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Ceceoh 04-13-2021 07:17 AM

Dry flush toilet offered by Scamp
 
This is now an option on new Scamps. I have read the thread here about composting toilets - all 6 pages! - but didnít see dry flush options mentioned. The pros seem to be that they are oderless, light weight, and you donít have to separate the urine. The con would be the bag cartridges, as theyíre more expensive to buy than peat moss, though lighter to pack.

I want to boondock, so a waterless toilet seems a good way to go, but wondered if anyone here has used the dry flush?

Phil Underwood 04-13-2021 03:51 PM

subscribed to this thread

redfishnc 04-18-2021 03:29 PM

Dry flush head
 
Watched their youtube. It looks kinda cool. My big issue is 'you just throw the bag in the trash'. Throwing raw sewage into a trashcan doesn't sound right, you can't just throw raw sewage away like that. At about $2 a flush it is also a costly endeavor. If I went this way I think the composting toilet is still a better alternative. Many boaters have gone with the composting toilet and I have been on boats with them and there was no smell. I went to a toilet that used only fresh water and resolved 98% of the smell (saltwater seems to be a real culprit in respect to odors). If campers used pump-outs like my sailboat not that is better than the current method to me. Dealing with poop is just a crappy situation :(

Glenn Baglo 04-18-2021 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redfishnc (Post 811539)
My big issue is 'you just throw the bag in the trash'.


Well, if you spare no thought for the person that has to empty the trash, or the environment; if you only think about yourself, it's no problem.

Mikmay 04-18-2021 07:58 PM

Happier Camper have been offering the Dry Flush toilet for 5 years without a single complaint on its use other than the high cost per flush ,the discarded cartridge is accepted at all landfills and is considered the same as infant or adult diapers which even some here may use . There has never been a complaint on smells in the trailer.Happier Camper also offer a black tank and toilet or a dry flush in the bathroom equipped HCT with most customers opting for the latter. To each his own.

Mikmay 04-18-2021 08:06 PM

Of course I meant people on here with infants ?

Glenn Baglo 04-18-2021 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikmay (Post 811568)
Of course I meant people on here with infants ?


Hope you realize that the contents of an infant's diaper are supposed to be flushed down the toilet to enter the municipal sewage treatment system. They are not to be thrown, full of crap, in a dumpster for maintenance employees to enjoy, or to leach into ground water.

Mikmay 04-18-2021 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo (Post 811572)
Hope you realize that the contents of an infant's diaper are supposed to be flushed down the toilet to enter the municipal sewage treatment system. They are not to be thrown, full of crap, in a dumpster for maintenance employees to enjoy, or to leach into ground water.

All contents can be discarded in all landfills if placed in a separate container or bag the same that applies to diapers per the company website I would think a company that made the investment to sell their product would check with the regulations required

Mikmay 04-18-2021 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo (Post 811572)
Hope you realize that the contents of an infant's diaper are supposed to be flushed down the toilet to enter the municipal sewage treatment system. They are not to be thrown, full of crap, in a dumpster for maintenance employees to enjoy, or to leach into ground water.

You also may want to check what you throw in the garbage as some plastics and others products do much more harm to the environment than human waste will.

Glenn Baglo 04-18-2021 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikmay (Post 811574)
All contents can be discarded in all landfills


Is that why millions are spent on sewage treatment facilities?

Glenn Baglo 04-18-2021 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikmay (Post 811577)
You also may want to check what you throw in the garbage as some plastics and others products do much more harm to the environment than human waste will.


Bears poop in the woods.


AKA false equivalence.

This fallacy is committed when one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result.[2] False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence does not bear scrutiny because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors. The pattern of the fallacy is often as such: "If A is the set of c and d, and B is the set of d and e, then since they both contain d, A and B are equal". d is not required to exist in both sets; only a passing similarity is required to cause this fallacy to be used.

Mikmay 04-19-2021 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo (Post 811585)
Is that why millions are spent on sewage treatment facilities?

