing offensive about the pink house. Is that verdict reasonable; is it subjective or objective?


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floyd 07-30-2016 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPW (Post 600389)
might unanimously conclude that there is nothing offensive about the pink house. Is that verdict reasonable; is it subjective or objective?


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sounds reasonable to me!:loltu
I do get your point...
Yesterday my chop saw quit. A brush failed. The brushes are supposed to be replaceable but the retainer is made of plastic which melted when the brush failed. No matter since the brushes were not available anyway.
I went out and bought another chop saw. When I cut about half way through a light gauge 1X2 rectangular tube, a brush failed on the new saw and shot flames out the side of the housing about 3".
I finished the job using cut off blades in a 4" grinder after I returned the new chop saw. Maybe it was just bad luck but I saw it as just a shoddy product. Now I must choose between no saw or another POS.
In many cases competition has become a race to the bottom!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKv6RcXa2UI

CPW 07-30-2016 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floyd (Post 600954)
Now I must choose between no saw or another POS.
In many cases competition has become a race to the bottom!


You are right about a downward spiral. Very exasperating that it is difficult to find quality products in this day and age.


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Paul O. 07-31-2016 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floyd (Post 600954)
sounds reasonable to me!:loltu
Now I must choose between no saw or another POS.
In many cases competition has become a race to the bottom!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKv6RcXa2UI

This is a good one, I played it twice...
However, manufacturing domestically is not a cure all. As you said, "In many cases...", which implies not always. As and example, I remember how bad the US cars were when the Big Three thought they owned (edited: I did not mean owed) the market.

floyd 07-31-2016 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul O. (Post 600998)
This is a good one, I played it twice...
However, manufacturing domestically is not a cure all. As you said, "In many cases...", which implies not always. As and example, I remember how bad the US cars were when the Big Three thought they owned (edited: I did not mean owed) the market.

Not nearly as bad as some folks memories. The "energy crisis" of the early seventies popularized pacific rim cars for their size, but the reliability was horrible.
While fit and finish was falsely accepted as the measure of quality, many of us still used reliability as the primary standard.
I drove American cars all through the transition years of the seventies. The mechanical reliability was unrivaled and the fit and finish was equal to any.
I have always loved small cars and admired certain pacific rim offerings.
I bought only one new in 1973, the fit, finish and mechanical reliability was so bad that it would make the most avid car enthusiast gaze longingly toward eastern Europe for improvement.
The myth of pacific rim superiority persists even today without foundation.
Today my personal fleet of daily drivers is made up of three American made vehicles, average age is over 15 years and average mileage is over 100000 miles.
Glad to compare with any of the competition on all parameters. Same challenge would apply for any decade as far back as the inception of the allegations in the early seventies.
It has been said that "Generalities are always false". That cliche' applies no better to any other industry.
Notice that "make" has been left out of this comment since it was the generality which was being addressed by both your comment and mine.

There are select Pacific Rim cars which I would be proud to own, but the same is true for select Domestics and European models as well.

gordon2 08-01-2016 01:41 PM

Well I guess it was too good to last. After my three week Scamping with no problems, the Scamp has been parked outdoors at my house in near 100 degree weather with lots of sun and no rain. At least no rain until last night that is. A series of rainstorms went through overnight, and after the weather cleared up this morning I inspected my Scamp and found the throw rugs on the floor were soaked.

There was some rain water on the inside of the door but the edge of the rug that was closest to the door was dry so I kept looking. I did find some damp rat fur under the stove; right at the bathroom wall (layout four) but it was not much. Leaking pipes is out as a cause since I had no water in the plumbing.

So I mopped up what I could, closed up the Scamp and turned on the A/C to dry it out. A sunny two hours later I came back and found pooled water under the stove where it was just damp earlier. Checking the roof of the almost perfectly level trailer I found that the water that was running off the A/C was pooled up on the roof against the bathroom vent (on the side closest to the A/C). This is the same place I had a leak before that I thought I had sealed up. Perhaps the very hot weather caused the sealant to fail.

When I had the leak at the roof mounted bath vent before, the water seemed to come into the bathroom, through the fan and then end up on the shower floor. That was not a huge problem since the water was in the wet bath area. I had a bit of that this time also, but now the vast majority of the water appears to be penetrating at the roof vent and going under the insulation to the floor.

If I knew, when I bought the camper what I know now, I would have insisted that the roof bath vent (VanAir) not be installed. The vent is designed for a vehicle or RV with a flat roof, which the Scamp is not. The curve of the roof means that quite a bit of sealant is required and I feel sure that this install is prone to failure.

So now I am trying to decide if I should just strip out the silicone sealant and redo it with ProRV, or maybe remove the vent fan altogether and make this my first major fiberglass repair project. Itís going to be hot and wet here so Iíll wait for better weather and keep the tongue higher in the meantime so that the water on the roof flows away from the vent.

Photo is prior to the original attempt at repair.

https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/a...chmentid=90996

Mr Lynn 08-01-2016 03:19 PM

Gordon: Your Scamp is still under warranty, right? So why not have a shop do the repair and get Scamp to pay for it?

/Mr Lynn

gordon2 08-01-2016 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Lynn (Post 601213)
Gordon: Your Scamp is still under warranty, right? So why not have a shop do the repair and get Scamp to pay for it?

/Mr Lynn

Because if all it takes is a $8 tube of ProRv sealant, then that is MUCH easier for me to do than tow the trailer somewhere and deal with the hassle... and if I elect to seal it up with new fiberglass, that is not a repair, its a modification. I doubt they would cover that cost.

But making yet another warranty claim is still a possibility that I have not ruled out.

