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shrimpscampi 09-02-2020 01:29 PM

Scamp or Escape?
 
I've got a Scamp 16 Deluxe on order but I've been looking at the Escape 17Bs (and love all the customization they allow). I know it ultimately comes down to a matter of personal preference, budget and timing but just curious to hear from anyone who looked at the same trailers, what you chose and why?

Thanks in advance for any responses and hope everyone is staying safe and healthy!

Lesley

Donna D. 09-02-2020 02:05 PM

I have a 16' Scamp Deluxe. Yes it's 32 years old, but you wouldn't know it by looking at it because I take care of my stuff.


NOW, I didn't buy a 17' Escape... or any bumper pull Escape, I bought the 5.0TA. The reason, is I wanted more ROOM, a better layout, better manufactured build and yes, I wanted it customized for Me.


Scamp builds a nice entry-level trailer. I know every inch of my Scamp, warts and all. I also know every inch of my Escape. FAR fewer warts. And I'm not just talking about the lack of snap caps and rivets. ZERO regrets making my purchase. Okay... there's one. My 5.0TA is huge (in comparison) when it comes to washing and waxing :wink


Good luck with your decision. :wave

shrimpscampi 09-02-2020 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donna D. (Post 791679)
I have a 16' Scamp Deluxe. Yes it's 32 years old, but you wouldn't know it by looking at it because I take care of my stuff.


NOW, I didn't buy a 17' Escape... or any bumper pull Escape, I bought the 5.0TA. The reason, is I wanted more ROOM, a better layout, better manufactured build and yes, I wanted it customized for Me.


Scamp builds a nice entry-level trailer. I know every inch of my Scamp, warts and all. I also know every inch of my Escape. FAR fewer warts. And I'm not just talking about the lack of snap caps and rivets. ZERO regrets making my purchase. Okay... there's one. My 5.0TA is huge (in comparison) when it comes to washing and waxing :wink


Good luck with your decision. :wave

Donna, thank you for this input! I'm a resourceful person and can figure stuff out but I'm not handy so it's nice to have fewer warts. Based on the pricing for the Scamp options I chose and my "sample build sheet" online for the Escape, there is only about $5K differential in pricing. That's what has got me thinking. You can never say never but I'm hoping not to have to upgrade/switch to another trailer so I'm trying to do all my due diligence now. I think I've seen some pictures of the interior of your 5.0TA - I love the ability to pick fabric, formica, flooring. I've heard a "rumor" that Scamp may be switching to blinds instead of the dated curtains but they still use the same old flooring and counter/table surfaces.

CPW 09-02-2020 02:43 PM

I purchased a Scamp 19 Deluxe in 2012. I sold it three years later and like Donna, purchased a 5.0TA. And like Donna, I discovered many warts in the Scamp and far fewer in the Escape. As far as customization, we fold rather than hang our clothes. When I asked Scamp if they would install a couple of shelves in the wardrobe closet, I was told “you can do that after taking delivery.” And when I took delivery of the Escape, the trailer’s electric brakes actually worked because Escape, unlike Scamp, actually hooked them up. And the vent fan in my Escape has never leaked because Escape actually used butyl tape when it was installed. Scamp is an OK trailer. The day I picked it up was the second happiest day in my RVing life, but the day I sold it was my happiest. And yes, Escape customized several items for me, and I can say of all the trailers I have owned, the Escape has been the best. I would purchase another one, but I would not purchase another one of any of my previous trailers. I’m not saying the Scamp was bad. But I will say I more frustration than enjoyment out of mine.

Donna D. 09-02-2020 02:46 PM

Everything comes at a price Lesley. Yes, I have custom upholstery and I choose a different Formica (and sink!). Options cost. I bought the upholstery (had it shipped from Hawaii!!!), paid to have the cushions made and paid extra for my choice in Formica. At the time, there was ONLY one choice for each as a default. Now that's six or seven! Choosing from those selections may save you $$$.


Good for you doing your due diligence. I'm sure you'll make the best decision that will work best for you. :thumb

floyd 09-02-2020 08:19 PM

I've seen them all and worked on nearly all of them and so far I have not seen a better build with fewer "warts" than my Scamp13D.
Unless it gets wrecked I'll never need to purchase another one.


All fiberglass trailers are great and each is a perfect fit for someone.

CPW 09-03-2020 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floyd (Post 791724)
I've seen them all and worked on nearly all of them and so far I have not seen a better build with fewer "warts" than my Scamp13D.
Unless it gets wrecked I'll never need to purchase another one.


All fiberglass trailers are great and each is a perfect fit for someone.

That is an interesting take because I did not find my Scamp to come anywhere close to what I would define as well built. I am, of course, happy for you that you are so pleased with it. In the manufacture of any product, there are always a few that are lemons. I believe the same could be said that there are also a few manufactured that would be the exact opposite of lemons. I’m guessing you were fortunate to get one of those because I surely wasn’t; mine was a wart ingested lemon. But I agree with your last statement, the part that each is a perfect fit for someone.

And while statistics can be twisted in many cases to make a point, there are two statistics I find difficult to overlook:
1. I read far more posts where owners are complaining about quality problems with their Scamps than people complaining about Escapes. That’s not to say that these problems cannot be corrected but I for one kind of expect a product coming off the assembly line should not be plagued with a myriad of “issues,” or as I came to realize, being brand new, I felt should not be Shoddily Constructed And Maintenance Plagued.
2. And the more telling statistic is that I am aware of many, many Scamp owners who have done as I did: sold their Scamp and purchased an Escape. On the other hand, I have only heard of (less than) a handful who did the reverse.

The Lil Snoozy is a well constructed and aerodynamic trailer. But I wouldn’t have one because they do not have propane appliances and I do not care for cassette toilets. Similar arguments can be made for or against any trailer. The Scamp was my first FG trailer and I admittedly was uneducated. But I was not impressed that structural components were held in place by bolts penetrating the fiberglass shell as well as other “design” features. And I surely wasn’t impressed when both my roof vents leaked and two Scamp employees told me that they always utilized butyl tape under the flange of the fan body. That after I had repaired both and saw firsthand there was no sealant under the flanges of either. It took me ten hours of labor to correct what five minutes and half a dollar in materials at the factory would have prevented......just another wary.

Again, I am glad when someone finds the fiberglass “perfect fit” trailer of their dreams. Most of the time their “dreams” are based on opinion, of which there are many and they vary highly. However, I seriously doubt that very many are of the opinion that Scamp is the very best fiberglass trailer available. I have no doubts that my opinion in this case results from far too many “warts.” But there will always be someone who is willing “to run interference” for manufacturers who aren’t always “up to snuff.”

Glenn Baglo 09-03-2020 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPW (Post 791746)
The Lil Snoozy is a well constructed and aerodynamic trailer.


I don't believe it is aerodynamic. That would require a tapered rear end, not a slab.

Jon in AZ 09-03-2020 11:11 AM

2 Attachment(s)
That is correct. The teardrop shape is actually better for aerodynamics.

I'm going to guess one of the most aerodynamic full-height travel trailers on the road is the Bowlus Road Chief. It has both a rounded front and tapered rear.
Attachment 137224

The most aerodynamic all-molded molded trailer might well be the Bonair Oxygen.
Attachment 137225

steve dunham 09-03-2020 11:20 AM

A lot depends on how much you are willing to spend on a non essential luxury .

thrifty bill 09-03-2020 11:28 AM

Rivets or no rivets.

Factory customization or no customization.

Five year old design or 40 year old design.

Scamp pull behind maxes out at 16 feet. Escape starts at 17 feet.

Some very useful Escape factory options like matching front storage box and surface mounted cord. Not available from Scamp.

For people wanting minimum weight, a basic Scamp WILL weigh a lot less.


Scamp without options will also cost quite a bit less.

A standard Scamp will have a fiberglass interior, which I favor over a wood interior.

The Escape 5.0 TA has no competition IMHO, if you want to go that way.


You decide.


Escape has invested a lot of money updating their shell design, multiple times depending on the trailer size. They now use a standard RV door, better for them, better for owners.


To paraphrase Jerry Maguire: "you had me at no rivets".