Hope you realize that the thousands of workers in sewage plants ,septic tank clean out services and even careless rv owners (just check out the movie RV) can come in contact with raw sewage ,but maybe they do not matter as much as the landfill worker up high on their bulldozer, The dry flush uses a completely sealed leakproof cartridge and is why it is pretty expensive and is usually used in emergencies or with careful planning the dry flush system is also used by many tiny home owners and those living off grid as they can be even more environmentally conscious then even RV owners.

Jon in AZ 04-19-2021 06:05 AM

The Great Poop Wars... :D

This has come up before and I have yet to see any links to official sources. The makers of adult incontinence diapers say it is legal to dispose in the trash, provided it is sealed inside a disposal bag.

Lots of information and discussions regarding baby diapers. The link below cites two official sources, the US EPA and a California agency. Neither appears to distinguish between infant and adult poo. Cliff notes version: in small quantities, human poo is considered non-hazardous solid waste by the EPA and the state of California, safe for landfills.
https://cafemom.com/parenting/124241..._putting_babys

I was unable to locate a primary source.

Glenn is in Canada, so their laws may well be different. There could also be more stringent local laws in some parts of the US. Private waste services may have their own rules.

I don’t think there is a simple answer, especially- legalities aside- whether it is best practice.

Mikmay 04-19-2021 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo (Post 811586)
Bears poop in the woods.


AKA false equivalence.

This fallacy is committed when one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result.[2] False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence does not bear scrutiny because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors. The pattern of the fallacy is often as such: "If A is the set of c and d, and B is the set of d and e, then since they both contain d, A and B are equal". d is not required to exist in both sets; only a passing similarity is required to cause this fallacy to be used.

yes bears and every other animal and with livestock being the largest producer of methane and greenhouse gas I do not think a responsible dry flush owner disposing of a well sealed cartridge a few times a year is going to pose much of a problem .

Mikmay 04-19-2021 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ (Post 811592)
The Great Poop Wars... :D

This has come up before and I have yet to see any links to official sources. The makers of adult incontinence diapers say it is legal to dispose in the trash, provided it is sealed inside a disposal bag.

Lots of information and discussions regarding baby diapers. This link cites two official sources, the US EPA and a California agency. Neither appears to distinguish between infant and adult poo. Cliff notes version: in small quantities, human poo is considered non-hazardous solid waste by the EPA and the state of California, safe for landfills.
[url]https://cafemom.com/parenting/124241-a_law_against_putting_babys[/
I was unable to locate a primary source.

Glenn is in Canada, so their laws may well be different. There could also be more stringent local laws in some parts of the US. Private waste services may have their own rules.

I donít think there is a simple answer, especially- legalities aside- whether it is best practice.

Agreed not a simple answer ,until people stop pooping it all has to go somewhere.

Donna D. 04-19-2021 07:55 AM

I have no desire for a dry flush toilet nor a composting toilet. A marine toilet works just fine. Dumping a black tank isn't difficult or gross.


Sometime I may wish to boondock and will want to watch my water consumption (I have a 28 gallon fresh water tank). In this case, I'm going to use a WAG bag inside the toilet (with the water shut off) and will use the toilet seat to hold it in place. So see, an RV toilet CAN be adapted, but not a dry flush toilet or composting toilet.

Mikmay 04-19-2021 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donna D. (Post 811608)
I have no desire for a dry flush toilet nor a composting toilet. A marine toilet works just fine. Dumping a black tank isn't difficult or gross.


Sometime I may wish to boondock and will want to watch my water consumption (I have a 28 gallon fresh water tank). In this case, I'm going to use a WAG bag inside the toilet (with the water shut off) and will use the toilet seat to hold it in place. So see, an RV toilet CAN be adapted, but not a dry flush toilet or composting toilet.

