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MJo 05-18-2021 07:34 PM

providing power to Scamp electric brakes
 
I bought the 13 ft. Scamp with electric brakes but Volvo will not change the 4 pin electric harness to a 7 pin so I can use the electric brakes. Scamp service says, ďItís a fairly straightforwardĒ process all I need in addition to the 4 pin is a ground and 12volt for power. Has anyone had this problem? I have the part to use, it provides for hooking up the 4 pin and the black, white, blue and yellow wires to use. white = ground, I think Scamp uses the black for the brakes, but I can check the diagram from Scamp. Also, the ownerís manual from Scamp shows the layout of the Scamp 7 pin connector. How would anyone deal with this? Is this something I could do without short circuiting something on my car? thanks to any kind soul willing to offer sage advice.
actually Scamp said, ď It iis fairly straightforward to wire up. You will need the 12v and ground the blue and yellow wires can be ignored as the controller is in your trailer and not in the car.Ē

MJo 05-18-2021 08:01 PM

I am thinking I could use the 2nd cigarette lighter outlet in the back seat and plug a long cord into it for 12 volt? would that work?

12V 15A Heavy Duty Male to Male Cigarette Plug Cigarette Lighter Adapter Charger Cord With LED Lights And Fuse Protection On Both Plugs available from Amazon

gordon2 05-18-2021 08:06 PM

Sounds like Scamp installed the Autowbrake device.. there is info about the controller on their website.
You need a 4 to 7 pin conversion and then run a 10 gauge wire from the battery positive post to the 7-pin brake power pin with a self-resetting circuit breaker at the battery end. Dont tap in to the lighting circuit or use an outlet for the brake power. If you overload the circuit you end up with no brakes. If you confuse the vehicle's computer by drawing power from the lighting circuit then who knows what mayhem will occur. Also don't use the trailer's battery for the brake power.. if it goes low, brakes fail. Just use a wire from the vehicle battery to the trailer's brakes via the 4 to 7 pin. Maybe you should start looking for a trailer shop who is familiar with the Autowbrake controller, or is willing to study the support info on their website and then do the job.

MJo 05-18-2021 08:15 PM

power to electric brakes
 
Iíve gone to an RV store, Majorís, here in Falmouth, MA, Iíve also argued with 2 Volvo service departments. the RV store wonít deal with a Volvo car and the Volvo dealer wonít hook up another brand to their Volvo. I contacted Scamp and You can see their reply, ďItís a fairly straightforwardÖ.etc.Ē. I am concerned about the gauge of the Amazon product, whether it is the right wire, otherwise, it seems like a snazzy way to obtain 12 volt instead of going to the car battery.

AlanKilian 05-18-2021 08:20 PM

Did Scamp install an electric brake controller on the trailer?

I installed a Tekonsha trailer-attached brake controller and hooked it up to our 2004 Volvo V70 with no issues.

But it depends on what you've got on your trailer.

gordon2 05-18-2021 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814571)
I.. I am concerned about the gauge of the Amazon product, whether it is the right wire, otherwise, it seems like a snazzy way to obtain 12 volt instead of going to the car battery.

If by "snazzy" you mean inherently dangerous, then I agree.

With increasingly complicated vehicle electrical systems, fewer and fewer shops are willing to do anything that might void the warranty or cause a problem. Toyota is bad enough.. Volvo is apparently worse.

What I have suggested (wire from the battery to the controller on the trailer) does not have any impact on the Volvo's electrical system and is therefore the best and safest way to do it... expect for the better option of using a tow vehicle that is actually wired and equipped for a trailer with brakes.

If you must use a Volvo as a tow vehicle, then you need to work harder to find a good shop to make the needed modifications.. or DIY. But if you DIY then DIR (Do It Right).

MJo 05-18-2021 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanKilian (Post 814572)
Did Scamp install an electric brake controller on the trailer?

I installed a Tekonsha trailer-attached brake controller and hooked it up to our 2004 Volvo V70 with no issues.

But it depends on what you've got on your trailer.

Yes, Scamp installed the brake controller in the Scamp. I watched the video on the Autowbrake website and they said to connect the power to the brake lights on the tow vehicle. How did you do it on your V70? did you have to convert a 4 pin connector to a 7 pin? that is my problem.

(Scamp supplied a remote to control the brakes for now, I will stay with that instead of putting a controller in the car.)

MJo 05-18-2021 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon2 (Post 814575)
If by "snazzy" you mean inherently dangerous, then I agree.

With increasingly complicated vehicle electrical systems, fewer and fewer shops are willing to do anything that might void the warranty or cause a problem. Toyota is bad enough.. Volvo is apparently worse.

What I have suggested (wire from the battery to the controller on the trailer) does not have any impact on the Volvo's electrical system and is therefore the best and safest way to do it... expect for the better option of using a tow vehicle that is actually wired and equipped for a trailer with brakes.

If you must use a Volvo as a tow vehicle, then you need to work harder to find a good shop to make the needed modifications.. or DIY. But if you DIY then DIR (Do It Right).

Thanks for your reply. Iíve been looking, since October 2020, for a qualified, Volvo knowledgeable shop to convert the 4 pin to a 7 pin and am to the point of cussing them all out. Iíve gotten responses from ignorant to insulting. So, if I want the electric brakes, at this moment I only have me to find the information to do it. the Autowbrake (manufacturer of my brake controller) video says to use the brake lights on the tow vehicle for the brakes power source.
I will keep looking for detailed instructions that are within my understanding before I disconnect or attach anything. I value my 17 year old Volvo more than having electric brakes, if it comes to that.

ThomasC 05-19-2021 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814578)
Thanks for your reply. I’ve been looking, since October 2020, for a qualified, Volvo knowledgeable shop to convert the 4 pin to a 7 pin and am to the point of cussing them all out. I’ve gotten responses from ignorant to insulting. So, if I want the electric brakes, at this moment I only have me to find the information to do it. the Autowbrake (manufacturer of my brake controller) video says to use the brake lights on the tow vehicle for the brakes power source.
I will keep looking for detailed instructions that are within my understanding before I disconnect or attach anything. I value my 17 year old Volvo more than having electric brakes, if it comes to that.

I was an imported auto mechanic all of my life. I always worked in dealerships. VW, Porsche and Audi in the 70's then Honda and Volvo in the 80's and finally Mercedes Benz in the 90's until I got burnt out by flatrate and dealerships.

I worked in a lot of different dealers and there were never very many mechanics who could do electrical work. Maybe one or two in a shop if you were lucky and it got worse as time went by. No one wanted to pay decent mechanics and they drifted into other lines of work. So you are running into this shortage.

Anyway I think your idea of that rear lighter or power socket as they are now called is a good idea. Just find out what fuse feeds it and how many amps the fuse is. Just because Amazon says their rig is 15 amps it isn't so unless the car has a 15 amp fuse.

Etrailer has a lot of info if you want to poke around. I suppose this is what I get for waking up at 3:00 AM.

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Bra...leID=200482891

gordon2 05-19-2021 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814578)
...the Autowbrake (manufacturer of my brake controller) video says to use the brake lights on the tow vehicle for the brakes power source.....

Not the brake lights.. you would use the running lights for constant power instead of only when the brake lights were on. The Autobrake installation page even underlines and bolds that sentence:
Use running lights as direct 12-volt power source.

They also say this:
When using this option, you must have your vehicle lights turned manually to the on position, and not use the automatic light feature. You must also know if you fail to turn the tow vehicle lights on while towing you will also not have functioning trailer brakes.

What they don't say is how to tell if the lighting circuit can handle the additional power requirements or if the intermittent added power draw will cause the vehicle computer to show a fault. So there are many ways that using this method can fail.

As for the cigarette lighter idea.. these plugs are notorious for falling out, which would leave you with no trailer brakes. And you would need to run the wiring from the inside of the Volvo to the 7-pin or trailer on the outside. So you either drill a hole or pinch the wire under a door. If you make a hole, be sure to use a grommet to prevent abrading the wire's insulation and causing a short. If you run it on the door seal, the wire will probably break someday from being pinched repeatedly.

In both of the above scenarios, a blow fuse will leave you with no trailer brakes.

I really don't understand why you are reluctant to do the simplest and safest thing.. and this is the last time I will suggest it:

1. Add a 4 to 7 pin conversion.. see above post.
2. Add a short run of 10 gauge wire from the battery positive post to a self resetting circuit breaker in the engine compartment. The breaker will reset and restore your brake power on it's own if it suffers an overload, giving you time to get stopped and fix the overload.
2. From the breaker, run 10 gauge wire under the vehicle to the 7-pin. Secure the wire and keep it away from the exhaust system.

This way you make no holes in the car, don't pinch the wires, don't need to worry about fuses blowing, a plug falling out or computer faults. Safe, secure and simple to do. It does not alter the Volvo's electrical system at all and it can be removed in minutes when you get ready to trade the Volvo for another tow vehicle. If your new tow vehicle is fully pre-wired at the factory for towing then you avoid all this hassle.