+1 million, Lil Snoozy "looks" aerodynamic, it's not. If they flipped the design, it would be aerodynamic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyrP-pwDayE

Jon in AZ 09-03-2020 11:34 AM

The difference between a fully optioned deluxe Scamp and a similarly optioned Escape 17B is not all that great, and I think I'd be inclined toward the Escape in that comparison.

But I'm not likely to be buying either anytime soon. Getting ready to send two kids off to college, so it will be a long time before we have any discretionary funds!

Darral T. 09-03-2020 12:15 PM

DIFFERENT TAKE....
 
I own a Scamp and would buy an Escape the next time.

This would be a VERY interesting poll.... but it doesnt exist I'm sure:
How many Scamp owners have switched over to an Escape?
How many ESCAPE owners have switched over to a SCAMP!??

Think about it...

steve dunham 09-03-2020 12:49 PM

We’ve owned a 1999 Scamp 16 ft STD , a 2013,17 ft Casita SD and an 2018 Escape 21C
All served us well . The only reason we went from our Casita 17 to an Escape 21 was we wanted more room and Scamp and Casita do not offer a bumper pull trailer that large
If the largest trailer Escape offered was a 17 ft we would have stayed with our Casita or gone up to a Bigfoot
I doubt there are many that go from a 17 ft Casita to a 17 ft Escape , the 19 or 21 ft is a different story
Escape does offer more options , so again how much are you willing to spend on a non essential item
The cost of the options on our Escape equaled the original purchase price of our Casita — Luxury / options don’t come cheap

floyd 09-03-2020 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPW (Post 791746)
That is an interesting take because I did not find my Scamp to come anywhere close to what I would define as well built. I am, of course, happy for you that you are so pleased with it. In the manufacture of any product, there are always a few that are lemons. I believe the same could be said that there are also a few manufactured that would be the exact opposite of lemons. I’m guessing you were fortunate to get one of those because I surely wasn’t; mine was a wart ingested lemon. But I agree with your last statement, the part that each is a perfect fit for someone.

And while statistics can be twisted in many cases to make a point, there are two statistics I find difficult to overlook:
1. I read far more posts where owners are complaining about quality problems with their Scamps than people complaining about Escapes. That’s not to say that these problems cannot be corrected but I for one kind of expect a product coming off the assembly line should not be plagued with a myriad of “issues,” or as I came to realize, being brand new, I felt should not be Shoddily Constructed And Maintenance Plagued.
2. And the more telling statistic is that I am aware of many, many Scamp owners who have done as I did: sold their Scamp and purchased an Escape. On the other hand, I have only heard of (less than) a handful who did the reverse.

The Lil Snoozy is a well constructed and aerodynamic trailer. But I wouldn’t have one because they do not have propane appliances and I do not care for cassette toilets. Similar arguments can be made for or against any trailer. The Scamp was my first FG trailer and I admittedly was uneducated. But I was not impressed that structural components were held in place by bolts penetrating the fiberglass shell as well as other “design” features. And I surely wasn’t impressed when both my roof vents leaked and two Scamp employees told me that they always utilized butyl tape under the flange of the fan body. That after I had repaired both and saw firsthand there was no sealant under the flanges of either. It took me ten hours of labor to correct what five minutes and half a dollar in materials at the factory would have prevented......just another wary.

Again, I am glad when someone finds the fiberglass “perfect fit” trailer of their dreams. Most of the time their “dreams” are based on opinion, of which there are many and they vary highly. However, I seriously doubt that very many are of the opinion that Scamp is the very best fiberglass trailer available. I have no doubts that my opinion in this case results from far too many “warts.” But there will always be someone who is willing “to run interference” for manufacturers who aren’t always “up to snuff.”

Don't forget the Scamp Deluxe trailers still in used and over 30years old in very nice condition. I expect no less, and mine is only half way there.
i would not make a straight trade for your gorgeous trailer today, and it is clear the you wouldn't trade me either.
Escape has managed to correct such things as defective frames, DOT wiring problems and other issues...

The trend for years has been to "Upsize" not necessarily "Upgrade".



As you say...
"In the manufacture of any product, there are always a few that are lemons. I believe the same could be said that there are also a few manufactured that would be the exact opposite of lemons. I’m guessing you were fortunate to get one of those."


I am truly glad that you are happy with your Escape, I hope you are still happy a decade from now (like me). I expect it will be so.

rdickens 09-03-2020 01:15 PM

Lesley,

Out of curiosity, which version Deluxe do you have on order?
What delivery date and which salesman?

Both are probably fine trailers.

I thought that I wanted and Escape 17B and my sister actually has one.
I think both of us are reasonably happy with our choices.


We actually got a 2017 Scamp Deluxe Layout A with a no-charge swap of front sofa/bunks instead of the usual front dinette. I think that you've been around the forum long enough that you have probably seen pix of our trailer.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...FU?usp=sharing

If you are OK with the smaller side bathroom, I would probably recommend our configuration. Much of the decision may be personal preference?

Our reasons for choosing:

1) We lucked into a 60 day delivery date.
2) Our Deluxe was several hundred dollars cheaper than an E17B.
3) It weighs several hundred pounds less than the E17B. (We have the smaller six cylinder 2.7L Ecoboost in our F-150 and get ~20mpg towing).
4) For us, the Scamp factory is hundreds of miles closer than Chiliwack (for purchase, warranty work. repairs/updates).
5) The Scamp may be a little more aerodynamic (it's a little more rounded).
6) We have a closet.
7) We have lots of storage.
8) We now have a Lagun Table for indoor dining on the sofa (new table matches oak interior - Google Drive pix above have my old "template table").
9) We don't usually need/use a top-mounted AC (instead, we use a Frigidaire 5000 BTU in back window when we really need AC. My sister and B.I.L. say that their top-mounted AC is EXTREMELY NOISY!)
10) Our center aisle might be a bit wider? (not totally sure on that ...)
11) Scamp did customize our trailer (front sofa, no sink in bathroom, privacy glass over sink instead of curtain, no stinky/slinky on the front, etc.)
12) The Deluxe trailers don't have rivets; they have wood screws under the snap caps.
13) My brother-in-law says that our sofa is more comfortable than sitting "bolt upright" in a side/front dinette.
14) We didn't need/want a "standard furnace"; we prefer an additional storage cabinet and using a small ceramic space heater.
15) Our build quality seems good/fine. (I thought perhaps "better the devil you know than the devil you don't?)
16) Our door opens all the way. My sister's newer E17B opens 90 degrees.

For a few reasons, I much prefer our layout A over the Deluxe Layout B:
1) We have the full bed width (no overhang of kitchen cabinetry over bed - watch promo video carefully.)
2) There is enough room between our sink and stove for a coffee pot.
3) We have a "toe kick" area under the fridge, cabinets, and closet where we can put shoes just out of the main aisle.
4) The front window gives the visual impression of a larger (17+) foot trailer.
5) Our front gravel shield provides a location for a temporary solar panel.
6) If we want/need, we can sleep a couple of grandkids in the front bunks.

At Green Eggs and Ham (a couple of years ago), an Escape 19 owner came across the street, looked at our trailer and said "You sure have a lot of storage in here!"

On the plus side for the E17B:
1) The side bathroom is a little larger (ours is "cozy" ... but we don't spend much time in there ... mostly for night use.)
2) The E17B front dinette is a a few inches wider than a normal Layout A front dinette.
3) I like the front storage box and the outside hatch into storage.

I'm sure there must be other E17B advantages that I'm sure others will point out.

Given the choice, my wife says that she would not now trade our trailer for an E17B.

As previously stated, both are fine trailers. It will likely depend on YOUR own preferences and "mission profile".

Wayne Pitlick is/was our Scamp salesman and is familiar with our configuration (and any other "customizations" that I may have forgotten).

Best of luck to you on your decsion(s)!

Ray

stevebaz 09-03-2020 02:02 PM

whats the price difference on the 2?

I don't think you can or should compare the 2 against each other, they are in 2 very different economic class structures. you are teetering on the have and have nots.

rdickens 09-03-2020 02:23 PM

In late 2016 (or early 2017) the list price of a Scamp 16 Deluxe was $19.995.