So what will be your plan to dispose of the wag bag and it is easy for those to make that choice in a bathroom black tank equipped trailer but not so much in a smaller trailer or one with out that option your really not comparing apples to apples. here

Donna D. 04-19-2021 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikmay (Post 811612)
So what will be your plan to dispose of the wag bag and it is easy for those to make that choice in a bathroom black tank equipped trailer but not so much in a smaller trailer or one with out that option your really not comparing apples to apples. here

WAG bags use Poo Powderģ gelling/deodorizing agent, which was developed by NASA for use on the International Space Station. After use, the bags going into the trash. Poo Powder is non-toxic and does not contain harmful chemicals.

My comment only stated why I didn't want a dry flush toilet NOR a composting toilet. I have options, those don't offer any.

steve dunham 04-19-2021 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikmay (Post 811591)
Hope you realize that the thousands of workers in sewage plants ,septic tank clean out services and even careless rv owners (just check out the movie RV) can come in contact with raw sewage ,but maybe they do not matter as much as the landfill worker up high on their bulldozer, The dry flush uses a completely sealed leakproof cartridge and is why it is pretty expensive and is usually used in emergencies or with careful planning the dry flush system is also used by many tiny home owners and those living off grid as they can be even more environmentally conscious then even RV owners.

Equating the use of a dry flush / composting toilet with being environmentally conscious is the biggest load of BS that I’ve seen / heard in a long time
Dumping your waste in a dumpster is nothing more than passing your problem on to some other poor unsuspecting soul .
Like the old saying goes “ Everyone can’t live upstream “

If you choose to utilize an alternative waste disposal system, so be it ,but moral / ecological superiority isn’t part of the choice .
We have an outhouse at our residence but I have no intentions of dragging it along with us , when we go
camping !

Mikmay 04-19-2021 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donna D. (Post 811613)
WAG bags use Poo Powderģ gelling/deodorizing agent, which was developed by NASA for use on the International Space Station. After use, the bags going into the trash. Poo Powder is non-toxic and does not contain harmful chemicals.

My comment only stated why I didn't want a dry flush toilet NOR a composting toilet. I have options, those don't offer any.

Dry flush cartridges have no need for any chemical add ons as they are completely sealed away from any contact so I donít really see the difference and I still do not see if someone has a better option for those not having a black tank bathroom

Donna D. 04-19-2021 10:11 AM

I don't like porta potties either, but at least they don't require expensive bags. I wonder how costly the bags would be for a family of four for a week. Two adults and two small children. Kids pee often....

Jon in AZ 04-19-2021 10:35 AM

Porta-potties are still water-based, which puts you up against your fresh water storage limits when boondocking, as well as the small waste tank.

If youíre reasonably careful with what you allow into your grey tank Iím thinking you can use it to flush rather than your precious fresh water.

Add a few 5-gallon water jugs in the bed of your truck to extend your stay further.

Mikmay 04-19-2021 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve dunham (Post 811622)
Equating the use of a dry flush / composting toilet with being environmentally conscious is the biggest load of BS that Iíve seen / heard in a long time
Dumping your waste in a dumpster is nothing more than passing your problem on to some other poor unsuspecting soul .
Like the old saying goes ď Everyone canít live upstream ď

If you choose to utilize an alternative waste disposal system, so be it ,but moral / ecological superiority isnít part of the choice .
We have an outhouse at our residence but I have no intentions of dragging it along with us , when we go
camping !

so what will your plan be for when you or someone you care for will have to dispose of your diapers or is that morraly iresponsable

steve dunham 04-19-2021 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikmay (Post 811645)
so what will your plan be for when you or someone you care for will have to dispose of your diapers or is that morraly iresponsable

This subject has been debated to death and I stand by my post
If you believe that defecating in a waste basket or a trash can or dumpster is acceptable behavior / policy then my opinion that it is wrong is of no consequence .

Mikmay 04-19-2021 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve dunham (Post 811647)
This subject has been debated to death and I stand by my post
If you believe that defecating in a waste basket or a trash can or dumpster is acceptable behavior / policy then my opinion that it is wrong is of no consequence .