If you like videos, see this one at one minute 30 seconds (1:30):
https://www.etrailer.com/tv-review-a...r-3430001.aspx

Or at 2:20 in this video:
https://www.etrailer.com/tv-Demo-Aut...r-3430001.aspx

bertherr 05-19-2021 10:39 AM

See if this video helps you understand what is needed. Bert

https://www.etrailer.com/Custom-Fit-...rt/C57186.html

Lynn Eberhardt 05-19-2021 12:29 PM

I would modify Gordon's suggestion slightly.
Install a 4 to 7 pin conversion.
Run a 10 gauge wire from the auto battery positive with an inline auto reset circuit breaker and a voltage sensing relay.
Connect that wire to the 12 volt connection on the 7 pin.
Connect the AutowBrake unit to the trailer battery.
Now, the trailer brakes will work, the trailer battery will charge while you're driving, and the car battery will not discharge when you stop and remain connected.

gordon2 05-19-2021 01:22 PM

Lynn, I would modify your modification slightly.. ;)

For the charge line, run a separate wire from the battery to the 7-pin. Use a fuse at the battery. Thats they way I wired my rig.

The voltage sensing relay on the charge line is preferred but not required as long as you dont let something like the camper's fridge run down the tug's battery (i.e. disconnect). In fact a charge line is nice to have but it also is not required. I have been without one more than I have had one.

The brake power line should be dedicated to the brakes alone for maximum safety. It is also about the only time you use a self-resetting breaker instead of a fuse. Normally if there is a circuit overload you want the power shut off (fuse blown) until the cause of the overload is corrected. However the need to stop a trailer (maybe going down hill at 65 MPH) however justifies using a resetting breaker even though the overload or short might still exist when the power is restored by the breaker.

Lastly, if you do share the power line and use a relay to disconnect power when the voltage is low, it should only be after the run to the brakes power connection on the 7 pin. If a relay is inline between the tug and the trailer's brakes and the alternator fails the voltage will drop and the relay could shut off power to the trailer brakes. As long as the brakes are wired straight to the battery (with breaker) then even if the voltage drops you will still have most of the normal power to the brakes instead of none at all. The relay can be inside the trailer, between the incoming charge line and the rest of the trailer's electrical system.

MJo 05-19-2021 01:24 PM

electric brakes
 
all you wonderful people have such great ideas. Iíve just been looking for a way that this 86 year old woman (but mechanically inclined, I was a nurse for 35 years) who has been eating too many Pepperidge Farm cookies lately (especially the macadamia nut with white chocolate) and might get stuck crawling under the XC-70 to run the wires youíre talking about. Iíll think on it. Iím not adverse to doing what you suggest, I just am not to the point of feeling I can do it. Iíll keep reading your suggestions and learning. At this moment, electric brakes arenít mandatory, just preferable. Iím very appreciative of your efforts to school me.

gordon2 05-19-2021 02:15 PM

There are many DIY types who can wire this up for you.. but how to find one near you I don't know. Maybe a RV club, or ham radio club where the members routinely do low voltage wiring. Maybe even a High School auto shop class. But it seems like there must be a U-Haul or other shop that would do this.. after all, they are not making ANY connection to the Volvo except at the battery post. Add the 4 to 7 pin adapter, plug it into the 4 pin that you already have, connect the brake wire and breaker to the battery.. done.

Skills needed include proper crimping technique and knowledge of the right size ring terminals (color coded to wire gauge) as well as how to check for power and polarity (multi-meter). Also spend an extra dollar for ring terminals with heat shrink to make a water tight seal on the wire. Dont use the veh or trailer frame for the electrical ground (negative).. use wiring instead. And disconnect the battery neg side while wiring things up and keep the trailer unpowered also.

MJo 05-19-2021 02:30 PM

electric brake wiring
 
seems like it, but so far no luck. I may just make a list of the parts you mention, I already have the 4-7 connecter so the 4 is done, just need the ground and power to the brake controller. Maybe on a nice dayÖ.. Iím still needing to hang the license also. I wish the video showed attaching the wire to the battery post and adding the fuse, I can visualize doing the rest of it, I think. I wonít go through all the calls Iíve made, U-Haul and the rest, I would have used them. I just havenít found anyone who would. either itís that I have a Volvo, or that I have a brake controller, so far Iíve only found the skeptics. Iíll keep soaking up the advice that is coming my way and it may be enough. I appreciate the warnings, I donít want to damage my great old Volvo. Weíve been through a lot together.

AlanKilian 05-19-2021 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814655)
seems like it, but so far no luck.

I just completed this EXACT think on my 2004 Volvo V70 wagon.

Can you post a photo of the existing wiring you have for your 4-pin connector?

I'd be happy to post what I did to get the 4-to-7 harness wired up.

I used this one in the car:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I installed a Tekonsha RF brake controller on the Scamp, but it shouldn't make any difference what controller you have installed.

gordon2 05-19-2021 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanKilian (Post 814658)
..
I installed a Tekonsha RF brake controller on the Scamp, but it shouldn't make any difference what controller you have installed.

Actually, it makes a big difference what controller you have installed.. however your Tekonsha RF brake controller is similar to the Autobrake unit and wiring will be about the same. So your example should be very helpful. Too bad you can't stop by and hook it up for the OP ;)

These "wireless" controllers are not nearly as common as hard wired ones, and installing a hard wired one is very different.

MJo 05-19-2021 04:39 PM

brake power
 
the controller was wired into the RV and I have a remote to work the controller to adjust the brakes to work with the carís brakes, not too soon or too late, so the RV doesnít top the car and the car doesnít stop the RV too soon. The problem is getting power to the controller. 12 volts. I ran my idea by Scamp and they were concerned that using the source in the back seat would not be enough power. they prefer connecting to the power post on the carís battery and adding a fuse.

sunnyone 05-19-2021 04:55 PM

We had a trailer supply and service business in our metro area wire our Tacoma with the 7 pin connector before we picked up our new Scamp with the Autow brakes. Is there a trailer service business near you that could do it?

gordon2 05-19-2021 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814665)
... I ran my idea by Scamp and they were concerned that using the source in the back seat would not be enough power. they prefer connecting to the power post on the carís battery and adding a fuse.

Gee.. why didnt I think of that? Oh wait.. I did.. and I suggested it THREE times. (except for using a 12 VDC breaker in place of a fuse). You have the info you need now from multiple sources. Get er done.

MJo 05-19-2021 06:14 PM

electric brakes
 
This is my first time dealing with the carís wiring. I have some experience with cars, I had a 62 Chevrolet, great car !!! I changed the oil, spark plugs, lamps, but havenít dealt with the battery except to put one in when that one was stolen. So I need a wire, what gauge? and a fuse or ďVDC 12 volt breakerĒ and hook that up to the positive post on the carís battery, (under the hood, I know) and have the wire long enough so it will reach, under the car, away from the muffler that gets hot, to the part I have which has a 4 pin connector and the black wire for power to the controller and a white wire (ground) to put on the frame. and the blue wire goes somewhere too. once they are all connected, if they service the same parts that the matching colors on the Scamp plug service, Iím ok. BUT if they donít, then Iíll have to figure it out, I guess by just seeing what works after itís put together. I got a gadget that tests the 7 pin plugs. I would also have a ďbuddy wireĒ to accompany the power wire and support it while it passes under and over projections under the car. What am I saying that is wrong? this is what I think youíve been saying. or is it?

Bing M. 05-20-2021 07:46 PM

Power to brakes
 
Run the power directly from the positive battery post to the plug in the rear of the car. DO NOT use a fuse in this line! Use a auto-resetting circuit breaker. If you use a fuse and it blows you are out of brakes. With a circuit breaker at least it will reset and give you a second of brakes when it resets, better than none at all. Place the breaker close to the battery, this way it protects the entire wire run from a short.
On my better 2/3's 2001 V70 Volvo the battery is under the floor of the rear compartment. Made running wiring a easy-peasy job. Good luck and enjoy your camping adventures! :cblob:banana:cblob

John in Santa Cruz 05-20-2021 09:23 PM

For that battery power wire, I would use AWG 10 gauge wiring and a 40 amp auto-breaker. I like adding a relay, rated for at least 50-60 amps, wired like...

relay pin 30 to the output of the 40 amp breaker
relay pin 87 to the AWG 10 wire to the 7 blade 'power' pin 4 (usually red on the vehicle side)
relay pin 85 to ground, can use a relatively thin wire like AWG 18
relay pin 86 to a switched power source on the vehicle under the hood, this is often known as 'circuit 15' on european cars, its on when the ignition is on, and off when its not, this also can use a relatively thin wire like AWG 18.

the pin 86 to 85 is the 'coil' circuit of the relay, that turns on the power circuit of 30 to 87. these relay pin numbers are the european numbers, used on Bosch "VW" relays and similar.

this relays function is to shut off vehicle power to the trailer when the vehicle is off, so the trailer doesn't run down your vehicle battery when you stop. when you are driving, this will charge your trailers battery as well as supply power to the RF brake controller.

also be sure the 7 blade connector 'ground' pin 1 is wired to vehicle chassis ground with at least AWG 10 wiring.