I really don't remember what the E17B was ... I just remember that it was going to be several thousand dollars more (even considering a fairly favorable exchange rate.)

Someone else may know/remember what the list price of an 2017 Escape 17B would have been?


Ray

PS -

Another factor was the $500 deposit (compared to more $$$ for the E17B ).

At my request, Scamp also gave me the door and hinges/knob for the microwave cabinet but did not mount it and put the hinge screw holes in my wood.

Scamp would have added a removable power cord but, I had already done that on my Scamp13 (big bed) and just decided that I would do it myself again. (Doing that "mod" makes the "cord cabinet" available for additional storage of dry goods (paper plates, cups, extra coffee, wiener roasting sticks, etc. Since I had to carry a water hose separately, it was no big deal to throw the detachable power cord into the same tub.)

Glenn Baglo 09-03-2020 02:45 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's my 2008 Escape 17B, for what it's worth. Keep in mind CAD.

shrimpscampi 09-03-2020 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdickens (Post 791824)
Lesley,

Out of curiosity, which version Deluxe do you have on order?
What delivery date and which salesman?



Ray

Ray, good food for thought. For the Scamp 16D, I was really torn between the 2 layouts but kept gravitating toward the Side Dinette, Front Bath. Wayne is my sales person and he has been great to work with.

In terms of cost, the Scamp is coming out to approx $27,000 and the Escape is approx $31,000.

Some of my thoughts are:

Scamp
- As you say, I'm not crazy about the counter overhanging the back dinette/bed area (although Scamp is now offering a glass top stove which makes it a bit better IMO)
- New builds will have the flat door - have never seen it, don't know how it will look or work.
- Not in love with the Scamp fabric choices or the flooring and counter top material they use.
- A bit concerned about storage as there is no option for a box on the hitch or outside storage hatch.
- Dumping in general is not attractive to me and Scamps have separate "lines" so you have to dump 2x instead of using one line for both gray and black.
- Like the rounded shape

Escape
- The 17B layout is like the Scamp Deluxe Side Bath option, which was not as appealing to me as the side dinette
- BUT I could order the front dinette as a bed (solo camper) and the back dinette as a U shape with lagun table so there is no "work" to do to have set up I like.
- I like the customization options for fabric, flooring, counter top.

I know there is no such thing as a "maintenance free" trailer but I'm trying to avoid starting out behind the eight ball so to speak.

I live in NJ so neither headquarters are close to me - although Backus is closer (but certainly not a quick trip!). AC is a must for me, it gets really hot and humid in the northeast in the summer and while I'm fine with heat in general, I hate to sleep in the heat. Any trailer I order will have the roof mounted AC (as that seems the easiest thing to do).

I have no experience with either trailer but as has been noted in this thread, most people go from Scamps to Escape and not the other way around. I'm certainly not using my couch change to buy a trailer but at only $4K difference in price, I'm wondering if the Escape would be a better value.

I should also say I have a 2020 Honda Passport AWD that will work with either trailer from what I've researched.

floyd 09-03-2020 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrifty bill (Post 791805)
Rivets or no rivets.

Factory customization or no customization.

Five year old design or 40 year old design.

Scamp pull behind maxes out at 16 feet. Escape starts at 17 feet.

Some very useful Escape factory options like matching front storage box and surface mounted cord. Not available from Scamp.

For people wanting minimum weight, a basic Scamp WILL weigh a lot less.


Scamp without options will also cost quite a bit less.

A standard Scamp will have a fiberglass interior, which I favor over a wood interior.

The Escape 5.0 TA has no competition IMHO, if you want to go that way.


You decide.


Escape has invested a lot of money updating their shell design, multiple times depending on the trailer size. They now use a standard RV door, better for them, better for owners.


To paraphrase Jerry Maguire: "you had me at no rivets".


+1 million, Lil Snoozy "looks" aerodynamic, it's not. If they flipped the design, it would be aerodynamic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyrP-pwDayE


Dating the Design on the Escape? Think Trillium, also Escape has been building for 19 years with constant change and improvements.


Scamp 40YO Design about equally true, considering 40 years of constant improvement.



Customization? I hear that Escape does offer quite a bit.
Scamp Custom Deluxe? I got mine with lots of Custom mods.


Still, sorry you got "had" with no rivets.


You do make a valid point about buying what you want, but...
If I thought the Escape was somehow "better"... I'd be towing one!


There are plenty of satisfied customers for both trailers,
none more satisfied than I with my Scamp13D.
btw It is not assembled with rivets.


Ray said above that Scamp does offer surface mounted cord.

stevebaz 09-03-2020 03:23 PM

well its really your choice your comparing the top of the line Scamp to the lowest level escape and have a hard time making a decision. don't look at the escape 19 or 21 or you will go broke that decision is easy. not allot of deluxe Scamps running around i suggest you contact your salesman and get a visitors list and go look at them. I suggest you look at the Scamp first then the escape. for that much money a plane flight or 2 is warranted.

CPW 09-03-2020 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floyd (Post 791820)
Don't forget the Scamp Deluxe trailers still in used and over 30years old in very nice condition. I expect no less, and mine is only half way there.
i would not make a straight trade for your gorgeous trailer today, and it is clear the you wouldn't trade me either.
Escape has managed to correct such things as defective frames, DOT wiring problems and other issues...

The trend for years has been to "Upsize" not necessarily "Upgrade".



As you say...
"In the manufacture of any product, there are always a few that are lemons. I believe the same could be said that there are also a few manufactured that would be the exact opposite of lemons. I’m guessing you were fortunate to get one of those."


I am truly glad that you are happy with your Escape, I hope you are still happy a decade from now (like me). I expect it will be so.

There you go making assumptions again Floyd. I’m in my early 70s. A decade from now I may have attended the “big propane/natural gas campfire” and may be “camping” in the Deluxe Urn. Don’t have to service the wheel bearing on that model, or wax the gelcoat! :D

Glenn Baglo 09-03-2020 03:32 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by floyd (Post 791841)
Dating the Design on the Escape? Think Trillium.


Nope. Think Surfside.

floyd 09-03-2020 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darral T. (Post 791810)
I own a Scamp and would buy an Escape the next time.

This would be a VERY interesting poll.... but it doesnt exist I'm sure:
How many Scamp owners have switched over to an Escape?
How many ESCAPE owners have switched over to a SCAMP!??

Think about it...

Think about it... 90% of going to a larger trailer is twofootitis.
If someone can't figure out what he really wants, I suggest a couple of used trailers until it can be done.
I assume you bought a bigger truck?

If so, your Scamp is well taken care of and nicely appointed and would draw good money! Tow what you like... buy an Escape!


When you decide to sell, give me a call, I can hook you up with a buyer, probably in a couple of days.

steve dunham 09-03-2020 04:06 PM

In my honest opinion Escape is nowhere as good as many claim and Scamp is nowhere as bad
We like our Escape but it is not even close to perfect by any stretch of the imagination
We’ve owned 3 different FG trailer and everyone has had flaws and quality issues that required constant vigilance
The notion that because I own brand X , it has to be the best and everything else is a POS has never set well with me.

floyd 09-03-2020 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPW (Post 791843)
There you go making assumptions again Floyd. I’m in my early 70s. A decade from now I may have attended the “big propane/natural gas campfire” and may be “camping” in the Deluxe Urn. Don’t have to service the wheel bearing on that model, or wax the gelcoat! :D

Never know, but I hope my assumption is right!

floyd 09-03-2020 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve dunham (Post 791858)
In my honest opinion Escape is nowhere as good as many claim and Scamp is nowhere as bad
We like our Escape but it is not even close to perfect by any stretch of the imagination
We’ve owned 3 different FG trailer and everyone has had flaws and quality issues that required constant vigilance
The notion that because I own brand X , it has to be the best and everything else is a POS has never set well with me.

