Got new carpet for walls and ceiling - Fiberglass RV
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-21-2017, 01:35 PM   #1
Member
 
Name: Ilene
Trailer: 1981 Perris Pacer
California
Posts: 31
Got new carpet for walls and ceiling

Has anyone replaced the low nap carpet on stripped Perris Pacer? I'm wondering how to do that plus insulate...
Ilene Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 03:30 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
Got new carpet for walls and ceiling

One common approach is a layer of foil bubble insulation (Reflectix is one brand, available at home improvement stores), followed by marine headliner (available from Scamp or a number of online suppliers, google "marine headliner"). Install using automotive headliner adhesive from your local auto parts store.

That's the easy part. The hard part is stripping the shell of interior cabinetry and windows and putting it back together afterward. For best results you want insulation and lining across the entire shell.

I would recommend looking closely inside a Scamp to see how they piece it together to minimize seams. They've had a lot of time to figure it out.

Haven't done it myself, and I hope I never have to, but I like how it looks and feels in my Scamp. I'd do it the same way again if I had to, except I'd probably go with one of the short-napped products I've seen online rather than Scamp's long-napped headliner.
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2017, 07:36 PM   #3
Member
 
Name: Ilene
Trailer: 1981 Perris Pacer
California
Posts: 31
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
One common approach is a layer of foil bubble insulation (Reflectix is one brand, available at home improvement stores), followed by marine headliner (available from Scamp or a number of online suppliers, google "marine headliner"). Install using automotive headliner adhesive from your local auto parts store.

That's the easy part. The hard part is stripping the shell of interior cabinetry and windows and putting it back together afterward. For best results you want insulation and lining across the entire shell.

I would recommend looking closely inside a Scamp to see how they piece it together to minimize seams. They've had a lot of time to figure it out.

Haven't done it myself, and I hope I never have to, but I like how it looks and feels in my Scamp. I'd do it the same way again if I had to, except I'd probably go with one of the short-napped products I've seen online rather than Scamp's long-napped headliner.

Thanks, Jon. I kind of figured we'd have to take everything out first. Hmm...
Ilene Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 05:57 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Name: Kelly
Trailer: Trails West
Oregon
Posts: 3,047
It would be a waste of time and money to put Reflective bubble wrap products underneath of the headliner materials such as the one that is carpet like. Once you put adhesive onto the reflective surface of that type of material it no longer has the ability to reflect. As you would have to do a full coverage of glue on both the shell side and the material side you then have to benefit from the reflective. Sure you have a few air bubbles in the layer but that gives you only a small fractional amount as far as insulation goes so it is simply not going to be worth the bother of doing it.

You can use what is called Landau foam underneath the headliner. It will give you some R value as well as some sound deadening. But it will only give you around 3.5 R value per inch and you would only be using it in a thickness of between 1/8" to 1/2" thick. So you still won't be gaining very much in terms of insulation.

Therefore you need to put your thinking cap on and decide insulation wise are you getting anything that brings good value out of your money and time for whatever you decide to do with your interior wall finish. The truth is simply that you will gain only a very tiny amount of R value by putting a thin layer of insulating material underneath of the carpet. There is simply no magic bullet product around that will generate good R value with that kind of installation. If there was then the trailer manufacturers would all be doing it.
k corbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 07:26 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Byron Kinnaman's Avatar
 
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 7,056
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by k corbin View Post
It would be a waste of time and money to put Reflective bubble wrap products underneath of the headliner materials such as the one that is carpet like. Once you put adhesive onto the reflective surface of that type of material it no longer has the ability to reflect. As you would have to do a full coverage of glue on both the shell side and the material side you then have to benefit from the reflective. Sure you have a few air bubbles in the layer but that gives you only a small fractional amount as far as insulation goes so it is simply not going to be worth the bother of doing it.

You can use what is called Landau foam underneath the headliner. It will give you some R value as well as some sound deadening. But it will only give you around 3.5 R value per inch and you would only be using it in a thickness of between 1/8" to 1/2" thick. So you still won't be gaining very much in terms of insulation.

Therefore you need to put your thinking cap on and decide insulation wise are you getting anything that brings good value out of your money and time for whatever you decide to do with your interior wall finish. The truth is simply that you will gain only a very tiny amount of R value by putting a thin layer of insulating material underneath of the carpet. There is simply no magic bullet product around that will generate good R value with that kind of installation. If there was then the trailer manufacturers would all be doing it.
Is that why Scamp uses 2 layers of Reflex type insulation under the Rat Fur head liner?
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
Byron Kinnaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2017, 09:28 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
Not exactly, Byron. They use one layer made with two sheets of bubbles between the foil. I seem to recall it's not Reflectix but some other brand, Ray Foil, maybe?