MJo 05-21-2021 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bing M. (Post 814770)
Run the power directly from the positive battery post to the plug in the rear of the car. DO NOT use a fuse in this line! Use a auto-resetting circuit breaker. If you use a fuse and it blows you are out of brakes. With a circuit breaker at least it will reset and give you a second of brakes when it resets, better than none at all. Place the breaker close to the battery, this way it protects the entire wire run from a short.
On my better 2/3's 2001 V70 Volvo the battery is under the floor of the rear compartment. Made running wiring a easy-peasy job. Good luck and enjoy your camping adventures! :cblob:banana:cblob

The battery of my 2004 XC-70 is under the hood to the right of the engine so I have to run the battery the length of the car. Where do I buy a auto-resetting circuit breaker and does it have to be the same gauge as the wire? Or does it come in sizes? thanks for replying.

MJo 05-21-2021 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 814778)
For that battery power wire, I would use AWG 10 gauge wiring and a 40 amp auto-breaker. I like adding a relay, rated for at least 50-60 amps, wired like...

relay pin 30 to the output of the 40 amp breaker
relay pin 87 to the AWG 10 wire to the 7 blade 'power' pin 4 (usually red on the vehicle side)
relay pin 85 to ground, can use a relatively thin wire like AWG 18
relay pin 86 to a switched power source on the vehicle under the hood, this is often known as 'circuit 15' on european cars, its on when the ignition is on, and off when its not, this also can use a relatively thin wire like AWG 18.

the pin 86 to 85 is the 'coil' circuit of the relay, that turns on the power circuit of 30 to 87. these relay pin numbers are the european numbers, used on Bosch "VW" relays and similar.

this relays function is to shut off vehicle power to the trailer when the vehicle is off, so the trailer doesn't run down your vehicle battery when you stop. when you are driving, this will charge your trailers battery as well as supply power to the RF brake controller.

also be sure the 7 blade connector 'ground' pin 1 is wired to vehicle chassis ground with at least AWG 10 wiring.

Your answer is intriguing. I don't think I have pins 86, 85 and power circuits 30 and 87 but anyway, if I had the parts you are mentioning, it would be fun to hook everything up and it sounds like doing so would prevent problems, I just don't think I have the resources. but, I do like a challenge. But thank you for taking the time to add a suggestion to my query. Take care.

gordon2 05-21-2021 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814805)
The battery of my 2004 XC-70 is under the hood to the right of the engine so I have to run the battery the length of the car. Where do I buy a auto-resetting circuit breaker and does it have to be the same gauge as the wire? Or does it come in sizes? thanks for replying.

Thomas has already pointed you to e-trailer.. they will have everything you need. But your questions still have me convienced that you need to find a shop (U=Haul, etc) to wire your 4 to 7 pin adapter and brake power from the Volvo's battery (and an optional charge line if you want one).
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasC (Post 814588)
...

Etrailer has a lot of info if you want to poke around. ...
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Bra...leID=200482891


MJo 05-21-2021 06:21 AM

Thanks for getting back to me. Yes, I've been to ETrailer and got the part that takes the 4 pin to the 7 pin with the additional wires. And they have videos, etc. Thanks for your explanations, being an old nurse, I am very cautious with my car as I always was with my patients. As far as I know, I never lost one (a patient, I mean) and I won't lose my old Volvo I've had for 17 years and 260,000 miles. Thanks again, MJo

MJo 05-21-2021 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon2 (Post 814679)
Gee.. why didnt I think of that? Oh wait.. I did.. and I suggested it THREE times. (except for using a 12 VDC breaker in place of a fuse). You have the info you need now from multiple sources. Get er done.

Yes, I think so, I have lots of suggestions and out of that, I think I have the 1 or 2 which I need to 'hook er up' and 'take er on.' the excess gave me lots of reassurance that I understood. thanks.

John in Santa Cruz 05-21-2021 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814806)
Your answer is intriguing. I don't think I have pins 86, 85 and power circuits 30 and 87 but anyway, if I had the parts you are mentioning, it would be fun to hook everything up and it sounds like doing so would prevent problems, I just don't think I have the resources. but, I do like a challenge. But thank you for taking the time to add a suggestion to my query. Take care.

those are the pin numbers on a standard Bosch style automotive relay.


re: the auto-resetting circuit breaker,
https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-CBC-.../dp/B001PTBVL2

this should be quite close to the battery (or to the 'positive terminal' your car likely has somewhere under the hood which is tied directly to the battery (+) and has lots of red wires coming off it)

you would crimp ring terminals onto the ends of the wires, sized for your wire gauge and the 10-32 studs terminals (eg, a 1/4" hole in the ring terminal would fit nicely on the 3/16" stud, and a yellow crimp connector is sized for AWG 10-12 wire). I like to use the marine crimps that have heat shrunk insulation, you hit them with a hot air gun after crimping, and they seal around the wires.

yeah, I have to second the motion, you need to find someone familiar with vehicle and trailer wiring to do this job properly, its quite simple for someone with that experience. and yes, the wire would run the length of the car, it could be run through the firewall (there's nearly always a rubber plug that has nipples you can run extra wires through), under the edge of the carpet along the door sills, then through the trunk, and back out to the 7 blade, or it could be run entirely underneath the car, tucking it up out of hte way and secured snuggly so it can't get anywhere near any moving parts or the exhaust system.

AlanKilian 05-21-2021 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814805)
The battery of my 2004 XC-70 is under the hood to the right of the engine so I have to run the battery the length of the car.

Are you sure it's in the front?

My 2004 V70 battery is in the rear as is the 2004 XC-70 Cross Country.

How to replace the battery in Volvo S60, V70, XC70, S80, XC90

John in Santa Cruz 05-21-2021 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanKilian (Post 814864)
Are you sure it's in the front?

My 2004 V70 battery is in the rear as is the 2004 XC-70 Cross Country.

How to replace the battery in Volvo S60, V70, XC70, S80, XC90

on the positive battery terminal, where does that 2nd thickest red wire go, the one thats in the split loom? on most/many vehicles that would go to what I referred to as the 'positive terminal' which is a positive bus bar that lots of OTHER + circuits come from, and would be a very good place to tap 40-50A trailer power if its in the back. if that wire runs all the way to the engine compartment, then not so much. the *thickest* red wire undoubtably runs directly to the starter solenoid, and then on to the alternator.

if you DO attach this AWG10 wire directly to the battery terminal, pay attention to how you route it such that the battery terminal can be removed from the battery (to change said battery) without having to separately remove your extra wire first.



edit: ooooh, i still have the parts catalog for all volvos up to 2005 (I owned a series of late 80s, early 90s volvos).... hmmm, hard to tell from parts but it looks like that wire might just go directly to the main fuse box under the hood, oh well. sadly, I only have wiring diagrams for 240s and 940/960s (which were the models I owned)

https://photos.smugmug.com/By-Date/2...MG_0746-X2.jpg
my last volvo, a 1992 740 Turbo wagon, over 260,000 miles when I sold it still running great

AlanKilian 05-21-2021 02:01 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 814866)
on the positive battery terminal, where does that 2nd thickest red wire go, the one thats in the split loom? on most/many vehicles that would go to what I referred to as the 'positive terminal' which is a positive bus bar that lots of OTHER + circuits come from, and would be a very good place to tap 40-50A trailer power if its in the back.

Right on John!

I just pulled my battery cover off and indeed, that's just what is at the end of the smaller of the two red cables.

Thanks for letting me know. (I already added a ring-terminal to the positive post for my brakes, and we're getting a new car in a month, so I probably won't update my wiring.)

MJo 05-21-2021 03:14 PM

electric brakes
 
Oh !!!! I HATE to be wrong about something so basic as where the battery is, in a car Iíve had for 17 years!!!! But, whoever said itís in the back, next to the spare tire, was correct. I went out and looked. that makes it so much easier to access power to actuate the controller in the Scamp so it can work the brakes. so much easier. I think I wonít have a problem now. Just have to get the circuit breaker and connecters and wire. One of my former husbands was an inventor, had a machine shop, made the laminator Polaroid used to test the seals in the film so it didnít separate too hard or too easily, had lost a lot of $$ at one point when the film tore instead of separating from the paper. I did on the road sales for our coolant filtration systems but I also worked in the shop and I have the crimpers and things for the wire. Iíll read everything again, to be sure I have what I need and how to do it. Scamp service is a good resource also. thanks guys, you were right.