Exactly! and this forum is for all fiberglass trailer enthusiasts.

rdickens 09-03-2020 04:48 PM

Leslie,

Everyone has different needs and wants.
I know that our configuration would not suite everyone but, it works for us.
You will have to decide what YOU will like! :)

I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND actually looking inside both candidate trailers .... either by attending some rallies or calling Scamp and/or Escape for a list of owners near you that might be willing to show you their trailers. Even then, trailer manufacturers change things over time .... so, what you preview may not be what you eventually get?

When pilots talk about a "mission profile", it means that they are taking into consideration needed payload, mountainous terrain, weather, etc. In other words, how do you plan to use your trailer?

We wanted a 54" bed, a bathroom, a closet, and the at least the option of sleeping a couple of grandkids, etc.

My sister didn't like the fabric that Escape was offering and so she chose her own and sent it up to Escape. They custom made her cushions. I imagine that Scamp would do the same? Scamp cushion foam is too hard for my wife and I to sleep comfortably. Within six weeks of getting our brand new Scamp 16 Deluxe, I traded the original foam for a 3-layer foam cushion interior that sleeps much better. Cushions can be fairly easily changed if you need/want to.

A friend of mine has a Deluxe Layout B and just recently had Scamp install a 9000 BTU Coleman/Airxcel and seems happy with it. 13,000 to 15,000 BTUs is way overkill for our little trailers. My sister and brother-in-law are VERY DISAPPOINTED in the noise level of their Penguin II. We usually go north in the summer and south in the winter. I figure we need AC about 5% of our trips. Your situation may be different ....

Dumping is not my cup of tea either and the Thedford Casette Toilet is one of the things that made me look carefully at the Lil Snoozy. I also thought that the Lil Snoozy might be less drag and easier for our Ford Escape to tow but, after talking with many Lil Snoozy owners, I found out that the big flat area on the back pulled enough vacuum that it wasn't any/much easier to tow than a Scamp, Escape, Casita, etc. Thank goodness we avoided that fiasco ... too many folks lost their deposit (thousands of dollars) when Lil Snoozy folded. $500 to Scamp was a smaller risk and with a company that had been in business for many years!

If you have to dump, two lines isn't necessarily a bad thing .... the gray water washes out the hose after the black water dumping.

Before ordering our Scamp 16 Deluxe, I looked at Snoozy, Casita, Parkliner, Escape, Eggcamper, etc. Every trailer has/had advantages and disadvantages. I don't think there is any such thing as a "perfect trailer" for everyone!

We started our FGRV journey with a Honda CRV (tow rating 1500 lbs) towing a minimalist Scamp 13 Std (big bed). We really liked our friend's Escape 19 but thought that might be too big a leap from our little Scamp13? Maybe in another few years?

For towing, I prefer turbocharged engines (like the Ford Ecoboost) or diesel engines (like my son's Dodge Ram) due to their high torque at low RPM.

Don't let my choices/opinions (or anybody else's) sway you too much. It is going to be YOUR TRAILER. That said, you did ask for our input and I gave you my rationale ... probably worth about what you paid for it! ;)

Again, best of luck on your decision(s)

Ray

Radar1 09-04-2020 08:20 AM

We love our 16' Scamp that we've owned for 10 years. The only upgrades we desire would be a bigger bed (ours is the 45" wide version) and a larger black holding tank.
The Escape 17B would provide both of those upgrades and I was prepared to order one, except my wife found out about the queen sized bed available in the Escape 19, so that's what we are picking up next month.
I have to admit that Ray's deluxe 16 is a beautiful camper and he has the larger bed that is available in the 16' (54" I believe).
I like the large storage box in the front of the Escapes, holds stuff that would otherwise take up room in the camper or tow vehicle.
I may just keep both campers, like Donna Dee! I know the 19 will be a bit harder to park in our son's driveway, the 16' Scamp is a tight fit as it is.

RitaW 09-09-2020 11:19 AM

We bought a new Scamp 13 with bath in 2011. Loved it. We live in Alaska and took it on one round trip on the Ak Highway every year, spending 6 or 7 weeks in the spring and fall in the lower 48 hiking and biking. When Covid hit our truck and trailer were stranded in Phoenix then Oregon and Canadian border closure made it not possible to drive home as usual. It’s complicated. Our son-in-law sold it for us and we thought we would order a new Scamp 16 and by the time it was built the borders would be open. But when we found out the 16 had only 13 inch wheels, like the 13 foot, it was a deal breaker. My husband had gone to a lot of effort to raise the clearance with new high axel and 14 inch tires and didn’t want to do that again. So, we have ordered an Escape 17B. The critical difference for us was the higher clearance with the Escapes 15 inch wheels because we like to boondock. We don’t have it yet but we couldn’t pick it up until the borders are open for recreational travel anyway.
Just our opinion based on experience with potholes and low clearance. Good luck.

thrifty bill 09-09-2020 11:27 AM

You can actually have a commercial shipper deliver it for you. Meet them at the AK border. Also it is my understanding that the Canadian border is open for straight through travel from and to AK. No site seeing.

Fran L 09-09-2020 11:48 AM

I ditto the remarks of the folks who went from Scamp to Escape. We did too. Had a Scamp 16,' then a Scamp Deluxe 19' and now an Escape 5.0 classic single axle. All were purchased used. No regrets on moving over to Escape. Cant remember ever reading a post about anyone going from Escape to Scamp....

northwinds13 09-09-2020 12:13 PM

Scamp vs Escape
 
i bought a used 2001 Scamp 16 layout 6 for 9k instead of a new Escape 17. I have no regrets and have taken my trailer to three coasts over the past three years.

My trailer was nowhere near to perfect. I’ve had lots of stuff break (electrical, plumbing, etc.), but with the help of friends and youtube, I’ve managed to keep everything going. Right now, I’m camped in the rain with my dog after a soggy six mike hike. I can’t imagine a cozier place than my Scamp for my afternoon nap.

If I ever get another fiberglass trailer, it will be for a bigger bed. But every year I hang onto the Scamp, I’m saving money.

Siepierski 09-09-2020 12:57 PM

I lived in my 2017 17 b for a year full time.
Works great for one person and small dog
If there are two of you you will be constantly climbing over each other in the double bed

I got the escape because:
liked the customization options

got ultraleather upholstery from sailrite- except...they recommend you buy way too much fabric, and at 60 bucks a yard...ouch!

didn't get air conditioning and didn't miss it
(get a 12v fan from auto parts store.

It's a single axle trailer and is overloaded easily (went through two sets of tires- uneven wear from over loading the axle

Get a weight distribution hitch - sway and porposing are a problem since it is always close to. or exceeding maximum load.

Consider a double axle escape 19 (or scamp or casita) if your tow vehicle can handle the weight. load on each axle is much less than on single axle 17b (or single axle anything)

Consider lithium batteries if you can afford them. makes your electrical system much more dependable.

Escape has a non porous vinyl insulating headliner instead of carpet. This acts a vapor barrier and is easier to keep clean and doesn't soak up water and get moldy like carpet does.

Don't plan on crossing the border into Canada if you buy the escape. Have them deliver it to you in Washington. Canadian customs was absolute hell even before corona. (read my 12/17 Customs purgatory post on the escape trailer forum)

I was very happy with the quality of the cabinets in my escape. doors and face frames were solid oak.
There was no oven, and the stove did not have ignighters (used cigarette lighter
I got the biggest fridge and it was great.

dining area is VERY tight if you order the "gaucho bunk" - I took the bunk out for more room.
If you get solar have them install an external SAE solar panel Jack I. addition to the panel on the roof., Or don't get solar just a renogy solar suitcase- the batteries are right on the back bumper.
I got all the insulation. they had, and was comfortable camping in any weather. If temperatures went below 0 Fahrenheit I had some problems with condensation around the perimeter of the bed. ended up putting layers of reflectix around the perimeter of the mattress.

thrifty bill 09-09-2020 01:57 PM

No double axle Scamp or Casita. Double axle on the Escape 19!is overkill but I like it!