In Scamp's website video of how they build their trailers, it appears the adhesive is sprayed on in a spatter pattern. I wonder if that preserves some of the reflective properties of the foil. I really don't know. I have read the specs KC cites. In practice, the net result seems better than the next-to-nothing the specs would seem to suggest, even if far less than the R15 Scamp claims. I am satisfied with its performance in temperatures up to around 85F (without A/C or powered roof vent) and down to around 30F (with light furnace use). We avoid extreme temperatures, anyway, since our goal in going camping is to be outside.

A quarter inch layer of closed cell foam under the headliner might be better, but it's more expensive and trickier to install in the corners.

It would be an interesting experiment to make six boxes, line them with nothing, headliner only, Reflectix only, headliner over Reflectix, closed cell foam only, and headliner over closed cell foam. Put thermometers inside and measure the rate of change when placed in a warm or cold environment.
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 01:24 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
ststefan's Avatar
 
Name: Steve
Trailer: 1979 Boler1700
Maple Ridge, B.C.
Posts: 383
Registry
One thing I haven't heard mentioned on here is hot rod fire wall insulation. It has a reflective surface with a jute backing. I used it in my '53 chevy pickup everywhere ( firewall, ceiling and rear wall) double layered with reflective surfaces out. The difference in heat was phenomenal.
ststefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 06:34 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
The jute backing sounds like something that might absorb moisture and support mold growth, no? All it takes is a small window leak...
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2017, 03:05 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
ststefan's Avatar
 
Name: Steve
Trailer: 1979 Boler1700
Maple Ridge, B.C.
Posts: 383
Registry
Worked in my '53 Chevy street rod pickup. It wasn't exactly watertight and it was a daily driver winter and summer. It rains a lot here in the Vancouver area.
ststefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2017, 02:47 PM   #10
Junior Member
 
Name: Andrew
Trailer: '13 Scamp
Alaska
Posts: 23
Solving the reflectix problem

My scientific internet research supports the belief that reflectix really only functions as an insulator when there is a dead air space between the radiant barrier and the shell. The real benefit of a radiant barrier (reflectix) layer on the trailer is to prevent condensation from forming on the walls and it's ability to withstand moist environments.

Creating a dead air space cannot be accomplished easily with our fiberglass trailers but it can be done cheaply with a layer of normal bubble wrap (like the shipping/mail variety) between the radiant barrier and the shell. It's not much for an air space (1/8"-1/16"?) but it should help. I dont know if it's worth the trouble, but it's cheap if you can get it installed without using 8 cans of spray adhesive.
Andrew AK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 08:48 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
Posts: 3,209
reflex

here is how it was done on my 40f eagle bus they laid down 1/2 pure foam hung up with glue of course. Then they put naugahide elephant skin on top of that.

in your case you could order the ratfur from scamp to do the same thing. 3m makes some fantastic glues any good car headliner guy can do this usually an upholstery shop!

bob
k0wtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2017, 12:08 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Name: Kelly
Trailer: Trails West
Oregon
Posts: 3,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman View Post
Is that why Scamp uses 2 layers of Reflex type insulation under the Rat Fur head liner?
You would have to ask Scamp why they do what they do. I was not part of their design team
k corbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2017, 12:38 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Name: Kelly
Trailer: Trails West
Oregon
Posts: 3,047
Reflectix is 5/16" thick. If they use two layers you are up to 10/16 which is 5/8" The R value of 1/2" of dead air space is .69. So we are looking at an actual R value for two layers of Reflectix as being less than .8 for R value. As I stated in my last posting you are only going to get a small, fractional amount out of a single layer of Reflectix. In fact the cost of putting it in and the fact that you destroy its ability to reflect radiant heat quality by applying glue to it makes the whole situation of installing it pretty much a financial loss.

As to condensation. That happens when warm moist air hits a cold surface. If you have a carpet lining then moisture that is in the air lands on the fibers which are not nearly as prone to condensation dripping issues as the surface of fiberglass or even a plastic surface such a bubble wrap. As the bubble wrap is giving you next to nothing for R Value it too has a cold surface. So basically what is helping with the condensation issue has nothing to do with dead air space from the thin layer of bubble wrap. Instead it is the fibers of the carpet on which the moisture accumulates and then because of it rough surface texture it holds onto it instead of having it drip down on your head. Then when things warm up the moisture slowly evaporates back into the air leaving the surface of the carpet dry once again.

I am not sure why this concept of the carpet being the thing that is preventing the condensation issue of moisture dripping onto your head is so difficult for people to understand. I am also not sure why people actually think a small air gap created by some bubbles trapped in plastic could possibly have any significant amount of R value. As to testing what the R values are for various materials used for insulation. There is not need to do it yourself, that has long since been done in labs that have quality control and good instruments for measuring the results. You can find the information from various government web sites and other sites that are from professional building organizations who test out potentially fraudulent claims of R value.

