What can we expect from a Boler for 12,900, 14,000 and $15,000?

[Shangie]

Hello- Went on an all day "Boler for sale" whirlwind inspection tour yesterday hoping to buy one. Our $15,000 puget appears to be unrealistic for a well maintained Boler. I also think I have unrealistic expectations and perhaps need to be done with my search.

All four had warped doors that allowed at least an inch of sunshine in. The foam insulation was peeling off from where two owners tried to seal the doors. I wondered if someone couldn't replace a few dollars worth of foam strips to protect the threshold from water intrusion what did they maintain?

We have over $50,000 in receipts from just the past three of many prior attentive owners of our 50 year old vintage boat. None of the Boler owners had any receipts for maintenance or even renovation. Is that common? When we bought our large trailer which is not vintage but was fifteen years old, it was incredibly maintained with receipts for maintenance service so I am a bit put off by the lack of documentation of work. The same with every RV or boat we have bought

I wasn't expecting a new trailer but at those prices, and when described by sellers as well maintained, in good condition, a beauty, excellent condition, etc. I expected clean, non leaking, everything operational and performing as it was intended to, even if original or replaced with functioning if not.

All windows didn't close anywhere near fully allowing rain, insects, ghosts, etc. in and were hard to crank.

One, described as in pretty good condition for it's age with no leaks, had an inch of silicone smeared all around it's belly band and everywhere inside and it's rivets siliconed over but the silicone had lifted and dirt had entered. Because I do an intensive inspection I found water and water damage in the closet. Working water and propane stove. Icebox. Solid floor, hints of mold around all windows. Original frame and axle.

One described as "a beauty with no leaks" had a floor so spongy I, at 125 lbs, made the entire trailer floor a trampoline.It also had a fist sided crack along with what appeared to be the beginning of a hole right over the door and huge firecracker cracks all over the body. All appliances, water, propane lines and sink had been removed. It was curtseying in one corner and when I asked about the floor the owner said hubs had welded the broken frame. So full of things i couldn't properly inspect. Original frame and axle.

Two that were advertised in "excellent condition" for $15,900 firm had thirty screws hanging exposed about an inch and a half under the trailer where they appeared to have screwed down the first layer of new subfloor flooring (one month ild) marine grade ply but it was light as regular ply so maybe new glues these days as i've always known it to be a bit darker? The entire "new frame" had rust (two months old) and where the painted axle met the tongue, lots of rust. The seller flips these. The exteriors had been painted with automotive paint but the fiberglass was not fixed prior, not too bad a shape but it appeared a few cracks had been painted over. Propane stove worked in one but was in bad shape as was the sink. Both sink and stove was removed in the other. None had heaters. Cabinets looked good in pictures on one but on inspection were a painted over poor cabinetry remodel. Again, gaping door and poorly functioning windows. New wiring tucked in with old wiring in dusty compartment, dirty in the interior compartments. I don't know why the old wiring was there if it had all been 'new'. They were 'staged and it made inspection a bit tough due to extensive cute ceramic dishes and pillows in a small space that had to be moved about several times. Original frame and axle?

If the above condition is typical for the price, I need to stop looking and start looking hard at whether my Outback could pull a Scamp successfully if we only add weekend clothing. Thanks for any input.

[Jon in AZ]

Short answer. The used molded trailer market is nuts and I think what you’re seeing is late-to-the-game sellers hoping to cash in on the hype. At $15K a vintage 13’ trailer should be clean and ready to camp with no significant structural issues, minor cosmetic issues only. Don’t bite.

But why Boler over Scamp? Real world weights are in the same ballpark with similar equipment.

[Shangie]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Short answer. The used molded trailer market is nuts and I think what you’re seeing is late-to-the-game sellers hoping to cash in on the hype. At $15K a vintage 13’ trailer should be clean and ready to camp with no significant structural issues, minor cosmetic issues only. Don’t bite.

But why Boler over Scamp? Real world weights are in the same ballpark with similar equipment.