MJo 05-21-2021 04:00 PM

electric brake wiring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bing M. (Post 814770)
Run the power directly from the positive battery post to the plug in the rear of the car. DO NOT use a fuse in this line! Use a auto-resetting circuit breaker. If you use a fuse and it blows you are out of brakes. With a circuit breaker at least it will reset and give you a second of brakes when it resets, better than none at all. Place the breaker close to the battery, this way it protects the entire wire run from a short.
On my better 2/3's 2001 V70 Volvo the battery is under the floor of the rear compartment. Made running wiring a easy-peasy job. Good luck and enjoy your camping adventures! :cblob:banana:cblob

looks like you and I are talking about the same car, Volvo. so, what size wire and what amp circuit breaker? can you walk me through it? battery > circuit breaker > wire > 7 pin connecter. correct? so I need circuit breaker of the correct amperage and correct wire and connecters to attach to the wire to attach it to the parts. You were correct, battery in the back next to the spare tire.

AlanKilian 05-21-2021 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814888)
I think I wonít have a problem now.

I live in Cambridge, so if you're close, and are comfortable, I'd be happy to help you do the wiring. Everyone in our house if fully vaccinated, but I'd be happy to wear a mask if you like.

Either at my house, your house, or in the parking lot of The Artisan's Asylum in Somerville. I'm a member there and I can use all the tools/wire/connectors etc.

Send me a message if you think this is the way to go.

MJo 05-21-2021 04:20 PM

electric b
 
That’s very generous of you.. I’m in East Falmouth, on the Cape, so maybe I’ll get the parts if you can tell me what I need, and lay it out and then go from there. It’s a long drive for me up to Cambridge. (once you live on the Cape, going across the bridge seems like going to a foreign country!) I used to live in Brookline when I was a graduate student at BU and later taught at B.C. I’m sure everything has changed a lot. I went to Joyce Chen’s Chinese Restaurant back then. In the mid-60’s. Cambridge used to be a ‘challenge’ to drive in, I’m sure it’s much worse now.
I really appreciate your offer to help. I’ve been searching for a qualified shop to do it and I get the same answers, “Volvo, no!”. and “RV wiring for a controller? No!”. Even tho I tell them, I just need 12 volt to the cable that goes to the RV from the car. Same story over and over. Thank you so much. I’ll take you up on the offer if the offer still holds. Whew !!!! what a relief !!!! thank you so much.

MJo 05-21-2021 04:25 PM

electric brakes
 
there are in-line circuit breakers on Amazon of various voltages by Bussman? and others

AlanKilian 05-21-2021 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814897)
Iím in East Falmouth, on the Cape

If only we hadn't sold our place in Dennis two years ago, it would have worked.

I think this group can get you the information you need to have almost any local automotive garage do the wiring for you.

You say that you have a 4-pin trailer wiring harness currently installed right?
If so, that would be awesome since you only need to connect three more wires.

Ground (a second ground)
+12 Volts
Brake signal.

I have a thing installed that takes all these signals and has the four-pin coming out of it, so it was VERY simple for me to get the seven-pin working.

Let us know and we'll get you there.

MJo 05-21-2021 05:25 PM

electric brakes
 
I also bought a part to attach to my 4 pin on the car. The part accepts the 4 pin and has a cable with 5 wires, Iíd have to go get it but if I remember correctly, it has a black wire (power to the controller), yellow wire (accessory), white wire, (ground) and blue wire (controller). Iíll look for the email I got from Scamp, the service manager said what I need. I have the picture of the Scampís 7 wire connector, just have to make sure that on the 7 wire connector I have, the colors go the same places. I got a gadget to plug the connector into that will tell me which leads are working. The part I bought may be similar to what you have to adapt the 4 pin to the 7 pin.

MJo 05-21-2021 05:30 PM

electric brakes
 
So, the Scamp has the Autowbrake? I listened to the video, am I correct that I can use the brake lights on my car as the power source? I don’t have to run a wire to the battery in the engine compartment to obtain power? Do I need to add a fuse between the brake connector and the brake light wire? and is the wire 10 gauge? can you walk me through the process? I can access the brake lights, I have changed the bulbs a few times.

From my iPad Air

On May 18, 2021, at 4:07 PM, Parts Department <parts@scamptrailers.com> wrote:

Hi Mary

It is fairly straightforward to wire up. You will need the 12v and ground the blue and yellow wires can be ignored as the controller is in your trailer and not in the car.

Best Regards,
Parts Dept.
Eric

MJo 05-21-2021 05:39 PM

[QUOTE=MJo;814909]So, the Scamp has the Autowbrake? I listened to the video, am I correct that I can use the brake lights on my car as the power source? I donít have to run a wire to the battery in the engine compartment to obtain power? Do I need to add a fuse between the brake connector and the brake light wire? and is the wire 10 gauge? can you walk me through the process? I can access the brake lights, I have changed the bulbs a few times.

From my iPad Air

On May 18, 2021, at 4:07 PM, Parts Department <parts@scamptrailers.com> wrote:

Hi Mary

It is fairly straightforward to wire up. You will need the 12v and ground the blue and yellow wires can be ignored as the controller is in your trailer and not in the car.

Best Regards,
Parts Dept.
Eric

John in Santa Cruz 05-21-2021 05:57 PM

no, your lighting circuits most certainly can NOT power the brakes. the RF brake controller looks at the light signals on the trailer connector (which come from your 4-pin to the 7 pin adapter), and uses that to decide WHEN to brake, and it gets the braking power from the pin we previously mentioned.

I suggest a 50 amp Bussman auto-resetting breaker like I already linked on amazon. (don't get a chinese noname breaker, I know amazon sells a ton of those). and as I said, AWG10 COPPER (not aluminum, not copper plated) straned wire is sufficient for 50 amps max for this short run, regardless of what that generic wiring table posted early says.

MJo 05-21-2021 06:09 PM

electric brakes
 
that is an email before I got a lot of the posts. I Do Not intend to use the brake lights, I am going to go to the positive on the battery and use a circuit breaker. I did see an inline circuit breaker that looked easy but I wonít use it, I know about Amazon and chinese products, I avoid them if I can. I avoid Amazon when I can get what I want locally, I like to do business with local people because times have been difficult for them. Amazon is making money off of the covid situation as is Walmart. I wonít use the brake lights, I heard what everyone said about that. Now that I know the battery is in the trunk, I wonít have any problem hooking up to the battery. If I had had to go through the fire wall, I could have done that. And I either do it myself or do without. Contrary to popular belief, there is NO garage around here that will do the wiring, I have approached them all. And there is no reason why I canít do it. And I want to do it. So.

MJo 05-21-2021 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 814914)
no, your lighting circuits most certainly can NOT power the brakes. the RF brake controller looks at the light signals on the trailer connector (which come from your 4-pin to the 7 pin adapter), and uses that to decide WHEN to brake, and it gets the braking power from the pin we previously mentioned.

I suggest a 50 amp Bussman auto-resetting breaker like I already linked on amazon. (don't get a chinese noname breaker, I know amazon sells a ton of those). and as I said, AWG10 COPPER (not aluminum, not copper plated) straned wire is sufficient for 50 amps max for this short run, regardless of what that generic wiring table posted early says.

is this the correct copper wire? and what fasteners do you suggest to put on the wire ends to attach to the battery post and the wires coming from the 7 connector?

BNTECHGO 10 Gauge Silicone Wire 5 ft red and 5 ft Black Flexible 10 AWG Stranded Copper Wire.

John in Santa Cruz 05-21-2021 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814923)
is this the correct copper wire? and what fasteners do you suggest to put on the wire ends to attach to the battery post and the wires coming from the 7 connector?

BNTECHGO 10 Gauge Silicone Wire 5 ft red and 5 ft Black Flexible 10 AWG Stranded Copper Wire.

That sounds like Chinese wire, and is probably junk. silicone wire is usually used for loud speakers, it does have good heat resistance but its quite soft and easily cut/nicked. The chinese wire is often way under its rated gauge, and/or has non-copper in it to bulk it up, as pure copper is expensive.

I would visit a local non-big-chain auto parts store, like a Napa or whatever, and ask the parts counter for a few feet of AWG 10 stranded copper.

re fasteners, the pictures I saw, looks like the Volvo positive battery terminal has a stud on it, I would measure the outer diameter of the stud (not the nut), and get a 'yellow' crimp on ring terminal with a hole slightly larger. the Bussman 50A breaker I posted had 3/16" studs, so you want ring terminals with 1/4" holes for that, and I do not know whats on hte back of your 7 blade socket, does it have pigtails or screw terminals? if screw terminals, measure the screw and get a ring or U crimp, yellow again for the AWG10 wire, of a suitable size to fit that screw. if it has a pigtail, hopefully its 10 or 12 AWG, so you can use a yellow barrel inline crimp.