If Scamp is claiming to get R-15 out of two layers of relflectix with a spray glued application then that does not sound in the least possible as the most R value they can get out of 5/8" inch of bubble wrap is less than R1. The R value of indoor outdoor carpet is about .20 but lets be generous and double that. So now adding up the double layer of bubbles for a 5/8" inch air space for R.8 and a R .40 value for the carpet you end up with R1.2

I have no idea where that claim of R15 actually came from as I have not been to the Scamp website to verify that they are the ones claiming that.
k corbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2017, 06:02 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Name: Lyle
Trailer: Scamp 16, previously Scamp 13
None
Posts: 739
" I am also not sure why people actually think a small air gap created by some bubbles trapped in plastic could possibly have any significant amount of R value."

For me, mainly, because I have sat in my heated Scamp for the past two winters, at times when the outside was in the low teens and single digit. Scamp was heated with one or two ceramic heaters, each set on their low setting and thermostatically controlled by a remote thermostat.

The difference in comfort level before and after applying a single layer of bubble wrap to the windows and vents was phenomenal. Just sitting next to the windows, with curtains drawn was quite chilling prior to applying the bubble wrap, after applying, I could sit next to the windows all evening without getting a chill. You will not convince me that that single layer of bubble wrap did not make a HUGE difference.

Seems, by your reasoning, dual pane windows are a scam also.
LyleB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2017, 08:24 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Jon in AZ's Avatar
 
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleB View Post
...Seems, by your reasoning, dual pane windows are a scam also.
Unlike plastic bubbles, dual pane windows have a partial vacuum inside. That's what makes them effective, as a vacuum does not conduct heat.

Reflectix is designed as a radiant barrier, not as thermal insulation. It works by reflecting radiant heat energy back into (or out of) a conditioned space, not by blocking conduction of heat energy, like thermal windows, fiberglass batts, or various kinds of foam.

Putting foil bubble wrap over the windows allows its reflective properties to work as intended. Covering it with headliner is the issue. It's a hack, and it hasn't been tested in that configuration.
Jon in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2017, 08:47 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Name: Lyle
Trailer: Scamp 16, previously Scamp 13
None
Posts: 739
I wasn't talking reflectix on the windows, simple bubble wrap, as sold for packing material.

Old fashioned storm windows, plastic window insulation kits, neither uses a vacuum. Guess they never worked either.

How about down clothing? Purpose of down is to create loft, dead airspace.

Lots of gullible folks over decades have all been taken to the cleaners, I guess. Adding dead air space is worthless.

No further comment from me, I'll just continue to apply the bubble wrap in winter and wear my down clothing when it gets cold out. :-)
LyleB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2017, 10:14 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
Posts: 3,209
lyle

lyle I understand your message but wasn't he talking new carpet on his walls and ceilings? I am not flaming you by the way!
k0wtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2017, 10:19 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
Posts: 3,209
the job

I hate to say this but due to the small size of Scamp campers to gain the amount of temp. protection people desire this is an impossible job. I think the little foam and ratfur Scamp and other trailer cos do is really cosmetic.

Not much to be gained by any of it now if you want to figure out some way to have 2x4 walls and ceilings a good gain can be made but to what avail!

save your money and effort if you are going after this it really cant be done!
k0wtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2017, 09:02 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Name: Kelly
Trailer: Trails West
Oregon
Posts: 3,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleB View Post
"
The difference in comfort level before and after applying a single layer of bubble wrap to the windows and vents was phenomenal. Just sitting next to the windows, with curtains drawn was quite chilling prior to applying the bubble wrap, after applying, I could sit next to the windows all evening without getting a chill. You will not convince me that that single layer of bubble wrap did not make a HUGE difference.

Seems, by your reasoning, dual pane windows are a scam also.
If you get rid of drafts from windows and vents you certainly will be a lot warmer Even with new seals my trailer windows are not draft free. So I do use window blankets. I used to live in an old house with single pane windows. Every winter I put a layer of plastic over the inside of the windows sealing the edges down with tape or wood battens with foam on the face to compress the plastic film to the surrounding window frame. That created a poor man's double pane window out of the old drafty windows.
k corbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2017, 03:41 PM   #20
Junior Member
 
Name: Lisa
Trailer: scamp 13 scamp 5th, casita 13
Michigan
Posts: 24
Carpet

So where is another source for the rat fur? Does anyone know of one?

TIA
lshelly1061 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
perris pacer


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Replacing old carpet on interior walls & ceiling CabanaJack Modifications, Alterations and Updates 7 08-30-2013 09:31 PM
interior walls and ceiling- paint? carpet? CS86 Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 4 07-12-2013 04:17 PM
Success with Int paint walls,countertops,Cabinets, Carpet for floors. Walls, too? Gigi Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 2 08-31-2012 11:13 AM
Casita carpet....... Walls and Ceiling Robin G Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 52 06-18-2008 05:12 PM
Casita carpet....... Walls and Ceiling Robin G Modifications, Alterations and Updates 0 01-01-1970 12:00 AM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.