Weight. They are lighter and we do carry a thirty five pound instant shelter, extra cooler loaded with fresh foods since we don't east out like many clampers seem to. We also carry rain gear, extra warm clothes due to our climate. We don't bring the kitchen sink but we want to be comfortable and that means interior propane or diesel heat (so tanks). A porta potty is a must so I am borrowing a brilliant design found on this forum to change the twin bench area to a dinette, porta potty situation. I think the Scamp is too heavy already for me to do that design. I saw and sat in an example of that mod and it was brilliant. Many of us ladies do not want to use a public camp restroom in the middle of the night nor do we want to wake ourselves completely up going out to use a porta potty tent (been there, done that) nor do we want to do our private business in front of others, including the other who has seen us at our worst and might be wiping our rears someday. it's just personal preference but I am determined to find a small trailer my Outback rated to 2700 pound with a tongue weight limit of 200. Want to stay 20 percent below that and I keep reading that in real life Scamps just weigh more. If a Scamp will work then I might go that route so long as it is the 2008 or newer. Am also interested in a Trillium but am researching that due to the info on actual weight being all over the place.

Jon, your going to get me into a Scamp yet! I just have to work out the weight situation. I don't think vintage trailers are for us.

[Jon in AZ]

My 2008 Scamp 13 layout 1 with few options weighs about 1300-1350# empty and 1750# fully loaded with 200# on the tongue. I would have no qualms about towing it with an Outback. In fact, Outback is one of the most popular tow vehicles for 13’ Scamps.

Scamp, Boler, Trillium, Burro, U-Haul, Happier Camper… they’re all pretty similar weight-wise unless you start talking about fully optioned wet bath models with dual LP tanks and all the bells and whistles.

While there is some truth in the oft-repeated “vintage is lighter,” it’s not as much as many seem to think. People cite old brochures listing dry weights of 900#, but I’m not convinced it ever existed. Besides, I’d rather give up a few pounds to have the sturdier frame on my newer model over the lighter one on a vintage init.

[FRED SMAILES]

Originally Posted by Shangie

I don't think vintage trailers are for us.

I tend to agree. Double up your budget, wait a year maybe more to have yours made and enjoy.

[Shangie]

Originally Posted by FRED SMAILES

I tend to agree. Double up your budget, wait a year maybe more to have yours made and enjoy.

Scamp 13's come up for sale frequently in our area. We just need to go ahead and make the leap and see how we like it.

It is better to experiment with used to avoid the depreciation loss should we find we can't do the smaller size. I can think of a lot of things I can and want to do with that money.

Let's face it, due to profit chain needed to keep everyone involved in business, most RVs are not built that great. With fiberglass you have a shell that can last longer and so we see these vintage ones more than tin can vintage, though there are plenty of those restored ones around but they are heavy. Think about the chain. Everyone from the manufacturer of components, shippers of those parts, manufactures of the entire items, shippers of the finished product, salespeople, etc. have to make a profit to stay in business. Understandable.

As a former long term business owner I am well familiar with chain of profit and how it affects a business. My husband is involved in commercial construction on the office end of things and builds anything from high rise condos to a bathroom remodel for us. The chain of profit is well documented in those builds and in order for everyone to make a decent profit, costs are slashed wherever possible. The trailer industry must be one tough one but the public's love of camping and the outdoors causes us to overlook quality perhaps because unlike a vehicle or boat, our lives are usually not dependent on good trailer engineering so long as we have the right tow set up. A simple 13' Scamp just won't have so many things that can go wrong and that is a plus.

We can afford a new Scamp- that is not the issue. We just don't want to. We have other toys so camping is a smaller part of what we do. Boating is a priority. We also hike and stay at Airbnbs, etc. so a used 2007 and newer Scamp that will camped in a dozen times a year is probably what we will end up with.

[Iowa Dave]

Your day spent looking had great value to you. You’ll be able to refine your questions now. Be direct with the seller on what you expect and eliminate going to see a less than acceptable unit if you sense the seller is either not proficient in his repairs, a keeper of receipts, and knowledgeable in the world of fiberglass trailers. There are totally honest folks out there with pristine vintage equipment for sale, you just have to find them and be ready to travel on short notice. The money you spend finding the right trailer is well spent. Do not give up. When they say new cushions you’ll know to ask if it’s new foam, whose fabric (Sailrite etc) and zippers, buttons, cording, Velcro whatever.
That’s my take. Don’t worry about it if the guy screws someone else, there’s not much you can do about that. Remember, it’s like getting out of your car at a garage sale and saying to yourself, “This sale doesn’t look like much but You never know”. Best of luck. Don’t discount reaching out to the forum with your parameters, I heard of a couple casitas and a Scamp that could be bought in conversations among campers just last weekend. Don’t give up. Bear down
Iowa Dave

[Shangie]