I prefer the marine crimps that have shrink wrap insulation with thermal adhesive inside, you crimp these on the wires with a standard crimper on the yellow notch, then use a hot air gun (or a hair dryer on high) to heat the insulation until it shrinks tight on the wire, let it cool, and this shrink stuff forms a water tight seal.

this is probably every crimp you'll need for years :D
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-So.../dp/B01D3B4QHU

(yes those are 'generic' chinese, but I have a similar kit and they work well enough).

MJo 05-22-2021 06:02 AM

electric brakes
 
thanks for all the details. the part I purchased to join to the RVís 7 is actually very well made. the ends of the yellow, white, black and blue of the pigtail are metal tubes which are ready to slide the wires in from the car side and crimp them. on the outside are plastic sleeves to shrink-wrap them. the white ground is fitted with a 3/8thís in. ring to bolt on to the carís frame. Eric at Scamp said to forget the yellow and blue, all I need once I plug in the 4 pin flat connecter from the Scamp is the black for 12v and the white ground. There is a NAPA here and our local quality auto parts store, Orleans Auto. Now I have to open up the heavy plastic box that holds the battery and see what the challenge is there. Iíll see what the posts look like and how much clearance there is for a circuit breaker. Thanks for putting up with my questions and answering in usable detail. Itís the next best thing to having help at my elbow.

MJo 05-22-2021 06:13 AM

electric brakes
 
this is the 4 to 7 adapter I purchased on Amazon.

RVGUARD 4 Flat to 7 Way Blade Trailer Adapter Electrical Connector with Connector Socket Mounting Bracket for RV, Truck, Car

ThomasC 05-22-2021 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814948)
thanks for all the details. the part I purchased to join to the RVís 7 is actually very well made. the ends of the yellow, white, black and blue of the pigtail are metal tubes which are ready to slide the wires in from the car side and crimp them. on the outside are plastic sleeves to shrink-wrap them. the white ground is fitted with a 3/8thís in. ring to bolt on to the carís frame. Eric at Scamp said to forget the yellow and blue, all I need once I plug in the 4 pin flat connecter from the Scamp is the black for 12v and the white ground. There is a NAPA here and our local quality auto parts store, Orleans Auto. Now I have to open up the heavy plastic box that holds the battery and see what the challenge is there. Iíll see what the posts look like and how much clearance there is for a circuit breaker. Thanks for putting up with my questions and answering in usable detail. Itís the next best thing to having help at my elbow.

I am not familiar with your car. I worked on older Volvos but usually when you are in the rear spare tire area you may find a rubber plug separating the inside from the outside. That may be a nice spot to run your wire.

MJo 05-22-2021 07:23 AM

electric brakes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasC (Post 814950)
I am not familiar with your car. I worked on older Volvos but usually when you are in the rear spare tire area you may find a rubber plug separating the inside from the outside. That may be a nice spot to run your wire.

Thanks, itís good to know.

AlanKilian 05-22-2021 09:16 AM

I'm reading that note from Scamp about only needing to hook up power and ground, and then reading the information from Autowbrake about their wiring, and it seems to me that indeed, the Autowbrake does not use the brake signal from the car.

https://getautowbrake.com/pages/installation
https://taxaoutdoors.com/wp-content/...ion-Manual.pdf

So, I <think> the autowbrake uses the left and right turn signal wires to decide when to start breaking.

Can anyone else back me up and read the mess of Autowbrake wiring instructions and see if this is true?

MJo 05-22-2021 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 814943)
That sounds like Chinese wire, and is probably junk. silicone wire is usually used for loud speakers, it does have good heat resistance but its quite soft and easily cut/nicked. The chinese wire is often way under its rated gauge, and/or has non-copper in it to bulk it up, as pure copper is expensive.

I would visit a local non-big-chain auto parts store, like a Napa or whatever, and ask the parts counter for a few feet of AWG 10 stranded copper.

re fasteners, the pictures I saw, looks like the Volvo positive battery terminal has a stud on it, I would measure the outer diameter of the stud (not the nut), and get a 'yellow' crimp on ring terminal with a hole slightly larger. the Bussman 50A breaker I posted had 3/16" studs, so you want ring terminals with 1/4" holes for that, and I do not know whats on hte back of your 7 blade socket, does it have pigtails or screw terminals? if screw terminals, measure the screw and get a ring or U crimp, yellow again for the AWG10 wire, of a suitable size to fit that screw. if it has a pigtail, hopefully its 10 or 12 AWG, so you can use a yellow barrel inline crimp.

I prefer the marine crimps that have shrink wrap insulation with thermal adhesive inside, you crimp these on the wires with a standard crimper on the yellow notch, then use a hot air gun (or a hair dryer on high) to heat the insulation until it shrinks tight on the wire, let it cool, and this shrink stuff forms a water tight seal.

this is probably every crimp you'll need for years :D
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-So.../dp/B01D3B4QHU

(yes those are 'generic' chinese, but I have a similar kit and they work well enough).

Iím at the battery I know to remove the negativeblack first. The posts look to be about 5/8 in dia. Also luckily there is a hole in the bottom of the trunk thru which Volvo threaded the cable to the 4 pin connector.
Now the big step, can I take unshielded pliers and take the negative off and then the positive? Iím leery of electrical I have no experience with, Iíve been zapped a few times.

John in Santa Cruz 05-22-2021 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814966)
Iím at the battery I know to remove the negativeblack first. The posts look to be about 5/8 in dia. Also luckily there is a hole in the bottom of the trunk thru which Volvo threaded the cable to the 4 pin connector.
Now the big step, can I take unshielded pliers and take the negative off and then the positive? Iím leery of electrical I have no experience with, Iíve been zapped a few times.

I would use a 10mm wrench, not pliers. while unfastening the ground, be careful the tool doesn't touch the (+) terminal. once the ground cable is disconnected, and positioned so it can't accidentally touch the batteries ground post, then remove the nut thats on TOP of the + terminal, where the thinner wire comes from, and stack your new wire's ring terminal on that. you don't need to disconnect the + terminal from the battery to do this, in fact it might be easier if you don't. Once everything is wired up, replace the battery ground, and you'll probably need to reset your favorite stereo stations and the clock. if that car has driving style adaptation, it might take a half day to return to conditioning for your personal driving style (many cars, if you drive like the proverbial 'little old lady', they adapt to that and favor smooth, while if you drive aggressively, they adapt to /that/ and shift at higher RPMs and other such things to make the car sportier).

MJo 05-22-2021 07:16 PM

electric brakes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 814967)
I would use a 10mm wrench, not pliers. while unfastening the ground, be careful the tool doesn't touch the (+) terminal. once the ground cable is disconnected, and positioned so it can't accidentally touch the batteries ground post, then remove the nut thats on TOP of the + terminal, where the thinner wire comes from, and stack your new wire's ring terminal on that. you don't need to disconnect the + terminal from the battery to do this, in fact it might be easier if you don't. Once everything is wired up, replace the battery ground, and you'll probably need to reset your favorite stereo stations and the clock. if that car has driving style adaptation, it might take a half day to return to conditioning for your personal driving style (many cars, if you drive like the proverbial 'little old lady', they adapt to that and favor smooth, while if you drive aggressively, they adapt to /that/ and shift at higher RPMs and other such things to make the car sportier).

NAPA auto parts men were very helpful, no guff about putting the thing together to go from 4>7, took it as a matter of course, had everything. I donít do anything like the ďproverbial old lady.Ē For the past 30 years, Iíve been working alongside people my sonsí ages, 40-60 year olds, so Iím a weird cross between old and decrepit and middle aged. You should get and read the book, ďYounger Next Year.Ē. seriously, really seriously. You will be glad you did. let me know.

John in Santa Cruz 05-23-2021 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 815021)
NAPA auto parts men were very helpful, no guff about putting the thing together to go from 4>7, took it as a matter of course, had everything. I donít do anything like the ďproverbial old lady.Ē For the past 30 years, Iíve been working alongside people my sonsí ages, 40-60 year olds, so Iím a weird cross between old and decrepit and middle aged. You should get and read the book, ďYounger Next Year.Ē. seriously, really seriously. You will be glad you did. let me know.

hey, I'm only 66 right now. thats not 'old', is it? I refuse to accept that.

MJo 05-23-2021 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 815042)
hey, I'm only 66 right now. thats not 'old', is it? I refuse to accept that.

I didn’t say that. The book’s title is for anyone. Take a look. You might learn something. I did. The men’s version was written first by 2 men, a doctor and his patient. It’s my gift to you for helping me. Later they did one in pink for women.

Glenn Baglo 05-23-2021 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 815043)
Later they did one in pink for women.


Really? Like a pink Barbie RV?

MJo 05-23-2021 10:35 AM

YES, pink for women, and the first one that was written, for men, is yellow. Get it and read it, you'll benefit. It has a lot of good information and some interesting theories. Written by a prominent NY internist and one of his patients, alternate chapters. I've given it out to a lot of people and when I gave one to my physical therapist, who owns a large physical therapy business on the Cape, he said he already had read it and given it out to people. both were written by the 2 men but I was surprised at how different they were in ways you would expect them to be different.
By the way, You never have researched and told us where the hole in the cheese went.

parmm 05-23-2021 10:38 AM

Mary Jo, two ideas.

