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-   -   providing power to Scamp electric brakes (https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f55/providing-power-to-scamp-electric-brakes-95741.html)

MJo 05-21-2021 05:30 PM

electric brakes
 
So, the Scamp has the Autowbrake? I listened to the video, am I correct that I can use the brake lights on my car as the power source? I don’t have to run a wire to the battery in the engine compartment to obtain power? Do I need to add a fuse between the brake connector and the brake light wire? and is the wire 10 gauge? can you walk me through the process? I can access the brake lights, I have changed the bulbs a few times.

From my iPad Air

On May 18, 2021, at 4:07 PM, Parts Department <parts@scamptrailers.com> wrote:

Hi Mary

It is fairly straightforward to wire up. You will need the 12v and ground the blue and yellow wires can be ignored as the controller is in your trailer and not in the car.

Best Regards,
Parts Dept.
Eric

MJo 05-21-2021 05:39 PM

[QUOTE=MJo;814909]So, the Scamp has the Autowbrake? I listened to the video, am I correct that I can use the brake lights on my car as the power source? I donít have to run a wire to the battery in the engine compartment to obtain power? Do I need to add a fuse between the brake connector and the brake light wire? and is the wire 10 gauge? can you walk me through the process? I can access the brake lights, I have changed the bulbs a few times.

From my iPad Air

On May 18, 2021, at 4:07 PM, Parts Department <parts@scamptrailers.com> wrote:

Hi Mary

It is fairly straightforward to wire up. You will need the 12v and ground the blue and yellow wires can be ignored as the controller is in your trailer and not in the car.

Best Regards,
Parts Dept.
Eric

John in Santa Cruz 05-21-2021 05:57 PM

no, your lighting circuits most certainly can NOT power the brakes. the RF brake controller looks at the light signals on the trailer connector (which come from your 4-pin to the 7 pin adapter), and uses that to decide WHEN to brake, and it gets the braking power from the pin we previously mentioned.

I suggest a 50 amp Bussman auto-resetting breaker like I already linked on amazon. (don't get a chinese noname breaker, I know amazon sells a ton of those). and as I said, AWG10 COPPER (not aluminum, not copper plated) straned wire is sufficient for 50 amps max for this short run, regardless of what that generic wiring table posted early says.

MJo 05-21-2021 06:09 PM

electric brakes
 
that is an email before I got a lot of the posts. I Do Not intend to use the brake lights, I am going to go to the positive on the battery and use a circuit breaker. I did see an inline circuit breaker that looked easy but I wonít use it, I know about Amazon and chinese products, I avoid them if I can. I avoid Amazon when I can get what I want locally, I like to do business with local people because times have been difficult for them. Amazon is making money off of the covid situation as is Walmart. I wonít use the brake lights, I heard what everyone said about that. Now that I know the battery is in the trunk, I wonít have any problem hooking up to the battery. If I had had to go through the fire wall, I could have done that. And I either do it myself or do without. Contrary to popular belief, there is NO garage around here that will do the wiring, I have approached them all. And there is no reason why I canít do it. And I want to do it. So.

MJo 05-21-2021 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 814914)
no, your lighting circuits most certainly can NOT power the brakes. the RF brake controller looks at the light signals on the trailer connector (which come from your 4-pin to the 7 pin adapter), and uses that to decide WHEN to brake, and it gets the braking power from the pin we previously mentioned.

I suggest a 50 amp Bussman auto-resetting breaker like I already linked on amazon. (don't get a chinese noname breaker, I know amazon sells a ton of those). and as I said, AWG10 COPPER (not aluminum, not copper plated) straned wire is sufficient for 50 amps max for this short run, regardless of what that generic wiring table posted early says.

is this the correct copper wire? and what fasteners do you suggest to put on the wire ends to attach to the battery post and the wires coming from the 7 connector?

BNTECHGO 10 Gauge Silicone Wire 5 ft red and 5 ft Black Flexible 10 AWG Stranded Copper Wire.