Thank you for this encouraging response. You are right about the day not being wasted. The views make road trips worthwhile. I also figure anyone looking today should be able to do their research online and figure out what they are getting into. These forums really do help buyers out and if someone buys without doing research then all I can say is "good luck". And yes, there are people out here selling well maintained trailers. I will keep my ad up and maybe someone will write. Jon in Arizona has a good point about the Scamps.We can buy a 2008 and newer one for around 12-17,000 and my car will tow it. We took our time researching our 22' trailer and it paid off to wait for the one with owner records- it's still serving us well. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

Your day spent looking had great value to you. You’ll be able to refine your questions now. Be direct with the seller on what you expect and eliminate going to see a less than acceptable unit if you sense the seller is either not proficient in his repairs, a keeper of receipts, and knowledgeable in the world of fiberglass trailers. There are totally honest folks out there with pristine vintage equipment for sale, you just have to find them and be ready to travel on short notice. The money you spend finding the right trailer is well spent. Do not give up. When they say new cushions you’ll know to ask if it’s new foam, whose fabric (Sailrite etc) and zippers, buttons, cording, Velcro whatever.
That’s my take. Don’t worry about it if the guy screws someone else, there’s not much you can do about that. Remember, it’s like getting out of your car at a garage sale and saying to yourself, “This sale doesn’t look like much but You never know”. Best of luck. Don’t discount reaching out to the forum with your parameters, I heard of a couple casitas and a Scamp that could be bought in conversations among campers just last weekend. Don’t give up. Bear down
Iowa Dave

[Mikmay]

The boler you looked at is almost 50 years old any stickbuilt trailer that old would probably be a pile of sawdust with mold mixed in ,almost all fg trailers that old will have the integrity of the shell still in place but almost everything else will deteriorate if not kept up .most of the restores done on these trailers will be most likely done by the owner themselves and unlikely to have receipts for their work so I wouldn’t count on that unless it was restored by a professional restoration company and I have seen 17 ft bolers sell for close to $30.000 done by them .Do the math do you want to spend $15 .000 and add$10.000 to get it near new or use that $25.000 for a nice down payment on a new or newer trailer .

[Dmitry]

One word - RUN.
Your story reminds me of my "thin days", years more like, when I was rather poor, and went shopping for a used car. I had no one to advise me, a new immigrant that I was. Of course, nobody would be heartless enough to take advantage of someone like myself in New York City. I've only met amazing people who wanted to sell me their remarkably-maintained, very gently-used cars that their grandma drove to church and back.
Hold on to your cash; a good trailer will come around!
When I was shopping used cars, it occurred to me that I had better luck shopping the sellers, not their cars. And that's how it is.

[Shangie]

Hello- we are not expecting a new trailer or a professionally restored one for our budget.. This is not our first rodeo. It is easy to go online and see professionally restored trailer pricing. I have an appointment to see a trailer (from a wanted to buy ad) that the owner actually did keep receipts on for the things they did to their trailer. When they replaced the refrigerator they kept the operating manual and attached the receipt. Same for the upholstery material so a new owner would know how to care for it. That's the type of person I want to buy from, anal like myself.

If someone states a trailer has a new frame and axle, as the people selling the two 'restored' ones in BC did, then there should be a receipt for the frame and axle. They are hobbyist claiming to be updating these. Even at half the price of a professionally restored jobber, I would expect documentation from someone claiming to flip these for a hobby. Every trailer we have bought, and there have been many, came with a history of receipts, perhaps not a complete history but a history nevertheless. And BC, where the trailers are located, has a capital gains tax on personal property sales of travel trailers, vintage cars, etc. so receipts help offset that tax amount.

Perhaps vintage trailer people are the exception when it comes to having receipts?


What price a person asks for their trailer is up to them and most people understand they will never get back all they put into their 'toys". That is the price we pay for enjoying them. Our current boat had over $50,000 worth of receipts from the last three attentive owners. It is a 1973 Albin 25 and we paid the full, much higher than an original condition one, asking price right after a sea trial and inspection because of those receipts showing the incredible maintenance and upgrades. We found the unicorn. The seller did not expect to get their money back because in unrestored condition they usually sell for $12-20,000. In very good condition and mostly original they sell in the $25,000 range and in exceptional condition like ours was they sell for far more and are extremely rare. Since the boat is all fiberglass with zero wood to rot in the hull, they are worth restoring and we have a membership group to help out with knowledge. Our remarkable boat is trustworthy and we recently spent two weeks cruising the gulf islands without incident. Even with that, we have to spend money on it to keep it maintained and I have every receipt catalogued. The trailer we are going to see has a file of receipts and the owner sent me a picture of that. hopefully this is our unicorn and we won't even haggle on the price because a well maintained trailer is worth that.

