Catalytic or Buddy portable indoor propane heater for Scamp 13

[Perryb67]

Originally Posted by nefldiver

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Resources / Facts About Carbon Monoxide Poisoning
FACTS ABOUT CARBON MONOXIDE POISONING
Carbon monoxide is the leading cause of accidental poisoning in the United States today.

Carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning can happen within a matter of minutes and is responsible for more deaths than any other single poison. This odorless, colorless poison can hurt you slowly in low levels, cause permanent neurological dysfunctions in moderate levels, and take lives in higher levels.

Oil, propane, and natural gas fired heating systems, gas appliances and fireplaces all release carbon monoxide as they burn and can be health and fire hazards.

The Sky Is Falling!

The Sky Is Falling!

Enjoy,

Perry

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

The Sky Is Falling!

The Sky Is Falling!

Enjoy,

Perry

So, you don't believe that people should be informed of potential hazards? Ignorance is bliss?

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by nefldiver

...

You can see and feel and smell fire ... That's one of my main points!!

And that is a very good point. You could have made it better as your post only has two words on this point (odorless and colorless) and does not mention at all how to detect CO and prevent injury and death.

So we know we should use a CO alarm. But what are the requirements for a good one? There is some debate over the effectiveness of most CO alarms which are triggered by a combination of concentration and time. That is to say that the higher the concentration of CO, the shorter time it takes to alarm. And the lower the concentration, the longer it takes. The controversy is about what level of long term exposure is safe. Based on some evidence, some people are of the opinion that levels that are too low to cause a CO alarm to trigger are still unsafe.

Some have suggested a CO alarm which keeps track of the minimal level detected. So I bought two of them. But neither have ever showed anything other than zero, even when I put one in my garage for a few days.

So perhaps a "lab quality" CO detector would be appropriate. But that can get very expensive so the need should be established.

I know I should use a CO alarm.. beyond that I have more questions than answers.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

So, you don't believe that people should be informed of potential hazards? Ignorance is bliss?

You know my mantra has always been to inform yourself and take responsibility for your actions.

Spreading fear and paranoia is not the same as advocating common sense and education.


Running around with your hair on fire may not give off carbon monoxide, but it does spread a dangerous poison.

[Perryb67]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

So, you don't believe that people should be informed of potential hazards? Ignorance is bliss?

Yes, I do. However, some just keep it up.

There are those here who want information on using Buddy or catalytic type heaters. That's what this thread is about. The "Sky Is Falling" people, once they've made there point, should start their own thread.

I've read about a number of deaths where an "unvented" heater was the problem. Some people stop thinking at that point. We're not talking "unvented," but are talking "vented." There is a HUGE difference! Some here just don't get it.

Enjoy,

Perry

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

...
I've read about a number of deaths where an "unvented" heater was the problem. ...

I have heard of a number of deaths where an improperly used "unvented heater was the problem. I have never heard of a death where a unvented heater was properly used and was still the problem. Can you point to any of those cases?

Originally Posted by Perryb67

...
Some people stop thinking at that point. ...

I would sooner say they stop thinking when they (mis)use an unvented heater. At least in the cases I hear about that seems to be the case.

But still, "vented ~ idiot-proof" or perhaps "vented = idiot resistant"

[Perryb67]

Originally Posted by gordon2

I have heard of a number of deaths where an improperly used "unvented heater was the problem. I have never heard of a death where a unvented heater was properly used and was still the problem. Can you point to any of those cases?

I'm dyslexic (really I am!) and your second to last sentence is confusing to me. An unvented Buddy or Wave would NOT be properly used, because they NEED to be VENTED, not "unvented."

I would sooner say they stop thinking when they (mis)use an unvented heater. At least in the cases I hear about that seems to be the case.

But still, "vented ~ idiot-proof" or perhaps "vented = idiot resistant"

Cars are "idiot resistant" too and look where that gets us. Floyd gave other instances where we need to be careful, but still use those other items.

Friends I know of won't use a nail gun, but I accept the risks.

Some here need to beat their negativity down other's throats. OTOH, you understand the risks and I appreciate that.

Enjoy,

Perry

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

I'm dyslexic (really I am!) and your second to last sentence is confusing to me. An unvented Buddy or Wave would NOT be properly used, because they NEED to be VENTED, not "unvented."
...

Vented as part of the design and installation, where air comes into and out of the furnace without entering the living space, using a fan in modern units, and heat is transferred by means of some sort of heat exchanger (Suburban NT-16, etc.) vs. a "unvented" portable heater that burns in the same air and the same space as it heats, and is "vented" only in the sense that sufficient fresh air to support proper combustion is introduced via a window being opened or the like.

Anyway, if someone knows of a case where a Wave or Lil Buddy was properly used and still resulted in death or serious injury, please add that to the discussion.