John in Santa Cruz 05-21-2021 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814923)
is this the correct copper wire? and what fasteners do you suggest to put on the wire ends to attach to the battery post and the wires coming from the 7 connector?

BNTECHGO 10 Gauge Silicone Wire 5 ft red and 5 ft Black Flexible 10 AWG Stranded Copper Wire.

That sounds like Chinese wire, and is probably junk. silicone wire is usually used for loud speakers, it does have good heat resistance but its quite soft and easily cut/nicked. The chinese wire is often way under its rated gauge, and/or has non-copper in it to bulk it up, as pure copper is expensive.

I would visit a local non-big-chain auto parts store, like a Napa or whatever, and ask the parts counter for a few feet of AWG 10 stranded copper.

re fasteners, the pictures I saw, looks like the Volvo positive battery terminal has a stud on it, I would measure the outer diameter of the stud (not the nut), and get a 'yellow' crimp on ring terminal with a hole slightly larger. the Bussman 50A breaker I posted had 3/16" studs, so you want ring terminals with 1/4" holes for that, and I do not know whats on hte back of your 7 blade socket, does it have pigtails or screw terminals? if screw terminals, measure the screw and get a ring or U crimp, yellow again for the AWG10 wire, of a suitable size to fit that screw. if it has a pigtail, hopefully its 10 or 12 AWG, so you can use a yellow barrel inline crimp.

I prefer the marine crimps that have shrink wrap insulation with thermal adhesive inside, you crimp these on the wires with a standard crimper on the yellow notch, then use a hot air gun (or a hair dryer on high) to heat the insulation until it shrinks tight on the wire, let it cool, and this shrink stuff forms a water tight seal.

this is probably every crimp you'll need for years :D
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-So.../dp/B01D3B4QHU

(yes those are 'generic' chinese, but I have a similar kit and they work well enough).

MJo 05-22-2021 06:02 AM

electric brakes
 
thanks for all the details. the part I purchased to join to the RVís 7 is actually very well made. the ends of the yellow, white, black and blue of the pigtail are metal tubes which are ready to slide the wires in from the car side and crimp them. on the outside are plastic sleeves to shrink-wrap them. the white ground is fitted with a 3/8thís in. ring to bolt on to the carís frame. Eric at Scamp said to forget the yellow and blue, all I need once I plug in the 4 pin flat connecter from the Scamp is the black for 12v and the white ground. There is a NAPA here and our local quality auto parts store, Orleans Auto. Now I have to open up the heavy plastic box that holds the battery and see what the challenge is there. Iíll see what the posts look like and how much clearance there is for a circuit breaker. Thanks for putting up with my questions and answering in usable detail. Itís the next best thing to having help at my elbow.

MJo 05-22-2021 06:13 AM

electric brakes
 
this is the 4 to 7 adapter I purchased on Amazon.

RVGUARD 4 Flat to 7 Way Blade Trailer Adapter Electrical Connector with Connector Socket Mounting Bracket for RV, Truck, Car

ThomasC 05-22-2021 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814948)
thanks for all the details. the part I purchased to join to the RVís 7 is actually very well made. the ends of the yellow, white, black and blue of the pigtail are metal tubes which are ready to slide the wires in from the car side and crimp them. on the outside are plastic sleeves to shrink-wrap them. the white ground is fitted with a 3/8thís in. ring to bolt on to the carís frame. Eric at Scamp said to forget the yellow and blue, all I need once I plug in the 4 pin flat connecter from the Scamp is the black for 12v and the white ground. There is a NAPA here and our local quality auto parts store, Orleans Auto. Now I have to open up the heavy plastic box that holds the battery and see what the challenge is there. Iíll see what the posts look like and how much clearance there is for a circuit breaker. Thanks for putting up with my questions and answering in usable detail. Itís the next best thing to having help at my elbow.

I am not familiar with your car. I worked on older Volvos but usually when you are in the rear spare tire area you may find a rubber plug separating the inside from the outside. That may be a nice spot to run your wire.