Originally Posted by Mikmay

The boler you looked at is almost 50 years old any stickbuilt trailer that old would probably be a pile of sawdust with mold mixed in ,almost all fg trailers that old will have the integrity of the shell still in place but almost everything else will deteriorate if not kept up .most of the restores done on these trailers will be most likely done by the owner themselves and unlikely to have receipts for their work so I wouldn’t count on that unless it was restored by a professional restoration company and I have seen 17 ft bolers sell for close to $30.000 done by them .Do the math do you want to spend $15 .000 and add$10.000 to get it near new or use that $25.000 for a nice down payment on a new or newer trailer .

[Jon in AZ]

Vintage molded trailers are not really "collectibles," so yes and no. Someone doing a true restoration or resto-mod and intending to resell at some point would probably keep receipts. But some people just do a bit here and a bit there over a long ownership, more in the way of routine maintenance and updates. They might then call it "restored" upon sale, but...well... people use words rather loosely.

It shouldn't be too hard to distinguish an original vintage axle from a new-ish upgrade with a visual inspection and maybe a lift test. A few seemingly casual questions can also quickly expose a lie, such as who installed it, where they ordered it (if DIY), and (for an axle) what the weight and arm specs are.

Despite the inflated market, I have seen newer 13'ers in decent condition for around your budget. Done give in to desperation, and don't give up. There's one out there!

[FRED SMAILES]

Originally Posted by Shangie

BC, where the trailers are located, has a capital gains tax on personal property sales of travel trailers, vintage cars, etc. so receipts help offset that tax amount.

Perhaps vintage trailer people are the exception when it comes to having receipts?
.

I live in BC, have never heard of this.
Is this a new tax. We pay tax on used vehicles etc when we purchase but Ive never been taxed on a sale?

[Mikmay]

Originally Posted by FRED SMAILES

I live in BC, have never heard of this.
Is this a new tax. We pay tax on used vehicles etc when we purchase but Ive never been taxed on a sale?

I believe in the US if you make your trailer your second home you can write off expenses including financing but this may of changed ,if you are taking the Wright off and you sell that trailer for more than you paid you could be subject to capital gains .if you are In Canada no way unless your trailer is used for business . It’s rare that you would buy $200.000 motor home and sell it for more than you paid but fg trailers may do the opposite in some instances.

[Shangie]

You survived your thin days! And in New York City! I wonder if some people get pleasure from coning others, viewing the person as deserving what they get if they bite? Hopefully that is a small minority of humans. I still think most sellers don't know what they have so best to be educated on how to be a good inspector. I think it is more difficult to turn back odometers these days.

It takes persistence and knowledge to find good used items. We have had two major appliances that were not bottom of the line and well researched that failed within two to three years of service. An extended warranty on both saved us lots of money. One they couldn't repair because they couldn't get the parts from China until next year (fridge). In forty years of owning appliances this is a first for us. We replaced a 22 year old working fridge when we purchased this home only to buy costly crap. Our friends had a thousand dollar dishwasher catch on fire last year- good thing they were home. The pressure for profits is unsustainable.

And yes, I agree, a good trailer will come and in the meanwhile I will keep my running shoes on. . Thanks for the encouragement!

Originally Posted by Dmitry

One word - RUN.
Your story reminds me of my "thin days", years more like, when I was rather poor, and went shopping for a used car. I had no one to advise me, a new immigrant that I was. Of course, nobody would be heartless enough to take advantage of someone like myself in New York City. I've only met amazing people who wanted to sell me their remarkably-maintained, very gently-used cars that their grandma drove to church and back.
Hold on to your cash; a good trailer will come around!
When I was shopping used cars, it occurred to me that I had better luck shopping the sellers, not their cars. And that's how it is.

[Shangie]

From your own country's government: Personal-use property

When you sell personal-use property, such as cars and boats, in most cases you do not end up with a capital gain. This is because this type of property usually does not increase in value over the years. As a result, you may end up with a loss. Although you have to report any gain on the sale of personal-use property, generally you are not allowed to claim a loss.

In the USA we have to declare profits on personal property transactions as well. it is rare to make a profit but it would not be for a flipper unless of course they take cash only. No paper trail, no receipts, etc. Most people here are not aware of that. We actually sold a boat at a profit on paper but our accountant used our receipts to offset capital gains. At least in Canada if that occurs the rate is less.

For more information, see Personal-use property.