Yes easy to say when you are sitting on your throne in a 21 ft trailer ,nice to have the luxury but there are many who donít have that option . There are many more people that have to deal with waste other than the standard sewage system There are literally tons of sót every day from hospitals ,nursing homes and many more sources every day taken to dumps or incinerated which is another problem itself than the small amount of weekend campers who properly dispose of a well sealed and engineered cartridge and not S ót in a bag as you say .

Glenn Baglo 04-19-2021 12:37 PM

As you like to 'represent' Happier Camper as an insider, it would probably be wise of you to not engage in arguments involving choices made by the company. Or, to at least run it by them. Or, at least be on the right side.

Mikmay 04-19-2021 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo (Post 811659)
As you like to 'represent' Happier Camper as an insider, it would probably be wise of you to not engage in arguments involving choices made by the company. Or, to at least run it by them. Or, at least be on the right side.

I am not representing Happier Camper on this topic this is a topic on Scamps position to offer this option and me knowing itís use and advantages to anyone interested. This is something I have personal knowledge on its use and has no bearing on Happier Camper . Happier Camper only offers this toilet on the HC1 and anyone is free to choose another source for their trailer if this will not work for them .HC also offers
A black tank system or the dry flush for the HCT Which again is the customers choice .

Jon in AZ 04-20-2021 08:29 AM

Glenn, do you have a source indicating it is illegal to dispose of small quantities of properly sealed poo in the trash in BC or in Canada generally? That would certainly be useful information for someone considering any of the waterless systems and planning to travel in Canada.

As to whether it presents a hazard to waste removal workers, I see no reason why it should. If done correctly it’s in sealed containers with an agent to limit odors. Trash handling seems to be contactless now from curb to landfill. We're not talking about dropping it in an indoor wastepaper basket, but a dumpster outside.

Waterless systems are only intended for small quantities on an occasional basis where water or other facilities are not available. The economics of it is naturally self-limiting. Even those that have waterless systems tend to use public facilities when available. As you point out, modern sewage treatment facilities are far better equipped to hand human waste in quantity. I believe there is a residue of solid waste that does go to landfills after processing.

I don’t have a bone in this fight... err... friendly disagreement. At one time I did rig up a miniature separating toilet in a #10 can in order to spend a week kayak camping on Lake Powell, where the rule is “pack it out.” No plans to do anything like that again, but it was an amazing way to experience the lake.

Glenn Baglo 04-20-2021 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ (Post 811717)
Glenn, do you have a source indicating it is illegal to dispose of small quantities of properly sealed poo in the trash in BC or in Canada generally?


I do not, but I haven't looked. In BC we have recycling centres and government mandated bottle / can deposits. It's not illegal to throw your Coke can in the garbage because there isn't a law saying so, but it is discouraged.

Just like taking a dump on Pelosi's desk. :D

Jon in AZ 04-20-2021 09:45 AM

Am I smelling another false equivalence here? :loltu

Glenn Baglo 04-20-2021 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ (Post 811722)
Am I smelling another false equivalence here? :loltu


Could well be. :D

Mikmay 04-20-2021 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo (Post 811720)
I do not, but I haven't looked. In BC we have recycling centres and government mandated bottle / can deposits. It's not illegal to throw your Coke can in the garbage because there isn't a law saying so, but it is discouraged.

Just like taking a dump on Pelosi's desk. :D

Careful Glen n been getting away with words like dump and sót but mixing politics may be going to far

Ceceoh 04-24-2021 07:48 PM

Geez, my thread blew up behind my back! Sorry I have not replied sooner, but real life reared its ugly head.

I was inquiring about the dry flush because I will be ordering a new Scamp soon, am interested in exploring boondocking and free camping options. Also, the options and technology has changed so much since I went RVing with my parents back in the 80s. My first thoughts were that a dry flush would be simpler to deal with. No chemicals, no winterizing, no flushing tanks or worrying about leaking pipes or messy dump stations. Also, the dry flush doesnít require keeping your urine separate, like a composting toilet.

I wasnít too concerned about disposing of a sealed bag of waste in a dumpster. I do this every time I walk my dog. I was more worried about adding more plastic into the waste stream. Also resale value of the Scamp. Just because I could live with a dry flush system doesnít mean a potential future buyer would want one.