Gypz 09-09-2020 02:42 PM

Escape
 
We have had both and the Escape wins 👍

steve dunham 09-09-2020 03:41 PM

I am a function over form type of guy . It seems on these type of discussions the line between the two gets blurred
IE ; Casita has fiberglass cabinets, Escape has wood , one may like the appearance / styling of one over the other but both are perfectly functional
Casita has 2 cushion upholstery color choices , Escape has several but both are perfectly functional

I don’t understand when people bad mouth trailer X because they don’t like the color of the stripe running down the sides of the trailer .
What looks good to me may look like SH_T to you

If I was looking for a new trailer I would want to know about layout , build quality , reliability, warranty , standard features etc etc . I couldn’t care less if the color of the cabinet knobs were brass or chrome , as long as they work I would be happy.
A trailer manufacturer who offers tons of options and executes them all poorly doesn’t impress me .

mm2670 09-09-2020 05:05 PM

My humble opinion....
 
First off, I believe that fb molded design is inherently better/more leak proof than stick/tin and has better resale. Perfect? No. Much better? Yes. Had stick/tin; constantly stressed about rot.

However, in the world there are 7' garage doors and there are 8' + garage door.s I really really really (enough?) don't want to ever deal with a storage lot again; ever; ever. We looked at Scamp vs Escape and have read various pros and cons, but nothing that is overwhelming; Escape might have an edge in initial quality. The thing that kicked Escape out is the exterior height is always above 8' and the interior height is 5' 10". The Scamp 16 w/o A/C (knew someone would ask that...) is like 7' 10" exterior and 6'2" interior. I suppose the difference is insulation and that's valid, but to us? Nope; putting it in our garage trumps all if the quality is anywhere on par.

So, Scamp vs Escape? Whatever twirls your bolts.......

MyronL 09-09-2020 07:32 PM

I never met a rivet in a trailer I liked.

floyd 09-09-2020 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fran L (Post 792637)
I ditto the remarks of the folks who went from Scamp to Escape. We did too. Had a Scamp 16,' then a Scamp Deluxe 19' and now an Escape 5.0 classic single axle. All were purchased used. No regrets on moving over to Escape. Cant remember ever reading a post about anyone going from Escape to Scamp....

Few people go smaller...., ever heard of a Plecostomus?

Most of the few Scamp owners who have made the transition to Escape, have done so for the increase in size.
The only reason I have not gone from an Escape to a Scamp is that I bought the Scamp first, obviating the need.

CPW 09-10-2020 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floyd (Post 792701)
Few people go smaller...., ever heard of a Plecostomus?

Most of the few Scamp owners who have made the transition to Escape, have done so for the increase in size.

Sorry, but you are putting thoughts in other people’s minds. There is no way you can possibly know the reason why so many more people have gone from Scamp to Escape.

The only reason I have not gone from an Escape to a Scamp is that I bought the Scamp first, obviating the need.

Cute! As you well know, from many prior discussions with me I went from Scamp to Escape because I personally found my Scamp to be the biggest POS travel trailer I ever owned, definitely obviating the need for my own sanity, peace of mind, and continuation of the RV enjoyment before I made the mistake of thinking that Scamp would be perfect for me. I’m not afraid to admit I personally made a mistake. As I stated earlier, maybe I got a lemon, but it wasn’t just the trailer; it was also the lies and other BS I was subjected to by Eveland’s. I get it. Some people love their Scamps. As you said in a previous post, there is a “perfect” trailer for everyone. Your Scamp is the perfect trailer for you. My Scamp was a nightmare for me. While I will not attribute motivations for the actions of others, I am more inclined to think that people transitioning to Escape (or any other brand) from Scamp could result from (as well as a possible desire for increased size) dissatisfaction with Scamp or a perception that the other brand will better fit their needs, or in other words, is a more perfect trailer for them. From the tone of your post, I surely hope the overwhelming numbers involved in the Scamp to Escape migration in not distressing you. However, and I am sure you are aware that marketing is based on the fact that different people have different preferences. If that were not the case, there would only be Coke; Pepsi would not exist.

steve dunham 09-10-2020 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPW (Post 792719)
Cute! As you well know, from many prior discussions with me I went from Scamp to Escape because I personally found my Scamp to be the biggest POS travel trailer I ever owned, definitely obviating the need for my own sanity, peace of mind, and continuation of the RV enjoyment before I made the mistake of thinking that Scamp would be perfect for me. I’m not afraid to admit I personally made a mistake. As I stated earlier, maybe I got a lemon, but it wasn’t just the trailer; it was also the lies and other BS I was subjected to by Eveland’s. I get it. Some people love their Scamps. As you said in a previous post, there is a “perfect” trailer for everyone. Your Scamp is the perfect trailer for you. My Scamp was a nightmare for me. While I will not attribute motivations for the actions of others, I am more inclined to think that people transitioning to Escape (or any other brand) from Scamp could result from (as well as a possible desire for increased size) dissatisfaction with Scamp or a perception that the other brand will better fit their needs, or in other words, is a more perfect trailer for them. From the tone of your post, I surely hope the overwhelming numbers involved in the Scamp to Escape migration in not distressing you. However, and I am sure you are aware that marketing is based on the fact that different people have different preferences. If that were not the case, there would only be Coke; Pepsi would not exist.

The ONLY REASON we went from our 17 ft Casita to a 21 ft Escape was “SIZE”
It wasn’t because of a better floor plan or better build quality or because of Escapes so called fabulous option package or styling or interior colors , or to go from sliding windows that didn’t leak to awning windows that do ,or the fake wood cabinets, or price , or prestige or any other intangible , imaginary, quality / asset , it was strictly SIZE !!
We wanted a bigger bumper pull trailer which Escape offered and Scamp and Casita did not . If Casita would have offered a larger trailer , we would be towing a Casita today , and if Casita does come out with a larger trailer in the future , we will be the first in line , with our money in hand

Floyd hit the nail on the head —“SIZE MATTERS” !

MyronL 09-10-2020 07:39 AM

Since I am 6 ft 7 inches tall if size mattered to me I wouldn't buy any fiberglass trailer. The thing I loved the most about my 16 ft Scamp was removing and sealing over about 40 rivets. That was fun.

Perryb67 09-10-2020 07:48 AM

We owned a 2001 Scamp 16' side bath, 2007 Casita 17' Spirit, and now a 2018 Escape 5.0.

I really dislike the caps on the outside of Scamps and Casitas.

Shredded a tire on our Scamp and destroyed that plastic (?) wheelwell. The wheelwells on the Casita and Scamp are fiberglass and will survive the blowout.

The door on the Scamp has a tendency to leak and can droop. Casita, and now Escape, use standard flat doors. Our Scamp door did not fit flush to the body, so I had to play gasket games to close the gap.

The bi-fold screen on our Scamp was a PITA.

The Casita felt like it's design was lightyears ahead of our Scamp. The bed was 6" wider (?) so we no longer had to sleep head to toe. I liked the fiberglass cabinets, but my wife likes the wood in our Escape.

We had 13" tires on the Scamp and 14" tires on the Casita, giving more clearance and never had the rear end hit the ground in a forest service dip, like happened a couple of times with the Scamp.

We felt the design and quality was much, much better with the Casita over the Scamp. I'd put the quality of the Casita at a par with our Escape.

Did I mention I really dislike the rivet/screw caps on the Scamp and Casita? There are none on Escapes.

In the end though, if you're happy, and it gets you camping, you're in the right camper.

Enjoy,

Perry

Glenn Baglo 09-10-2020 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perryb67 (Post 792735)
Shredded a tire on our Scamp and destroyed that plastic (?) wheelwell. The wheelwells on the Casita and Scamp are fiberglass and will survive the blowout.


I don't understand this paragraph. It seems to contradict itself.

CPW 09-10-2020 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve dunham (Post 792724)
The ONLY REASON we went from our 17 ft Casita to a 21 ft Escape was “SIZE”
It wasn’t because of a better floor plan or better build quality or because of Escapes so called fabulous option package or styling or interior colors , or to go from sliding windows that didn’t leak to awning windows that do ,or the fake wood cabinets, or price , or prestige or any other intangible , imaginary, quality / asset , it was strictly SIZE !!
We wanted a bigger bumper pull trailer which Escape offered and Scamp and Casita did not . If Casita would have offered a larger trailer , we would be towing a Casita today , and if Casita does come out with a larger trailer in the future , we will be the first in line , with our money in hand

Floyd hit the nail on the head —“SIZE MATTERS” !