MJo 05-22-2021 07:23 AM

electric brakes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasC (Post 814950)
I am not familiar with your car. I worked on older Volvos but usually when you are in the rear spare tire area you may find a rubber plug separating the inside from the outside. That may be a nice spot to run your wire.

Thanks, itís good to know.

AlanKilian 05-22-2021 09:16 AM

I'm reading that note from Scamp about only needing to hook up power and ground, and then reading the information from Autowbrake about their wiring, and it seems to me that indeed, the Autowbrake does not use the brake signal from the car.

https://getautowbrake.com/pages/installation
https://taxaoutdoors.com/wp-content/...ion-Manual.pdf

So, I <think> the autowbrake uses the left and right turn signal wires to decide when to start breaking.

Can anyone else back me up and read the mess of Autowbrake wiring instructions and see if this is true?

MJo 05-22-2021 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 814943)
That sounds like Chinese wire, and is probably junk. silicone wire is usually used for loud speakers, it does have good heat resistance but its quite soft and easily cut/nicked. The chinese wire is often way under its rated gauge, and/or has non-copper in it to bulk it up, as pure copper is expensive.

I would visit a local non-big-chain auto parts store, like a Napa or whatever, and ask the parts counter for a few feet of AWG 10 stranded copper.

re fasteners, the pictures I saw, looks like the Volvo positive battery terminal has a stud on it, I would measure the outer diameter of the stud (not the nut), and get a 'yellow' crimp on ring terminal with a hole slightly larger. the Bussman 50A breaker I posted had 3/16" studs, so you want ring terminals with 1/4" holes for that, and I do not know whats on hte back of your 7 blade socket, does it have pigtails or screw terminals? if screw terminals, measure the screw and get a ring or U crimp, yellow again for the AWG10 wire, of a suitable size to fit that screw. if it has a pigtail, hopefully its 10 or 12 AWG, so you can use a yellow barrel inline crimp.

I prefer the marine crimps that have shrink wrap insulation with thermal adhesive inside, you crimp these on the wires with a standard crimper on the yellow notch, then use a hot air gun (or a hair dryer on high) to heat the insulation until it shrinks tight on the wire, let it cool, and this shrink stuff forms a water tight seal.

this is probably every crimp you'll need for years :D
https://www.amazon.com/Connectors-So.../dp/B01D3B4QHU

(yes those are 'generic' chinese, but I have a similar kit and they work well enough).

Iím at the battery I know to remove the negativeblack first. The posts look to be about 5/8 in dia. Also luckily there is a hole in the bottom of the trunk thru which Volvo threaded the cable to the 4 pin connector.
Now the big step, can I take unshielded pliers and take the negative off and then the positive? Iím leery of electrical I have no experience with, Iíve been zapped a few times.

John in Santa Cruz 05-22-2021 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 814966)
Iím at the battery I know to remove the negativeblack first. The posts look to be about 5/8 in dia. Also luckily there is a hole in the bottom of the trunk thru which Volvo threaded the cable to the 4 pin connector.
Now the big step, can I take unshielded pliers and take the negative off and then the positive? Iím leery of electrical I have no experience with, Iíve been zapped a few times.

I would use a 10mm wrench, not pliers. while unfastening the ground, be careful the tool doesn't touch the (+) terminal. once the ground cable is disconnected, and positioned so it can't accidentally touch the batteries ground post, then remove the nut thats on TOP of the + terminal, where the thinner wire comes from, and stack your new wire's ring terminal on that. you don't need to disconnect the + terminal from the battery to do this, in fact it might be easier if you don't. Once everything is wired up, replace the battery ground, and you'll probably need to reset your favorite stereo stations and the clock. if that car has driving style adaptation, it might take a half day to return to conditioning for your personal driving style (many cars, if you drive like the proverbial 'little old lady', they adapt to that and favor smooth, while if you drive aggressively, they adapt to /that/ and shift at higher RPMs and other such things to make the car sportier).