1. The Car Guys (NPR radio show guys, Click and Clack the Tappet Brothers) had a garage, "The Good News Garage" at 75 Hamilton Street, Cambridge MA. They retired, but hopefully the garage is being operated like the Car Guys set it up. They specialized in foreign cars. They knew all the tricks of the trade. Quit the Volvo dealer and take it to the Car Guy's garage.


2. Go to a trailer dealer. They know all about how to hook up brake systems to operate the trailers brakes. Do not take it to a RV dealer unless you can find a 5 star one, and they are few and far between!!!

MJo 05-23-2021 10:51 AM

electric brakes
 
Thank you the suggestion. But finally, I just went back and looked at what the Scamp service manager told me and John from Santa Cruz finally accepted that I was going to do it, "Come hell or high water" and he has worked on it with me and suggested Napa auto parts to get the parts. I have attached the 7 pin with a circuit breaker to the wire and now I only have to go out to my car and attach the wire to the battery. In the middle of all this, I found out how my Scamp 4 pin is connected and saw that I am going to be able to put all the connected parts inside the trunk next to the battery with only the 7 pin connector on the outside. Then all I have to do is test it. But if I had known about Frick and Frack, I probably would have tried them although one of the men who answered my query recently offered to help and he lives in Cambridge also. thanks again.

MJo 05-24-2021 07:18 AM

John I’m all connected with the 10 wire connected to the 7 pin on one end and the circuit breaker on the other. Now do I disconnect the ground from the battery, connect the wire with the circuit breaker to red and then reconnect the ground? I am trying to avoid getting zapped.
Do I disconnect black post on battery first? Then 7 pin > circuit breaker > red post on battery? Do I reconnect the black on the battery last?

John in Santa Cruz 05-24-2021 11:28 AM

yeah, disconnect the black ground wire at the battery before messing with any wiring, and reconnect it when everything is installed and buttoned up and no plus wires are just hanging out waiting to short.

MJo 05-24-2021 11:52 AM

Thank you, now all I have to do is put on the license plate, check the tires, take it off of the jacks and hook it up. Thank you so much for your help. Get the book yet?

John in Santa Cruz 05-24-2021 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 815157)
Get the book yet?

Elderly health advice from a guy who died at 58? I'm not big on "self help" books, anyways.

John in Santa Cruz 05-24-2021 12:44 PM

oh, so now that you've got the tow vehicle power connected, since there's no shutoff relay in the circuit, be sure to unplug the trailer cord from the tow vehicle when you park for more than about an hour (eg, a meal stop is OK, but a half day break, probably not). And of course, be sure to plug the trailer back in when you get on the road again.

The risk is, the trailer could drain your vehicle battery, leaving you stranded.

The relay I previously described would be wired into this AWG10 wire, but the control signal for the relay would have to come from somewhere in the front of the car, as you need a signal thats on when the engine is running but off otherwise, in european cars this is known as 'circuit 15' (circuit 30 is direct battery power, always on). I do not know of anything off hand that would be in the back of the car connected to 15, you'd have to find it under the dash, or in the engine compartment. wait, you said there's a cigar lighter power outlet in the back? IF this cigar outlet is ONLY on when the ignition is on, then you could use the power wire to it as your control circuit, but if its always-on, thats no good.

MJo 05-25-2021 01:57 PM

The outlet in the back seat is only on when the cars on.

MJo 05-25-2021 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 815161)
Elderly health advice from a guy who died at 58? I'm not big on "self help" books, anyways.

Dr lodge died of prostate cancer. Too bad you’re not reading the book, it’s educational but it’s also entertaining. I owe my good health partly to ideas I got from the book.
My sons are your age, so you’re in good company, they don’t listen to me either

AlanKilian 05-25-2021 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 815297)
Dr lodge died of prostate cancer. Too bad youíre not reading the book, itís educational but itís also entertaining.

You convinced me to get the book.

I'm 57 and last year I had to have my prostate removed due to cancer.
Without early PSA tests ordered by my doctors I would have never known about it, and probably would have died at the same age as Dr. Lodge.

An incredible surgeon and nurses left me with a new life that I'm taking advantage of, and your recommendation might help me get more healthy.

Thank you.

MJo 05-26-2021 07:16 AM

electric brakes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 815166)
oh, so now that you've got the tow vehicle power connected, since there's no shutoff relay in the circuit, be sure to unplug the trailer cord from the tow vehicle when you park for more than about an hour (eg, a meal stop is OK, but a half day break, probably not). And of course, be sure to plug the trailer back in when you get on the road again.

The risk is, the trailer could drain your vehicle battery, leaving you stranded.

The relay I previously described would be wired into this AWG10 wire, but the control signal for the relay would have to come from somewhere in the front of the car, as you need a signal thats on when the engine is running but off otherwise, in european cars this is known as 'circuit 15' (circuit 30 is direct battery power, always on). I do not know of anything off hand that would be in the back of the car connected to 15, you'd have to find it under the dash, or in the engine compartment. wait, you said there's a cigar lighter power outlet in the back? IF this cigar outlet is ONLY on when the ignition is on, then you could use the power wire to it as your control circuit, but if its always-on, thats no good.

I checked with Scamp and you are right again!! Have you installed a surge protector in your RV? I am about to buy an external one to use at the power post at the camp but I would prefer installing one in my Scamp so it would automatically protect and wouldnít be stolen. Any thoughts?

John in Santa Cruz 05-26-2021 07:29 AM

My Escape has a Progressive EMS built in, with a remote display above the fridge, and next to the water display/controls (pump switch, level display and test switch).

The EMS is more than just a surge protector, it first verifies the outlet is wired correctly (hot, neutral, ground), then tests the voltage for several seconds before turning the AC power on to the trailer. voltage too high or too low, or a bad ground, will cause it to shut off (or never turn on).

MJo 05-26-2021 07:39 AM

in line surge protector,
John, I was thinking of something like this,

Surge Guard 35530 Hardwire Model - 30 Amp on Amazon, Iíd want to connect it where the 30 amp electric cable from the Scamp connects to the Scamp and connect the cable on the outer side of the surge protector. and have all within the Scamp to protect from ďinquiring hands,Ē and the weather.

gordon2 05-26-2021 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 815377)
I checked with Scamp and you are right again!!

That implies that Scamp (Eveland, Inc) is correct.. and that is often not the case. Present discussion excluded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 815377)
Have you installed a surge protector in your RV? I am about to buy an external one to use at the power post at the camp but I would prefer installing one in my Scamp so it would automatically protect and wouldn’t be stolen. Any thoughts?

Use this portable version. It takes a lock to reduce risk of theft. If you get the hardwired one then you have to deal with modifications to the 120 volt AC system and thats more involved and critical than low voltage (12 VDC) wiring. While the hardwired one can be bypassed it remains in the circuit and failure of the contactor (relay) can leave you with no power. With the portable one if it has a problem, you just check the outlet with your outlet tester and if it shows OK then plug in without the protection (which is mostly for A/C or control boards).

John in Santa Cruz 05-26-2021 08:06 AM

that plug adapter ONLY checks for live/hot/ground wiring faults, it does NOT test for over/under voltages NOR does it have any sort of actual surge protection

this is the EMS on my Escape,
https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw30c

yes, to connect a hard wired EMS like this, you would need to modify the 120VAC wiring in the trailer, disconnecting power cord from the main breaker panel, and connecting the power cord instead to the input side of the EMS, then using a new short length of 10/3 wiring to connect from the output side of the EMS to where the power cord was originally connected. as long as you do this with the trailer power unplugged, and you are careful to connect things correctly, there's no hazard there. if you've done any household wiring, its pretty much the same thing.

MJo 05-26-2021 08:15 AM

I may wait on this. Hopefully the KOA Iím going to next weekend will be ok. It seems like the way to go. Thanks for taking the time to explain. MJo

MJo 05-26-2021 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 815390)
that plug adapter ONLY checks for live/hot/ground wiring faults, it does NOT test for over/under voltages NOR does it have any sort of actual surge protection

this is the EMS on my Escape,
https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw30c

yes, to connect a hard wired EMS like this, you would need to modify the 120VAC wiring in the trailer, disconnecting power cord from the main breaker panel, and connecting the power cord instead to the input side of the EMS, then using a new short length of 10/3 wiring to connect from the output side of the EMS to where the power cord was originally connected. as long as you do this with the trailer power unplugged, and you are careful to connect things correctly, there's no hazard there. if you've done any household wiring, its pretty much the same thing.

found on amazon,

Progressive Industries 30 Amp Hardwired RV Electrical Management System Surge Protector With Remote Display (1 MIN), EMS-HW30C.