Steve, you totally missed my point. If size matters, many people would not be in 13 foot trailers. Floyd May have hit the nail on the head for some, but not everyone goes from Scamp to Escape or from Casita to Oliver for size alone. I went from a Scamp 19 to and Escape 5.0TA because my Scamp was a POS, and I repeat, a total POS. You should understand what I am saying because many of your posts including this one (implying that you will go back to Casita if they were to come out with a larger trailer). My Escape is not the POS that my Scamp was. I could have gone to a Casita, but I wanted a connection in the truck bed, i.e., a 5th wheel type connection. Honestly, if I were single I like the layout of the Scamp 16 front bathroom better than the Escape 17. But I would not buy another Scamp at any price. It’s kind of like having a malignant tumor removed; you hope there are no relapses. And frankly, you too are assuming that you know the reason why everyone who changes does so. Sorry, but I find no validity in an absolute statement.

steve dunham 09-10-2020 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPW (Post 792765)
Steve, you totally missed my point. If size matters, many people would not be in 13 foot trailers. Floyd May have hit the nail on the head for some, but not everyone goes from Scamp to Escape or from Casita to Oliver for size alone. I went from a Scamp 19 to and Escape 5.0TA because my Scamp was a POS, and I repeat, a total POS. You should understand what I am saying because many of your posts including this one (implying that you will go back to Casita if they were to come out with a larger trailer). My Escape is not the POS that my Scamp was. I could have gone to a Casita, but I wanted a connection in the truck bed, i.e., a 5th wheel type connection. Honestly, if I were single I like the layout of the Scamp 16 front bathroom better than the Escape 17. But I would not buy another Scamp at any price. It’s kind of like having a malignant tumor removed; you hope there are no relapses. And frankly, you too are assuming that you know the reason why everyone who changes does so. Sorry, but I find no validity in an absolute statement.

You are correct, not everyone buys a larger trailer just to get a larger trailer but from all the posts I’ve read that’s seems to be the prevailing rational
My point was that I would not trade my 17 ft Casita for a 17 ft Escape because to me it represents zero gain .
The only thing I gained by going from my 17 ft Casita to a 21 ft Escape was 4 feet of space and a ton more headaches
I would not describe my Escape as a POS but considering the cost there are far to many defects to suit me.
We owned a 16 ft Scamp and had only a few minor issues but I accept the fact that your experience was totally different .
Your experience with Scamp appears to echo my experiences with Escape and since I am not willing to spend the money for an Oliver or Bigfoot , I have no choice but to stay with the status quo .

CPW 09-10-2020 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve dunham (Post 792777)
You are correct, not everyone buys a larger trailer just to get a larger trailer but from all the posts I’ve read that’s seems to be the prevailing rational
My point was that I would not trade my 17 ft Casita for a 17 ft Escape because to me it represents zero gain .
The only thing I gained by going from my 17 ft Casita to a 21 ft Escape was 4 feet of space and a ton more headaches
I would not describe my Escape as a POS but considering the cost there are far to many defects to suit me.
We owned a 16 ft Scamp and had only a few minor issues but I accept the fact that your experience was totally different .
Your experience with Scamp appears to echo my experiences with Escape and since I am not willing to spend the money for an Oliver or Bigfoot , I have no choice but to stay with the status quo .

That’s fair. I would say we are, for the most part, in agreement. About a year ago you told me why you were less than satisfied with your Escape and it is understandable. My Scamp was perhaps not a total POS but I must have had the worst customer service experience with Scamp since it’s inception. That did not help my perception of Scamp one bit.

I will say about half of the “migrants” I have corresponded with spoke changed to upsize, the other 50% did so for “other” reasons. About a year ago or so I heard rumors that Casita was considering something larger than the 17. I don’t know if anything came of it, but maybe you will get your wish. I can honestly say I would not upsize. The 5.0TA (fiberglass shell) is about one inch longer than the 21, and I have no desire to maneuver anything larger. But I agree, you are correct about our experiences being similar. My Escape has not had any of the quality issues I experienced with the Scamp 19, and it eliminated all of what I considered to be “poor” design in the Scamp 19.

Jon Vermilye 09-10-2020 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve dunham (Post 792777)
You are correct, not everyone buys a larger trailer just to get a larger trailer but from all the posts I’ve read that’s seems to be the prevailing rational
My point was that I would not trade my 17 ft Casita for a 17 ft Escape because to me it represents zero gain .
The only thing I gained by going from my 17 ft Casita to a 21 ft Escape was 4 feet of space and a ton more headaches
I would not describe my Escape as a POS but considering the cost there are far to many defects to suit me.
We owned a 16 ft Scamp and had only a few minor issues but I accept the fact that your experience was totally different .
Your experience with Scamp appears to echo my experiences with Escape and since I am not willing to spend the money for an Oliver or Bigfoot , I have no choice but to stay with the status quo .

Actually, I bought a bigger trailer, going from an Escape 17 to an Escape 21 so I could have an oven. I didn't need the extra space, but have to admit I use all 4'!

floyd 09-10-2020 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyronL (Post 792731)
Since I am 6 ft 7 inches tall if size mattered to me I wouldn't buy any fiberglass trailer. The thing I loved the most about my 16 ft Scamp was removing and sealing over about 40 rivets. That was fun.

Easily prevented with proper cap management, Every cap base on my 16YO trailer is tight, dry, and original.
Twice I have spent less than $10 and twenty minutes for overall cap replacement, even though my Scamp is not structurally assembled using rivets.


You don't say what year your Escape is, but did you have the frame replaced or repaired on recall?


I have repeatedly praised the Escape, but I tire of those (non-specific people) who try to make a whipping boy out of Scamp which is a fine trailer and occupies a niche in the industry which made it tolerable to own and use a travel trailer.


Fiberglass trailers have always been industry leaders in terms of quality and value. Some folks who wanted to trade from a Scamp to an Escape may not have been able to do so if they had owned some stick built SOB.
Resale is so good that complaining about the quality is not only obviated, but a bit perplexing when you could find an eager buyer in just a few days and get a great price.. Even if it had been abused.

I know of those who have sold their Escapes and moved to BigFoot, Oliver, or Casita, some even to stickbuilts.


Even if the Escape were the finest trailer ever made, it simple would not meet the needs or desires of every buyer. The Escape buyer should be glad that others want something else, or there would be a long wait and a high price for one.
I doubt I'll be in that line any time soon.

stevebaz 09-11-2020 03:06 PM

"Steve, you totally missed my point. If size matters, many people would not be in 13 foot trailers."

That may be true but we cant measure either, no matter how hard I pull on my tape measure I cant get my scamp 13 past 10 feet. No wonder people move up.

So people with huge trailers like Scamp 16, Casitas 17, Escape 17, 19, 21,5.0 are they being cheated too?

MyronL 09-11-2020 05:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
We know it, the best thing about any fiberglass trailer if comparing to the stick-builds is their wonderful durability against the elements.

The worst thing (for me) is their general shortness of head room. I walked into a great looking stickie once and the head room was so grand I swear, I could install the pipes for my theater organ in it (if I had a theater organ.)

My Scamp, if I still had it, would be 34 years old today. In regards to that old shell, no worries for its new owner. Ah, just a fish out of water. So smooth, so pretty.

Oh, my Escape is a 2013. It's two by four inch framing is not subject to any recall and is, well, as you might suspect, perfect.

CPW 09-11-2020 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floyd (Post 792798)
Even if the Escape were the finest trailer ever made, it simple would not meet the needs or desires of every buyer. The Escape buyer should be glad that others want something else, or there would be a long wait and a high price for one.
I doubt I'll be in that line any time soon.