MJo 05-22-2021 07:16 PM

electric brakes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 814967)
I would use a 10mm wrench, not pliers. while unfastening the ground, be careful the tool doesn't touch the (+) terminal. once the ground cable is disconnected, and positioned so it can't accidentally touch the batteries ground post, then remove the nut thats on TOP of the + terminal, where the thinner wire comes from, and stack your new wire's ring terminal on that. you don't need to disconnect the + terminal from the battery to do this, in fact it might be easier if you don't. Once everything is wired up, replace the battery ground, and you'll probably need to reset your favorite stereo stations and the clock. if that car has driving style adaptation, it might take a half day to return to conditioning for your personal driving style (many cars, if you drive like the proverbial 'little old lady', they adapt to that and favor smooth, while if you drive aggressively, they adapt to /that/ and shift at higher RPMs and other such things to make the car sportier).

NAPA auto parts men were very helpful, no guff about putting the thing together to go from 4>7, took it as a matter of course, had everything. I donít do anything like the ďproverbial old lady.Ē For the past 30 years, Iíve been working alongside people my sonsí ages, 40-60 year olds, so Iím a weird cross between old and decrepit and middle aged. You should get and read the book, ďYounger Next Year.Ē. seriously, really seriously. You will be glad you did. let me know.

John in Santa Cruz 05-23-2021 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 815021)
NAPA auto parts men were very helpful, no guff about putting the thing together to go from 4>7, took it as a matter of course, had everything. I donít do anything like the ďproverbial old lady.Ē For the past 30 years, Iíve been working alongside people my sonsí ages, 40-60 year olds, so Iím a weird cross between old and decrepit and middle aged. You should get and read the book, ďYounger Next Year.Ē. seriously, really seriously. You will be glad you did. let me know.

hey, I'm only 66 right now. thats not 'old', is it? I refuse to accept that.

MJo 05-23-2021 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz (Post 815042)
hey, I'm only 66 right now. thats not 'old', is it? I refuse to accept that.

I didn’t say that. The book’s title is for anyone. Take a look. You might learn something. I did. The men’s version was written first by 2 men, a doctor and his patient. It’s my gift to you for helping me. Later they did one in pink for women.

Glenn Baglo 05-23-2021 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJo (Post 815043)
Later they did one in pink for women.


Really? Like a pink Barbie RV?

MJo 05-23-2021 10:35 AM

YES, pink for women, and the first one that was written, for men, is yellow. Get it and read it, you'll benefit. It has a lot of good information and some interesting theories. Written by a prominent NY internist and one of his patients, alternate chapters. I've given it out to a lot of people and when I gave one to my physical therapist, who owns a large physical therapy business on the Cape, he said he already had read it and given it out to people. both were written by the 2 men but I was surprised at how different they were in ways you would expect them to be different.
By the way, You never have researched and told us where the hole in the cheese went.

parmm 05-23-2021 10:38 AM

Mary Jo, two ideas.

1. The Car Guys (NPR radio show guys, Click and Clack the Tappet Brothers) had a garage, "The Good News Garage" at 75 Hamilton Street, Cambridge MA. They retired, but hopefully the garage is being operated like the Car Guys set it up. They specialized in foreign cars. They knew all the tricks of the trade. Quit the Volvo dealer and take it to the Car Guy's garage.


2. Go to a trailer dealer. They know all about how to hook up brake systems to operate the trailers brakes. Do not take it to a RV dealer unless you can find a 5 star one, and they are few and far between!!!

MJo 05-23-2021 10:51 AM

electric brakes
 
Thank you the suggestion. But finally, I just went back and looked at what the Scamp service manager told me and John from Santa Cruz finally accepted that I was going to do it, "Come hell or high water" and he has worked on it with me and suggested Napa auto parts to get the parts. I have attached the 7 pin with a circuit breaker to the wire and now I only have to go out to my car and attach the wire to the battery. In the middle of all this, I found out how my Scamp 4 pin is connected and saw that I am going to be able to put all the connected parts inside the trunk next to the battery with only the 7 pin connector on the outside. Then all I have to do is test it. But if I had known about Frick and Frack, I probably would have tried them although one of the men who answered my query recently offered to help and he lives in Cambridge also. thanks again.


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