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[k0wtz]

We have used a Wave 3 for a long time. Take my word for it there is a lot of outside air that comes into a Scamp. As Floyd said take a look around your fridge to see how poorly they are installed. Open your cabinent doors you will see plenty of daylight. Pull your bed and other stuff to see for yourself!

But this doesn't mean not to vent of course! We vent around 1/4in at the top and crack a window. We don't run our vent on full open and we do sleep with it at night.

We set it on the kitchen counter we have camped as low as 15d very cold by the way. We have never had moisture problems we do carry an alarm but it has never went off!

As one poster said some people refuse to use an air nailer sort of like using a unvented heater or not. USE YOUR HEAD silly!

Leaving for a trip to Quartzite shortly and will be using it for 2 or 3 weeks every night as needed.


bob

[steve dunham]

[QUOTE=k0wtz;765828

Leaving for a trip to Quartzite shortly and will be using it for 2 or 3 weeks every night as needed. bob[/QUOTE]

I don’t understand what good an air nailer will do you at Quartzite but read , understand and follow all safety instructions
Going to leave now before the posting police decide I am being negative which is another term for not agreeing with them .

[k0wtz]

I was just illustrating what one person said about air nailers and the fact they wont use them.

As per usual follow instructions and commom sense. If you don't understand convection flows and venting don't run an unvented heater. I haven't tried putting the heater on without venting but I am going to do it and see if the alarm goes off! I am sure there is a lot of outside air getting into my 13f scamper!!

Please don't get alarmed I am not running my Wave 3 without venting!!!!


I will get a p/m shortly about my grammer and spellin! LOL

bob

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by k0wtz

I was just illustrating what one person said about air nailers and the fact they wont use them.

As per usual follow instructions and commom sense. If you don't understand convection flows and venting don't run an unvented heater. I haven't tried putting the heater on without venting but I am going to do it and see if the alarm goes off! I am sure there is a lot of outside air getting into my 13f scamper!!

Please don't get alarmed I am not running my Wave 3 without venting!!!!


I will get a p/m shortly about my grammer and spellin! LOL

bob

I have expressed my opinion several times in the past on operating an unvented propane heater in a confined space . I weighed the pro’s and con’s and decided that the factory furnace was the best option for us .
Enjoy Quartzite, I hope you have a great time and return home safely !

[k0wtz]

Steve I don't have enough battery power for a furnace. Boonedocker here!

[Perryb67]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

So, you don't believe that people should be informed of potential hazards? Ignorance is bliss?

Five posts by nefldiver directly about ventilation and CO, plus numerous posts by those who either don't understand the science or aren't reading our posts about providing adequate ventilation and CO detection qualify as "The Sky Is Falling."

Living in fish house country and reading about those dying in fish houses I've yet to read one where there was adequate ventilation or a working CO detector. Why? Because the science says if there is adequate ventilation or a working CO detector the deaths wouldn't have happened. Period.

Enjoy,

Perry

[steve dunham]

I thought this was a forum open to discussion and where one can express their honest sincere opinion

Evidently Not !!!

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I thought this was a forum open to discussion and where one can express their honest sincere opinion

Evidently Not !!!

You just did.

[k0wtz]

steve I read all your posts I may not agree with your opinion at times but I do respect them. It doesn't mean there isn't another way. My system when before lighting the wave is to open a side window and open my top vent it doesn't take a lot vent due to convection!

Convection does the power venting I do have an alarm I keep it current it has never gone off but if I run the gas cook stove and the heater the alarm will go off. I can open the window more and it will not go off!

I boonedock so I don't have enough battery power to run the furnace and the Wave is way more efficient also. I can go on a 2 week trip in our cold weather and still come back with propane.

My suggestion is run your range without any venting watch your alarm go off. Crack your vents and watch it then for a test!

best regards

bob

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by k0wtz

steve I read all your posts I may not agree with your opinion at times but I do respect them. It doesn't mean there isn't another way. My system when before lighting the wave is to open a side window and open my top vent it doesn't take a lot vent due to convection!

Convection does the power venting I do have an alarm I keep it current it has never gone off but if I run the gas cook stove and the heater the alarm will go off. I can open the window more and it will not go off!

I boonedock so I don't have enough battery power to run the furnace and the Wave is way more efficient also. I can go on a 2 week trip in our cold weather and still come back with propane.

My suggestion is run your range without any venting watch your alarm go off. Crack your vents and watch it then for a test!

best regards

bob

Thank you ; I always read your posts and respect your opinion.
I own a Mr Buddy heater and will admit it works extremely well
No one should have to live their life by my standards , and I admit I tend to error on the side of safety

Best Wishes
Steve D

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

.. I admit I tend to error on the side of safety

...

That's hardly an error. In fact even if it happened to be an over reaction, it is never an error.