This will be my next project, might not do it this week, I have to locate the “main breaker panel”. shouldn’t be too difficult, just follow the power cord, connects under the right seat in the rear of the Scamp, next to the fresh water tank. I put a “tin cat” there to catch mice, if there were any. Gosh! I’m going to get a swelled head from being able to do all this stuff !!! Thanks again, for your help, I only check with Scamp to make sure they haven’t modified anything that I need to consider.

MJo 05-26-2021 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 815390)
that plug adapter ONLY checks for live/hot/ground wiring faults, it does NOT test for over/under voltages NOR does it have any sort of actual surge protection

this is the EMS on my Escape,
https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw30c

yes, to connect a hard wired EMS like this, you would need to modify the 120VAC wiring in the trailer, disconnecting power cord from the main breaker panel, and connecting the power cord instead to the input side of the EMS, then using a new short length of 10/3 wiring to connect from the output side of the EMS to where the power cord was originally connected. as long as you do this with the trailer power unplugged, and you are careful to connect things correctly, there's no hazard there. if you've done any household wiring, its pretty much the same thing.

I got it, arrives Saturday, Iíll be in touch. MJo. (will install Sat-Sun).

gordon2 05-26-2021 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 815390)
that plug adapter ONLY checks for live/hot/ground wiring faults, it does NOT test for over/under voltages NOR does it have any sort of actual surge protection...

I never meant to imply that the tester was a substitute for a EMS.. thats why I have the tester for when I first pull into a site AND also a hard wired Progressive Industries HW-30 for my stay there. The tester is very basic but better than nothing if you dont have a EMS or surge suppressor. An EMS is not needed if all you have is fans and lights. But if you have computer control boards, sensitive electronics, or A/C with compressor, protection from surges, low voltages, etc is worth the effort.

The most common issue I see are voltage drops which can damage a Air Conditioner. The second most common I have personally seen is the power pole catching fire.... https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/...ire-79837.html

MJo 05-28-2021 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 815390)
that plug adapter ONLY checks for live/hot/ground wiring faults, it does NOT test for over/under voltages NOR does it have any sort of actual surge protection

this is the EMS on my Escape,
https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw30c

yes, to connect a hard wired EMS like this, you would need to modify the 120VAC wiring in the trailer, disconnecting power cord from the main breaker panel, and connecting the power cord instead to the input side of the EMS, then using a new short length of 10/3 wiring to connect from the output side of the EMS to where the power cord was originally connected. as long as you do this with the trailer power unplugged, and you are careful to connect things correctly, there's no hazard there. if you've done any household wiring, its pretty much the same thing.

So lights, roof works but no clock, CD player.

MJo 05-29-2021 03:45 PM

electric brakes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 815390)
that plug adapter ONLY checks for live/hot/ground wiring faults, it does NOT test for over/under voltages NOR does it have any sort of actual surge protection

this is the EMS on my Escape,
https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw30c

yes, to connect a hard wired EMS like this, you would need to modify the 120VAC wiring in the trailer, disconnecting power cord from the main breaker panel, and connecting the power cord instead to the input side of the EMS, then using a new short length of 10/3 wiring to connect from the output side of the EMS to where the power cord was originally connected. as long as you do this with the trailer power unplugged, and you are careful to connect things correctly, there's no hazard there. if you've done any household wiring, its pretty much the same thing.

John, do you have any theory on why my clock and music system, cd player, radio, etc. donít work now that I connected the wire from the 7 to the battery? could it be that I blew a fuse? thatís easy enough to fix but unless I know why, it could just keep happening. My EMS came today, if no rain tomorrow, I may work on that unless the problem with the radio/cd/etc. is telling me something, like ďleave it alone.Ē. but car works, speedometer, lights, etc.
what do you think?

John in Santa Cruz 05-29-2021 06:37 PM

its not saying something like ENTER CODE, is it ?

flat out, nothing, completely blank display on the music system? is the clock a separate device, or is it on the radio/cd/etc display panel? certainly worth checking the fuses, likely two fuses for the radio, one for the radio memory and clock thats always powered, and another for the switched power that turns on when the ignition is ON or AUX (sometimes called circuit 15X on euro cars).

I only have wiring diagrams for volvo 940/960 and 240/260), so I don't know the specifics of your vehicle.

MJo 05-29-2021 07:10 PM

electric brakes
 
No, only getting a message that I need to replace a ďposition light.Ē. but thatís nothing new, since Iíve had the car, I think Iíve replaced every light. The time is shown at the bottom with the round indicator of the engineís ?revolutions, I donít know the terminology but like my carís gas consumption seems to be best around 25,000 revs, or is it 2500? I know it when I see it. Everything else works, car runs fine. Iím not desperate for the clock or radio. I do like to listen to my cdís (Brooks and somebody) but Iíll survive. Thanks for getting back to me, hope youíre having a nice Memorial Day weekend.

MJo 05-30-2021 06:25 PM

electric brakes
 
now the cd player works, only the time is out. Itís below the odometer in the same space. I opened the box on the ?EMS. looks a little intimidating. I would like to hook it up before I go to the KOA on Thursday.

MJo 06-01-2021 09:24 AM

Electric brakes
 
No. No one will put in my Volvo. So I did it. Now I need to install a surge protector, anyone installed on a Scamp 13í. ?

John in Santa Cruz 06-01-2021 01:29 PM

follow the AC power cord to where it terminates, there should be three wires, black (hot), white (neutral), and green (ground). disconnect it from where it goes, connect it to the input side of the EMS, and get a short piece of the same sort of 120 wire (any decent hardware store, or an electrical wholesaler will have this), and connect it where the power cord used to be and to the EMS output side. secure the EMS somewhree suitable, like behind the power panel.

MJo 06-01-2021 02:18 PM

electric brakes
 
I looked for help, again, in Falmouth. No luck. I did trace the origin of the power cord. It goes into a box under the rear right seat. The seat would have to be removed, but itís only held in by screws, with some sealant around the perimeter. I expect they made it so it could be accessed. You and NAPA are the only ones who help me. Elsewhere, all I get is, ďHire an electrician.Ē I say, ďFind me one and I will.Ē. so again either I do it or I do without. People like You are the spirit of this website, thank you. It does look tricky, there are wires going to other things. too bad you donít have access to it, who knows what could be done? Flying Scamp? Iíll take another look. Iíll read your instructions again and print them out so I can follow them step by step. Iím glad the wires are color coded, that makes it easier not to make a mistake. I looked at the wiring diagram for the Scamp but it wasnít made for people like me.

MJo 06-01-2021 02:26 PM

electric brakes
 
John, I looked at your instructions again. It reminded me of when I worked for my husbandís company, one of his products was portable industrial coolant machines. I went on the road in my little Oldsmobile Cutlass station wagon and demonstrated them. One of my customers was a company in Maine who made the huge rollers that fine paper used in printing the pictures for magazines like National Geographic. When I went there, the floor was covered with leaking coolant, so I stood in ďwater.Ē. There, the ground was green, I didnít know. Our machines used black for ground. I guess Canada uses green for ground. Anyway, I got a weak ďzapĒ I guess because I had rubber soled shoes on? I donít know, but it was an interesting experience.

MJo 06-01-2021 02:40 PM

electric brakes
 
John, the ďinput side of the EMSĒ. is that the side where the power cord, coming from the outside, enters ? Iím trying to think this thru. The EMS receives power from the outside, so the input side of the EMS will be the outside. like the ďtreesĒ side, not the inside the Scamp side. I have to keep going over it in my mind.

MJo 06-01-2021 03:22 PM

electric brakes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon2 (Post 814595)
Not the brake lights.. you would use the running lights for constant power instead of only when the brake lights were on. The Autobrake installation page even underlines and bolds that sentence:
Use running lights as direct 12-volt power source.

They also say this:
When using this option, you must have your vehicle lights turned manually to the on position, and not use the automatic light feature. You must also know if you fail to turn the tow vehicle lights on while towing you will also not have functioning trailer brakes.

What they don't say is how to tell if the lighting circuit can handle the additional power requirements or if the intermittent added power draw will cause the vehicle computer to show a fault. So there are many ways that using this method can fail.

As for the cigarette lighter idea.. these plugs are notorious for falling out, which would leave you with no trailer brakes. And you would need to run the wiring from the inside of the Volvo to the 7-pin or trailer on the outside. So you either drill a hole or pinch the wire under a door. If you make a hole, be sure to use a grommet to prevent abrading the wire's insulation and causing a short. If you run it on the door seal, the wire will probably break someday from being pinched repeatedly.

In both of the above scenarios, a blow fuse will leave you with no trailer brakes.

I really don't understand why you are reluctant to do the simplest and safest thing.. and this is the last time I will suggest it:

1. Add a 4 to 7 pin conversion.. see above post.
2. Add a short run of 10 gauge wire from the battery positive post to a self resetting circuit breaker in the engine compartment. The breaker will reset and restore your brake power on it's own if it suffers an overload, giving you time to get stopped and fix the overload.
2. From the breaker, run 10 gauge wire under the vehicle to the 7-pin. Secure the wire and keep it away from the exhaust system.