I suppose Iíll wind up going with the conventional system. If I want to switch later, it would be easier to seal off a black tank and take out a toilet, than it would to install a flush system after market.

Next decision: roof AC or an extra solar panel?

Mikmay 04-24-2021 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceceoh (Post 812181)
Geez, my thread blew up behind my back! Sorry I have not replied sooner, but real life reared its ugly head.

I was inquiring about the dry flush because I will be ordering a new Scamp soon, am interested in exploring boondocking and free camping options. Also, the options and technology has changed so much since I went RVing with my parents back in the 80s. My first thoughts were that a dry flush would be simpler to deal with. No chemicals, no winterizing, no flushing tanks or worrying about leaking pipes or messy dump stations. Also, the dry flush doesnít require keeping your urine separate, like a composting toilet.

I wasnít too concerned about disposing of a sealed bag of waste in a dumpster. I do this every time I walk my dog. I was more worried about adding more plastic into the waste stream. Also resale value of the Scamp. Just because I could live with a dry flush system doesnít mean a potential future buyer would want one.

I suppose Iíll wind up going with the conventional system. If I want to switch later, it would be easier to seal off a black tank and take out a toilet, than it would to install a flush system after market.

Next decision: roof AC or an extra solar panel?

If you donít want to see your posts blowup donít use the words like flush, toilet,compost, or anything involving bodily functions.solar and ac will be ok.

Ceceoh 04-24-2021 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikmay (Post 812185)
If you donít want to see your posts blowup donít use the words like flush, toilet,compost, or anything involving bodily functions.solar and ac will be ok.

I suppose ďgasĒ should be avoided too? 😁

thrifty bill 04-24-2021 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikmay (Post 811577)
You also may want to check what you throw in the garbage as some plastics and others products do much more harm to the environment than human waste will.

Having been in the adhesive business where we supplied the diaper market, they were one of the worst as far as landfill waste. First, they were a mix of paper, plastic and glue. Mixed waste means no chance of recycling. Secondly, they were "contaminated" with human waste, so obviously not recycling them at that point.

The estimates I have seen are it takes about 500 years for a disposable diaper to fully decompose. Landfills are full of them.

Its one of those "modern marvels" that is a waste generating disaster.

To those with interest, the diapers tended to use hot melt adhesive to glue them together. The disposable diaper invention was "great" for the glue business. And developing countries (think India and China) are starting to embrace the use of disposable diapers which is great for the adhesive industry.

I used to have to inspect landfills as part of my job. Only then do you get to experience what happens to the garbage you put on the curb to have picked up. The smell alone will turn your stomach. The endless piles of trash, much of it that could have been recycled, is disgusting as well. Out of sight, out of mind.

Mikmay 04-24-2021 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceceoh (Post 812187)
I suppose ďgasĒ should be avoided too? 😁

Trailers donít run on gas so yes it needs to be avoided ,propane is ok

Jon in AZ 04-25-2021 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceceoh (Post 812181)
Geez, my thread blew up behind my back! Sorry I have not replied sooner, but real life reared its ugly head.

I was inquiring about the dry flush because I will be ordering a new Scamp soon, am interested in exploring boondocking and free camping options. Also, the options and technology has changed so much since I went RVing with my parents back in the 80s. My first thoughts were that a dry flush would be simpler to deal with. No chemicals, no winterizing, no flushing tanks or worrying about leaking pipes or messy dump stations. Also, the dry flush doesn’t require keeping your urine separate, like a composting toilet.

I wasn’t too concerned about disposing of a sealed bag of waste in a dumpster. I do this every time I walk my dog. I was more worried about adding more plastic into the waste stream. Also resale value of the Scamp. Just because I could live with a dry flush system doesn’t mean a potential future buyer would want one.

I suppose I’ll wind up going with the conventional system. If I want to switch later, it would be easier to seal off a black tank and take out a toilet, than it would to install a flush system after market.

Next decision: roof AC or an extra solar panel?