What I do plan to do is email Kent Eveland and tell him about the issue (again) and why I think this is a design that they should abandon.

Raz 08-01-2016 04:00 PM

Remove. Clean. Rebed with butyl tape. I found it at a building supply. They use butyl tape to seal roofing steel (called channel drain here). The side of the box said butyl tape. It's different than the RV store stuff. Grey and about 1/8" x 1/2". I doubled it up. Three windows, the water dish and most recently the roof fan. No leaks. I added Lexel caulk to the roof fan to keep the butyl clean. Do it yourself. You'll do a better job. Give Scamp the bill. Raz

P.S. it could be worse, my belly band leaked. :)

CPW 08-01-2016 04:34 PM

Sorry to hear about your continuing problems Gordon.


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gtaylor 08-05-2016 03:58 PM

I hope they get back to you in a timely fashion. I have tried to reach the Evelands twice about dealing with issues with my still under warrantee trailer. I called and talked to Wayne finally who advised that I would need to keep calling until I reached the one of the Evelands in person. I keep getting the voicemail which says to leave a message. Apparently there is not a lot of motivation to return calls. So I finally sent an email with the concerns a few days ago and still no response. So as the end of the warrantee period draws near I think I can see how this is going to play out. Hopefully your outcome will be better. Maybe Floyd would be willing to contact them for me? He seems to have really good luck with them.

gordon2 08-05-2016 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtaylor (Post 602121)
... I have tried to reach the Evelands twice about dealing with issues with my still under warrantee trailer. ...

Well thats not good.

Try kent@scamptrailers.com

I have not had any contact with him since April, but in the past he has been very good about communicating with me.


(BTW, this marks my 1,000th posting on this forum and I pledged to take a break from pushing my ideas and opinions for a while at the 1,000 mark.. so if anyone is looking for me, perhaps a PM would be best).

gordon2 08-21-2016 06:34 PM

3 Attachment(s)
I have decided to update this thread again because there are a few things to still muse about while I am under warranty. My 365 day warranty period will end on September 25 and at that time I will no longer muse in this thread as a new owner .

Let me mention the least of my problems first because this is one of those things that really should not be a problem at all. I donít use my shower but if I did, then I might have sooner noticed that the hose between the shower pan drain and the strainer is kinked, apparently because it was too short and/or only one clamp was used. The pump would still get most of the water out of the shower pan but the kink was close to a total blockage. Luckily itís an easy fix.

As I documented in my first post (with photos in post #5), I had a leak in the roof mounted VanAir powered vent over the bathroom. I found that there was a small gap in the sealant around the perimeter and I thought that was the cause. I added some caulk and it seemed to be OK for a while. However, I recently had the camper parked in my driveway where it was close to level but at just the right angle for water to pool next to the VanAir vent and after a long rain I found the throw rugs on the floor soaked. A little water came in the center of the vent where the fan blade is, but it appears that most of the water ran under the rat fur / insulation to a point in the cabinet where the bathroom wall and stove cabinet meet (layout four). From there it went all over my floor.

After mopping up the water and removing the soaked rugs, I ran the air conditioner to dry out the camper (because the outdoor humidity was high). But instead of it drying it out, even more water came in. A quick look on the roof confirmed that the runoff from the A/C was also pooling next to the same place at the vent. After I raised the tongue, the runoff went in a different direction and the camper started to dry out.

So I pulled the vent out completely. From appearances, Scamp did a proper job when they installed it. While there was a small gap in the sealant, there was also butyl tape which should have prevented leaking even with the sealant gap. Below photo shows the butyl on the just-removed vent. I also found a few extra screw holes, and it appears they they started to install the vent in the wrong orientation (with the drain hole not at the lowest point). I filled these screw holes even though the fresh butyl should have sealed them up anyway. I then cleaned it all up and reinstalled using butyl tape. I tightened the screws in a star pattern and waited a few hours for the butyl to settle in the 90 degree summer sun. The tightened some more, gave the butyl a little more time, and made a final tightening. A little butyl came out evenly around the vent (as it should). I trimmed the butyl and used ProFlex-RV sealant around the perimeter.

IMHO I did a perfect job of installing the VanAir vent, so you can imagine how disappointed I was when after the first rain I felt moisture in the same spot at the floor where the bathroom wall meets the stove cabinet. The trailer was pointed slightly tongue down, so I checked the storage compartment on the port side of the bench and sure enough, found it damp enough that I needed a paper towel to soak it up.

So now I get to embark on what will likely be a prolonged hunt for another leak. Perhaps the A/C gasket needs to be compressed a little more. Perhaps there is a belly bank leak. Frankly, there seems to be no likely suspect at present so this could take a lot of trial and error, with gallons of water strategically directed in varying locations while the trailer is offset, slightly from level, in different directions. I am glad that I am retired - this would be too much for many working people to handle. And I cannot imagine owning a camper that I had to store outdoors and off site where I could not keep as close an eye on its condition.

I also find that my door is not sealing well after only eleven months. A fair amount of rain water gets past the seal if there is wind with the rain. After a brief thunderstorm today, the top of the curtains on the door were wet. There was also water on the lower part of the door and water on the floor from the door to mid-way by the porta-potty door (the trailer was slanted to the port side a little). It took a towel to mop it all up. When the door is closed I can see daylight quite clearly in the area near the porch light, and little daylight at the top. Letís face it, the door is just a bad design and despite my attempts to prevent it, I might end up with the warped door from wood rot just like many older Scamps have. I always knew it was best to store the camper in a garage or carport but I am starting to believe it is almost mandatory.

Anyway, thatís the story to date. I am a bit discouraged at present but I know these issues will get worked out and I am so looking forward to some fall camping.


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