Floyd, I have absolutely no idea how one would define or determine that which would be classified as the finest trailer ever made. I do not believe Escape has any claim to that title nor do I believe Scamp deserves it either. And while I have posted disparaging comments regarding the Scamp I owned and my experiences with the manufacturer, it is not because the comments were not deserved. Nor do I believe that expressing dissatisfaction with any given product or company constitutes a situation merits an analogy involving a “whipping boy.” My Scamp had seemingly endless issues which were a huge source of frustration. When I purchased it, I did not anticipate I would be spending three hours maintaining or repairing it for every hour I used it. OK, that’s a bit of an exaggeration, but it was more trouble than should be reasonably expected. As a result, I have no doubt that I will ever again be in the waiting line for another Scamp. My Escape has been everything to me that the Scamp wasn’t. Perhaps I should say it is everything I hoped the Scamp would be but unfortunately wasn’t. But I totally, 100% agree with you there is no trailer that would meet the needs or desires of every buyer. For some, that “perfect” trailer is a Scamp. For others, it is a Casita, an Escape, a Bigfoot, a Trillium, a Boler, a U-Haul, blah, blah, blah, etc. So maybe the finest trailer ever made is really a personal state of mind; it is the trailer that a totally satisfied consumer like you or me own, regardless of brand.

floyd 09-11-2020 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPW (Post 792904)
Floyd, I have absolutely no idea how one would define or determine that which would be classified as the finest trailer ever made. I do not believe Escape has any claim to that title nor do I believe Scamp deserves it either. And while I have posted disparaging comments regarding the Scamp I owned and my experiences with the manufacturer, it is not because the comments were not deserved. Nor do I believe that expressing dissatisfaction with any given product or company constitutes a situation merits an analogy involving a “whipping boy.” My Scamp had seemingly endless issues which were a huge source of frustration. When I purchased it, I did not anticipate I would be spending three hours maintaining or repairing it for every hour I used it. OK, that’s a bit of an exaggeration, but it was more trouble than should be reasonably expected. As a result, I have no doubt that I will ever again be in the waiting line for another Scamp. My Escape has been everything to me that the Scamp wasn’t. Perhaps I should say it is everything I hoped the Scamp would be but unfortunately wasn’t. But I totally, 100% agree with you there is no trailer that would meet the needs or desires of every buyer. For some, that “perfect” trailer is a Scamp. For others, it is a Casita, an Escape, a Bigfoot, a Trillium, a Boler, a U-Haul, blah, blah, blah, etc. So maybe the finest trailer ever made is really a personal state of mind; it is the trailer that a totally satisfied consumer like you or me own, regardless of brand.

You missed my point about the "finest trailer ever made", it was a hypothetical.
You got my conclusion toward the end however.:cheers

CPW 09-12-2020 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floyd (Post 792905)
You missed my point about the "finest trailer ever made", it was a hypothetical.
You got my conclusion toward the end however.:cheers

It would be extremely difficult for anyone with even a moderate amount of intelligence to NOT realize your statement was hypothetical when it started “even if.” You are wrong, I knew what you were saying, and what your probable intentions were. I have had far too many conversations with you over the years not to know from where you are coming, and I would hope, you me. And I believe while we tend to “spar” with one another in good fun, we basically agree about many things. I just don’t share your good experiences with the company that built (or their product), what is for YOU, the finest trailer ever made. :reye2

steve dunham 09-12-2020 07:06 AM

I think it’s strange when people state that the FG trailer they bought is just perfect , , the build quality is excellent , not a single thing was wrong , everything was just perfect , and they would recommend their trailer to everyone , and yet those same people are on the forum regularly asking how to fix a roof leak or a window leak , or their battery won’t charge, or their water heater won’t light or my door fell off , or my cabinet hinges broke , or my plumbing leaks , or my frame cracked in half , or my counter top delaminated
, or my propane tray fell off , or my LED lights are strobing , etc ,etc etc , on to infinity
Since there is no established quality standards for FG trailers then they all can be fairly judged as the biggest POS in the world or the greatest thing on earth

I owned three different FG trailers ( Scamp , Casita , Escape ) and the quality of everyone left a lot to be desired .
There is no best , some are just less mediocre than the others .
I am partial to Casita not because ours was perfect but because it caused me far less problems / repairs / headaches / frustrations than our Escape .
As far as I am concerned the quality of all the FG trailers sucks , the good thing is they suck less than most stick builts . Not much of a compliment !!

My buddy bought a new stick built 5th wheel near the same time as we bought our new FG trailer
In the two years he’s owned his 5th wheel its been back to the dealer once for two minor repairs while I have done over 2 pages of repairs and I had no dealer to turn to so all the work fell on me .

Alf S. 09-12-2020 07:38 AM

Hi: steve dunham... If all that work fell on me I'd be under the gun!!! This comparison of these two trailers is so unfair. It's like looking at the diff. between a "Caddy" or a "Shove roll it".
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie:wave

steve dunham 09-12-2020 07:50 AM

Good Morning Alf ; I hope the weather is good for your upcoming rally
I am sure it will be a great success as always !

Alf S. 09-12-2020 08:28 AM

So called distancing!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steve dunham (Post 792918)
Good Morning Alf ; I hope the weather is good for your upcoming rally
I am sure it will be a great success as always !

Hi: steve dunham... Our all Canadian Niagara Wine Escape attendees will attempt to have as much fun as we can, at a social distance!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie:wave

floyd 09-13-2020 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPW (Post 792908)
It would be extremely difficult for anyone with even a moderate amount of intelligence to NOT realize your statement was hypothetical when it started “even if.” You are wrong, I knew what you were saying, and what your probable intentions were. I have had far too many conversations with you over the years not to know from where you are coming, and I would hope, you me. And I believe while we tend to “spar” with one another in good fun, we basically agree about many things. I just don’t share your good experiences with the company that built (or their product), what is for YOU, the finest trailer ever made. :reye2

Some say that the Duesenberg was the finest car ever built, I still prefer a Ford even from the same era... good, solid, reliable and relatively cheap.
Not sure which is the finest fiberglass trailer... Maybe Oliver? BigFoot? Nest? some even think it is Escape!
My Ford and my Scamp serve me well with a proven track record, I guess that's what counts.

CPW 09-13-2020 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floyd (Post 793132)
Some say that the Duesenberg was the finest car ever built, I still prefer a Ford even from the same era... good, solid, reliable and relatively cheap.
Not sure which is the finest fiberglass trailer... Maybe Oliver? BigFoot? Nest? some even think it is Escape!
My Ford and my Scamp serve me well with a proven track record, I guess that's what counts.

Floyd, my dad always went all starry-eyed when he talked about Packards. Maybe a fine car but it ended up like the dodo..... extinct. I really don’t think that there is a finest fiberglass trailer. And I would NOT contest a single word in your last sentence because you include the very important qualifier “serve Me well” but you should perhaps add “for me” after “proven track record.” I say that because I doubt there is a person alive who can honestly claim every item they have ever purchased/owned has served them well. And not everyone has had a proven track record with Ford or Scamp. Except for the recent EMP incident that was obviously beyond Ford’s control, I have not owned a Ford product that was a dud. But I’ve owned three Chrysler products and every one was a dud, which is why I will never own another. Yet there are many people who swear by Rams. Poor track record in my case, and good track record in theirs. I only wish that I could have had as good an experience with my Scamp as you have had with yours, but I didn’t. It would have saved me a ton of money and oodles of stress and frustration. But no matter what the product, there will always be some loyal consumers and some disgruntled customers as a result of their individual experiences. So if there is a finest FG trailer and a finest tow vehicle, I would say there are as as many “finest” as there are happy owners. I honestly like your Scamp 13 and the modifications you have made to it. While is a bit compact for my tastes, my tastes do not matter as you are the one who has to be pleased. For the record, I don’t get the adoration of the Duesenberg either!

CPW 09-13-2020 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floyd (Post 793132)
Some say that the Duesenberg was the finest car ever built, I still prefer a Ford even from the same era... good, solid, reliable and relatively cheap.
Not sure which is the finest fiberglass trailer... Maybe Oliver? BigFoot? Nest? some even think it is Escape!
My Ford and my Scamp serve me well with a proven track record, I guess that's what counts.