I think you made a good call. "Boondocking and free camping" usually means no trash receptacle, so you'd be storing and carting out those bags of waste. The per use cost is very high, which diminishes the case for free. And last, some boondocking areas require a black tank system with a minimum tank size.

A/C or solar...

A/C requires an electrical hook-up or a large generator. OTOH, it's one of those things that's almost obligatory in some parts of the country. We don't have it, and in the West it's not as important, but if I were spec'ing a new trailer in Ohio, I'd at least want to make provision to add it later with space, reinforcement, and wiring in place.

Solar should be closely matched to your battery capacity and electrical use. Since the Scamp can operate high energy functions (heat, cooking, hot water, and fridge) on propane when off grid, most people find they can manage fine with a single 12V battery and a single 100W solar panel. If you're going to add an inverter to run household appliances off-grid, then you might need more battery as well as more solar.

If it were me, I'd include A/C if I thought I might do some summer camping in campgrounds with power, or leave the A/C space available and have it pre-wired and reinforced for an easy future install. I'd also have a separate powered roof vent. Finally I'd opt for a single 100W portable solar panel, which gives you more flexibility: park the trailer in the shade and locate the panel in full sun; orient and angle the panel in winter to maximize solar collection when the sun is low in the sky.

steve dunham 04-25-2021 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikmay (Post 812185)
If you donít want to see your posts blowup donít use the words like flush, toilet,compost, or anything involving bodily functions.solar and ac will be ok.

Our trailer has the factory rooftop A/C and two rooftop solar panels
If we could do it over I would eliminate one of the rooftop solar panels
One rooftop solar panel and the ability to utilize a portable solar panel makes more financial and energy sense for us
As far as A/C , I would not own a trailer without it
The theory that the roof fan moving hot air around will cool the trailer just doesnít work for us - We like our sleep at night
Anytime it getís close 80 deg F , I WANT A/C

Ceceoh 04-25-2021 12:56 PM

I do like my AC in Ohio, no doubt about it. But when I retire I want to spend a good deal of time in the western states or mountains. Also I worry about the thought of cutting holes in roofs, having seen the damage a leak around an A/C can do. I have considered skipping the roof air and going with a smaller portable unit inside. Used to be your only option was a roof top a/c, but times and technologies are changing.

John in Michigan 04-25-2021 01:30 PM

Roof AC unit makes sense for a newer larger trailer where it can be ordered as an option. In our Trillium 4500, we have figured out we can use a portable AC on wheels with the old furnace exhaust vent. Our portable AC on wheels has proven effective in cooling up to 300 square feet, so no problem there.

My thought has been we would rarely use AC, and haven't yet used it from MI in the summer to FL in the winter. As the seasonal temps get warmer, we always seek camping locations further north. Also, more and more of our camping is dry camping, off grid where AC is not feasible.

Mikmay 04-25-2021 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Michigan (Post 812263)
Roof AC unit makes sense for a newer larger trailer where it can be ordered as an option. In our Trillium 4500, we have figured out we can use a portable AC on wheels with the old furnace exhaust vent. Our portable AC on wheels has proven effective in cooling up to 300 square feet, so no problem there.

My thought has been we would rarely use AC, and haven't yet used it from MI in the summer to FL in the winter. As the seasonal temps get warmer, we always seek camping locations further north. Also, more and more of our camping is dry camping, off grid where AC is not feasible.

Hold on ,Off grid ac not feasible ,not anymore . HC is now offering the option for a DC ac unit on all HC1s While I wonít get into specifics just yet HC will be offering a off grid package that will include a dc air conditioner and dedicated lithium battery and solar set up that will keep most small trailers 25-30 degrees below ambient outdoor temperatures.the package will be expensive around 5grand but with the air unit ,lithium battery and no need to purchase and drag around a large expensive generator it wonít be much more than buying a standard AC unit,lithium battery and solar panel setup separately. I know there will be skeptics but if anyone would like they can visit me here in amherstburg or In La headquarters and check it out for yourself.


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