This way you make no holes in the car, don't pinch the wires, don't need to worry about fuses blowing, a plug falling out or computer faults. Safe, secure and simple to do. It does not alter the Volvo's electrical system at all and it can be removed in minutes when you get ready to trade the Volvo for another tow vehicle. If your new tow vehicle is fully pre-wired at the factory for towing then you avoid all this hassle.

If you like videos, see this one at one minute 30 seconds (1:30):
https://www.etrailer.com/tv-review-a...r-3430001.aspx

Or at 2:20 in this video:
https://www.etrailer.com/tv-Demo-Aut...r-3430001.aspx

You and John from Santa Cruz agreed so I did it. There was not need to make a hole in the car because Volvo had one they used to thread their 4 pin hitch power line through. I was able to connect to the battery and keep all the wires above the frame and just have the 7 pin on the outside beneath the frame.

MJo 06-01-2021 03:34 PM

electric brakes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 816000)
follow the AC power cord to where it terminates, there should be three wires, black (hot), white (neutral), and green (ground). disconnect it from where it goes, connect it to the input side of the EMS, and get a short piece of the same sort of 120 wire (any decent hardware store, or an electrical wholesaler will have this), and connect it where the power cord used to be and to the EMS output side. secure the EMS somewhree suitable, like behind the power panel.

ďsame sort of 120 wireĒ. Canít I use the 10 wire I got for the 4-7 conversion? I bought a reel of it, (cheap). I need to take a look, I donít know what ď120 wireĒ is. Iíll go to a hardware store and see what youíre talking about.

parmm 06-08-2021 06:34 PM

Okay, I already have the 7 plug connector and 4 plug connector, already prewired, on my pickup, so all I have to do is run that hot line? And where do I find the autowbrake on my new to me Scamp 19?

John in Santa Cruz 06-08-2021 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parmm (Post 816660)
Okay, I already have the 7 plug connector and 4 plug connector, already prewired, on my pickup, so all I have to do is run that hot line? And where do I find the autowbrake on my new to me Scamp 19?

if your truck already has the 7-blade, likely there's a truck-maker specific connector for the brake controller somewhere just under the driver side dashboarrd, often its tucked behind the top of the side 'kick panel' on the drivers side. each major maker has their own connector, but companies like Tekonsha made 'pigtails' aka adapters for each of them to their own brake controllers, for instance, for a Ford truck, you would use https://www.tekonsha.com/product/303...ontrol-harness

and plug that into any wired Tekonsha brand brake controller, which you mount within drivers handy reach under the dash.

the 7-blade should already have a power wire, although I remember my 2001 Ford E150, there was a relay and a fuse in a baggy with instructions in the glovebox, these had to be plugged into the right spot in the main fuse/relay panel under the hood to activate that power wire.

your scamp should already have a 7-blade 'pigtail' that plugs right into the truck's 7 blade outlet, however the 19 is a 'fifth wheel', so you'll probably want an extension cord since the trailer connector is closer to the middle of the bed than below the rear bumper.

parmm 06-08-2021 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 816661)
if your truck already has the 7-blade, likely there's a truck-maker specific connector for the brake controller somewhere just under the driver side dashboarrd, often its tucked behind the top of the side 'kick panel' on the drivers side. each major maker has their own connector, but companies like Tekonsha made 'pigtails' aka adapters for each of them to their own brake controllers, for instance, for a Ford truck, you would use https://www.tekonsha.com/product/303...ontrol-harness

and plug that into any wired Tekonsha brand brake controller, which you mount within drivers handy reach under the dash.

the 7-blade should already have a power wire, although I remember my 2001 Ford E150, there was a relay and a fuse in a baggy with instructions in the glovebox, these had to be plugged into the right spot in the main fuse/relay panel under the hood to activate that power wire.

your scamp should already have a 7-blade 'pigtail' that plugs right into the truck's 7 blade outlet, however the 19 is a 'fifth wheel', so you'll probably want an extension cord since the trailer connector is closer to the middle of the bed than below the rear bumper.

2018 Chevy Colorado LT
V6 with tow haul, but no brake controller. If I need a on board brake controller, I would consider the Redarc Tow-Pro Liberty Brake Controller. But if my trailer has Autowbrake, why would I need a on board brake controller. I just need to figure out when needs to be changed in my Chevy wiring to get the Autowbrake to work? Any help would be much appreciated as it is getting harder for my 74 year old brain to comprehend things like it use to. To much useless technical stuff floating around up there!

John in Santa Cruz 06-08-2021 10:45 PM

no idea why you would want to use a kludge like autowbrake if you already have a 7 pin RV connector and your vehicle is already fully wired. having the brake controller within reach of the driver allows you to manually engage the trailer brakes in an emergency, and it also lets you do things like reduce the trailer braking performance on a dirt road when the default setting for dry pavement would cause tire lockups in the dirt.

actually, I'm really surprised a Scamp 19, which is a 5th wheel that has to be towed by a real truck, would even HAVE an autowbrake, thats something usually used on very light trailers that would be towed by a car thats not properly wired.

MJo 06-09-2021 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parmm (Post 816660)
Okay, I already have the 7 plug connector and 4 plug connector, already prewired, on my pickup, so all I have to do is run that hot line? And where do I find the autowbrake on my new to me Scamp 19?

Call Scamp. The service manager will tell you that the controller is already in the Scamp. When I picked up my 13Ēí they gave me a remote which actuated the controller which they had mounted in the front closet of the Scamp. If you want a controller in your truck, Tekonsha and other brands can be added. Call Scamp, the will give you answers to your ?ís about your Scamp.

MJo 06-09-2021 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 816675)
no idea why you would want to use a kludge like autowbrake if you already have a 7 pin RV connector and your vehicle is already fully wired. having the brake controller within reach of the driver allows you to manually engage the trailer brakes in an emergency, and it also lets you do things like reduce the trailer braking performance on a dirt road when the default setting for dry pavement would cause tire lockups in the dirt.

actually, I'm really surprised a Scamp 19, which is a 5th wheel that has to be towed by a real truck, would even HAVE an autowbrake, thats something usually used on very light trailers that would be towed by a car thats not properly wired.

Yes, it seems strange that he wants separate brakes in the 5th wheel, that could cause real problems

Lynn Eberhardt 06-09-2021 10:55 AM

The already installed Autowbrake is probably connected to the trailer battery. Just make sure you have good power from the the TV to the trailer battery and you should be good to go. Don't overthink it.

gordon2 06-09-2021 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eberhardt (Post 816697)
The already installed Autowbrake is probably connected to the trailer battery. Just make sure you have good power from the the TV to the trailer battery and you should be good to go. Don't overthink it.

Don't underthink it either... thinking that the trailer battery is a safe way to power the trailer brakes is under thinking. For a break-away switch... fine... for constant use, its a very bad idea.

1. You would have to make darn sure the charge line could keep up.
2. You would have to make darn sure you did not run down you trailer battery when camping and then drive away with insufficient brake power (before the battery gets recharged).
3. You would have to darn make sure the battery was properly maintained. and even then as it ages problems will eventually develop.
4. You would have to make darn sure it was not a fused line where a blown fuse would kill the brakes. (Use auto-reset 12 VDC breaker).
5. You would have to make darn sure that no one ever stole your trailer battery.

On the other hand run a dedicated line for the brake power from the tug battery which includes the alternator as a power source and you can be darn sure that there is sufficient power for the trailer brakes whenever the tug is running.

gordon2 06-09-2021 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parmm (Post 816671)
... But if my trailer has Autowbrake, why would I need a on board brake controller. I just need to figure out when needs to be changed in my Chevy wiring to get the Autowbrake to work?...

IF is the question... Scamp only started installing the AutowBrake system in the last couple of years. And only upon request and upon payment for the option.

If you look for it you will find it if it's there. Its usually on the tongue but can be inside. If inside it should be near the front wall, in the bench compartment or where the 7-pin wiring comes in, near the porta-potty storage. It could be elsewhere but very unlikely. It looks like this:
https://www.etrailer.com/static/imag...001_3_1000.jpg

MJo 06-09-2021 12:06 PM

Electric brakes
 
I ordered electric brakes so It came with brakes which seem to be Autobrakrs and a remote for my keychain which works the controller installed in the front closet next to the door of my Scamp 13’ to adjust the brakes. It doesn’t look like the picture you posted. It’s smaller, just a black box with wires coming out of which connects it to the brakes. Like I said I have a keychain remote for it.

parmm 06-09-2021 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 816680)
Yes, it seems strange that he wants separate brakes in the 5th wheel, that could cause real problems

Didn't say I wanted seperate brakes. I said what my preference was if the trailer did not have Autowbrake. Have not picked it up yet! It is a older model year, so I doubt it his the Autowbrake.


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