Floyd, my dad always went all starry-eyed when he talked about Packards. Maybe a fine car but it ended up like the dodo..... extinct. I really don’t think that there is a finest fiberglass trailer. And I would NOT contest a single word in your last sentence because you include the very important qualifier “serve me well” but perhaps you should add “for me” after “proven track record.” I say that because I doubt there is a person alive who can honestly claim every item they have ever purchased/owned has served them well. And not everyone has had a proven track record with Ford or Scamp. Except for the recent EMP incident that was obviously beyond Ford’s control, I have not owned a Ford product that was a dud. But I’ve owned three Chrysler products and every one was a dud, which is why I will never own another. Yet there are many people who swear by Rams. Poor track record in my case, and good track record in theirs. I only wish that I could have had as good an experience with my Scamp as you have had with yours, but I didn’t. It would have saved me a ton of money and oodles of stress and frustration. But no matter what the product, there will always be some loyal consumers and some disgruntled customers as a result of their individual experiences. So if there is a finest FG trailer and a finest tow vehicle, I would say there are as as many “finest” as there are happy owners. I honestly like your Scamp 13 and the modifications you have made to it. While is a bit compact for my tastes, my tastes do not matter as you are the one who has to be pleased. For the record, I don’t get the adoration of the Duesenberg either!

Perryb67 09-14-2020 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo (Post 792747)
I don't understand this paragraph. It seems to contradict itself.

Opps! Should say Scamp and Escape.

Thanks,

Perry

Perryb67 09-14-2020 08:19 AM

Sometimes you have to consider the source. One person here is leaving out the fact he purchased the camper used. Of course he believed the seller that it had only been used a couple of times. Ya, ya, ya, I know how sales work. He PM'd me the problems and most were either vendor problems or problems that the previous owner created. There were so many things wrong he obviously didn't do his due diligence, but he continues to complain to this day; it all was the manufacturers fault. It gets old to listen to his diatribe. His glass is always half-empty.

We've owned a 2001 Scamp, 2007 Casita, 2003 Bigfoot, and a 2018 Escape, in that order. We've loved them all, and despite them all needing repairs, I'd purchase each one again. My glass is half-full. Actually, nearly full!

Enjoy,

Perry

floyd 09-14-2020 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPW (Post 793139)
Floyd, my dad always went all starry-eyed when he talked about Packards. Maybe a fine car but it ended up like the dodo..... extinct. I really don’t think that there is a finest fiberglass trailer. And I would NOT contest a single word in your last sentence because you include the very important qualifier “serve me well” but perhaps you should add “for me” after “proven track record.” I say that because I doubt there is a person alive who can honestly claim every item they have ever purchased/owned has served them well. And not everyone has had a proven track record with Ford or Scamp. Except for the recent EMP incident that was obviously beyond Ford’s control, I have not owned a Ford product that was a dud. But I’ve owned three Chrysler products and every one was a dud, which is why I will never own another. Yet there are many people who swear by Rams. Poor track record in my case, and good track record in theirs. I only wish that I could have had as good an experience with my Scamp as you have had with yours, but I didn’t. It would have saved me a ton of money and oodles of stress and frustration. But no matter what the product, there will always be some loyal consumers and some disgruntled customers as a result of their individual experiences. So if there is a finest FG trailer and a finest tow vehicle, I would say there are as as many “finest” as there are happy owners. I honestly like your Scamp 13 and the modifications you have made to it. While is a bit compact for my tastes, my tastes do not matter as you are the one who has to be pleased. For the record, I don’t get the adoration of the Duesenberg either!

You can say that again... No wait you already did!!
Oh! and the Duesenberg was so esteemed in its day that the phrase "Its a Duesy" was coined from it to bestow the highest compliment.

steve dunham 09-14-2020 10:17 AM

We are the second owner of our Escape , the original owner picked up the trailer from Escape in late February of 2018 and hauled it home. In May the original owner put the trailer up for sale due to health issues and we purchased it in June
Escape extended the full 2 year warranty to us as second owners because the trailer was in essence brand new
The sewer pipe from the black tank to the drain valve was improperly installed and leaked black water all over the floor . Escape was aware of the problem with the black tank ,and had a repair parts kit already in stock which they sent me
How that possibly is the previous owners fault or my lack of due diligence escapes me !!
Beyond that I have no intentions of starting a discussion with an uninformed party and I stand by my statements about the build quality of an Escape

Steve D

Dave and Kathie 09-14-2020 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve dunham (Post 793188)
We are the second owner of our Escape , the original owner picked up the trailer from Escape in late February of 2018 and hauled it home. In May the original owner put the trailer up for sale due to health issues and we purchased it in June
Escape extended the full 2 year warranty to us as second owners because the trailer was in essence brand new
The sewer pipe from the black tank to the drain valve was improperly installed and leaked black water all over the floor . Escape was aware of the problem with the black tank ,and had a repair parts kit already in stock which they sent me
How that possibly is the previous owners fault or my lack of due diligence escapes me !!
Beyond that I have no intentions of starting a discussion with an uninformed party and I stand by my statements about the build quality of an Escape

Steve D


As they say your mileage may vary. I don't know if there's such thing as the perfect trailer. We feel our escape is pretty close for us. We have had zero defects with our Escape and, I believe, that is the experience of hundreds of Escape owners (I'm basing that on the Escape Owners forum, Facebook page and the many owners we know or have met at get togethers). We had a Casita, also a nice trailer. We enjoy having a little more breathing room in the 21. Our son has a well loved Scamp - had to replace part of the floor that rotted - if you are trying to decide, don't forget Scamp does not have fiberglass on the bottom. But they love it! We have traveled thousands of miles all around the US in the Escape and have been very happy with it. Have fun looking. Get one and get out there and make some memories! If you're out having fun then you have the right trailer! It's all part of the adventure.

Happy trails, and as always, safe travels!
;) Kathie

thrifty bill 09-14-2020 11:25 AM

To me, all the brands are pretty decent.I can't knock one over another. The one thing I can say is the jalousie windows in my Trillium are great but not available in any of the new stuff.

The critical piece for us was floorplan. Fortunately, we have more than adequate tow capacity with our V8 F150 so we can pull most of the models out there. The E19 floor plan fit us well so thats what we have along with the Trillium 1300.

In the end, get what you like.

Raz 09-14-2020 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrifty bill (Post 793197)
To me, all the brands are pretty decent.I can't knock one over another. The one thing I can say is the jalousie windows in my Trillium are great but not available in any of the new stuff.

Happier Camper was using the same Hehr 8700 jalousie windows Scamp was. I'm not sure if they still are. Considering the complaints from folks with sliders, you would think others would.

MyronL 09-14-2020 01:13 PM

Complaints about sliders? I think not. But have read of many problems with the frameless windows. Like delamination, disconnection, opening when driving. Give me a (bomb-proof) slider any day.

Timber Wolf 09-14-2020 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northwinds13 (Post 792642)
If I ever get another fiberglass trailer, it will be for a bigger bed. But every year I hang onto the Scamp, I’m saving money.

Sums up my thoughts. I have spent a lot of time and money moving my Scamp 16 in a direction of more usefulness for my style of camping. And more to go yet, but I do have 3 footitis and want an Escape 19 “for when I retire”;).

floyd 09-14-2020 03:14 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by northwinds13 (Post 792642)
If I ever get another fiberglass trailer, it will be for a bigger bed. But every year I hang onto the Scamp, I’m saving money.

Here's a "king" bed in my 13Scamp...

John in Santa Cruz 09-14-2020 11:57 PM

We had a Casita 16.... the bed was too small for the two of us, one of us had to crawl over the other to make midnight potty runs, and it was generally me. the dinette-bed conversion was too small for me (I'm 6' tall and 220 lbs). the grey water tank would fill up if my wife took one shower (I could take several sponge baths). the Casita 16 has a tiny fridge that's almost worthless. other than that it was great :)

so after a couple years, we upgraded to an Escape 21, which has an almost queen size longitudinal bed with a real mattress, has much bigger tanks, dual golf cart batteries and 160 watts solar, a GAS OVEN, a HUGE fridge/freezer and a very comfortable U shaped dinette, which I upgraded with a Springfield pedestal and dicor 2-way slider. I can stand up in the Escape without slouching. The Escape has way more storage, too.


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