Originally Posted by Mikmay

I believe in the US if you make your trailer your second home you can write off expenses including financing but this may of changed ,if you are taking the Wright off and you sell that trailer for more than you paid you could be subject to capital gains .if you are In Canada no way unless your trailer is used for business . It’s rare that you would buy $200.000 motor home and sell it for more than you paid but fg trailers may do the opposite in some instances.

[Shangie]

Jon, Those are great questions to ask about the axle. I actually was able to use them today and to pass onto a friend also looking for a vintage trailer.

I read them and thought "Duh', why didn't I think of that" and then remembered that is why I enjoy this forum. Once we get our FG trailer, I hope to have some contributions instead of just questions.

Am looking at a trailer next Thursday that has receipts attached to it! Receipts for the paint job done a few years ago, the new propane furnace, etc. Am excited about that. The frame is original as is the axle. The price reflects that. Those are things we can send out to have redone. The seller and I chatted for an hour and he is doing a video in a day or so when he can get to it. He has owned it for many years and has maintained it, replacing things as needed. All very good and indicative of a person who is wanting to be forthcoming. He is a receipt keeper like me. We are out there. Anyway, we are going to try this experiment of going small to see if we actually do go more and hopefully his trailer will be the one that gets this going.

Autumn notes are already filling the evening air with songs of cozy camping along noisy rivers. It's a great time to camp in the PNW. I would imagine Arizona is also spectacular this time of year. Thanks for all your help Jon.

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Vintage molded trailers are not really "collectibles," so yes and no. Someone doing a true restoration or resto-mod and intending to resell at some point would probably keep receipts. But some people just do a bit here and a bit there over a long ownership, more in the way of routine maintenance and updates. They might then call it "restored" upon sale, but...well... people use words rather loosely.

It shouldn't be too hard to distinguish an original vintage axle from a new-ish upgrade with a visual inspection and maybe a lift test. A few seemingly casual questions can also quickly expose a lie, such as who installed it, where they ordered it (if DIY), and (for an axle) what the weight and arm specs are.

Despite the inflated market, I have seen newer 13'ers in decent condition for around your budget. Done give in to desperation, and don't give up. There's one out there!

[Shangie]

Yes, it would be rare but we had a capital gain on a boat sale that was offset with receipts. First time that happened for us- it's usually a loss or break even depending on how long we've had the item.

Originally Posted by Mikmay

I believe in the US if you make your trailer your second home you can write off expenses including financing but this may of changed ,if you are taking the Wright off and you sell that trailer for more than you paid you could be subject to capital gains .if you are In Canada no way unless your trailer is used for business . It’s rare that you would buy $200.000 motor home and sell it for more than you paid but fg trailers may do the opposite in some instances.

[Shangie]

You survived your thin days! And in New York City! I wonder if some people get pleasure from coning others, viewing the person as deserving what they get if they bite? Hopefully that is a small minority of humans. I still think most sellers don't know what they have so best to be educated on how to be a good inspector. I think it is more difficult to turn back odometers these days.

It takes persistence and knowledge to find good used items. We have had two major appliances that were not bottom of the line and well researched that failed within two to three years of service. An extended warranty on both saved us lots of money. One they couldn't repair because they couldn't get the parts from China until next year (fridge). In forty years of owning appliances this is a first for us. We replaced a 22 year old working fridge when we purchased this home only to buy costly crap. Our friends had a thousand dollar dishwasher catch on fire last year- good thing they were home. The pressure for profits is unsustainable.

And yes, I agree, a good trailer will come and in the meanwhile I will keep my running shoes on. . Thanks for the encouragement!

Originally Posted by Dmitry

One word - RUN.
Your story reminds me of my "thin days", years more like, when I was rather poor, and went shopping for a used car. I had no one to advise me, a new immigrant that I was. Of course, nobody would be heartless enough to take advantage of someone like myself in New York City. I've only met amazing people who wanted to sell me their remarkably-maintained, very gently-used cars that their grandma drove to church and back.
Hold on to your cash; a good trailer will come around!
When I was shopping used cars, it occurred to me that I had better luck shopping the sellers, not their cars. And that's how it is.

[Cynthia in Montana]

Since you enjoy the scenery on your search road trips, do consider the NOG gathering at Fort Henry—-near Astoria. The Friday & Saturday day shifts are open & attendees will likely be doing the you-show-me-yours-&-I’ll-show-you-mine thing. We all have stories, opinions, & experiences. On Donna’s Rally thread there are plenty of lookie-loos welcome. And FG campers from Washington, etc. Questions easily answered—-all your eggs in one basket!