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02-25-2014, 06:20 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
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The LX470s are real sweet what with the genuine simulated elm burl plasticky cabin (love that word) overlays. Pricey new. Pricey used.
jack
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02-25-2014, 07:03 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Trailer: 93 Burro 17 ft
Posts: 6,024
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Preemptive strike, Francesca?
Add the Toyota Venza and Nissan Pathfinder to the list of possibles. (The older, truck based Pathfinder)
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02-25-2014, 08:00 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Magee
Preemptive strike, Francesca?
Add the Toyota Venza )
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Have a friend who tows one of the original 17' Escapes with the Toyota Venza and is VERY happy with it. They do use a light equalizer hitch with it though.
Edit to add: when properly equipped from the factory it can have up to a 3500lb tow capacity or so I was told.
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02-25-2014, 10:54 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Trailer: Casita
Posts: 651
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I have a Chrysler Town & Country mini van. It has a towing capacity of 3600lbs. The new ones have increased the horsepower. I think they have in the optional towing package a load leveler & sway control. Lots of room for "stuff" in the van if you lower all the Stow-n-Go seats. It pulls my 16' Casita with ease. I believe the towing package also includes a transmission cooler.
Trailer Sway Control+
Standard Trailer Sway Control+ determines if your trailer is swaying in a dangerous manner and helps to correct the situation. It recognizes when unique vehicle and/or trailer motion is occurring that isn’t caused by steering input. The system then applies brake pressure on alternating wheels and may adjust engine throttle to help eliminate the sway and maintain vehicle and trailer system stability.
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02-26-2014, 07:47 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
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Venza Towing Capacity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H
Have a friend who tows one of the original 17' Escapes with the Toyota Venza and is VERY happy with it. They do use a light equalizer hitch with it though.
Edit to add: when properly equipped from the factory it can have up to a 3500lb tow capacity or so I was told.
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A funny thing happened to the Toyota Venza tow rating.
Up until 2013 it was up to 3500 lbs "when properly equipped".
For 2014 it is only 1000 lbs., the factory hitch is the smaller 1 1/4 drawbar, and they don't seem to offer a heavier towing package in the options list.
Here's a link:
Toyota Venza Interior, Exterior & Safety features
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02-26-2014, 10:39 AM
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#26
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Senior Member
Name: Chris
Trailer: Scamp 16
New Hampshire
Posts: 166
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Honda CRV: You're right about towing capacity. All models are 1,500lbs.
Toyota Venza: Ugly (sorry)
Chrysler Town & Country: No kids = no minivans
Honda Pilot: Higher on my price range for one with less than 30k miles. C&D didn't have anything nice to say about it back in 2011 other than it is the minivan of SUVs (see my comment above for how I would react to that). They appear to have addressed some of the complaints for 2012 but if my goal is to get down to $25k price point I'm looking on dealer lots at mostly 2011s. 2012s bump to $27k and 2013s are $30k+.
Hyundai Santa Fe LWB: The long wheel base Santa Fe (not the Sport model) looks promising as well but a quick check of dealer lots shows no pre-owned. A coworker mentioned her daughter got one after previously owning a CRV and she has been enjoying it.
Toyota Highlander: I think its just too big and I don't see the price lining up with my budget.
Toyota RAV4: Looks like new ones don't have the towing capacity and pre-owned ones are hard to come by. Couldn't find anything in dealer inventory.
Ford Escape: I did some more research on the 2013+ escape. Couldn't find any on dealer lots with the tow package but it appears any 2.0T comes with the transmission cooler. The tow package only adds the hitch (which I can get aftermarket), the 4-pin harness (I'll be using a 7-pin anyway), and some ECU modifications that use ABS to combat sway. There are no upgrades to suspension or cooling. So having one with a tow package is a nice-to-have but think I'd be fine choosing from dealer stock of non-tow package 2.0Ts.
Mazda CX-9: I have yet to find a bad review about this SUV. They claim it drives much smaller than it actually is (I can attest to that). Gas mileage is lagging a little behind and won't be as good as the Ford Escape for sure but everything else looks fine.
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02-26-2014, 11:19 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Miller
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A funny thing happened to the Toyota Venza tow rating.
Up until 2013 it was up to 3500 lbs "when properly equipped".
For 2014 it is only 1000 lbs., the factory hitch is the smaller 1 1/4 drawbar, and they don't seem to offer a heavier towing package in the options list.
Here's a link:
Toyota Venza Interior, Exterior & Safety features
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Don't think Bob when I looked at them last year that the 4 cyl. LE you have linked to ever did have a 3500lb tow cap - seem to think it was always only 1000lbs - could be wrong on that though .
The XLE 6 cyl for 2014 still has the the 3500lb tow capacity when properly equipped.
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02-26-2014, 11:54 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Name: Eric
Trailer: Scamp 13
Michigan
Posts: 256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuyler1
Requirements:
Towing capacity of 2,700 lbs or better
Mileage less than 30,000 (with a little factory warranty left over)
Price less than $30,000 (ideally around $25,000)
Room for a full size greyhound (wagons and suvs primarily since he won't sit on a backseat)
Desired features: Heated seats, leather, auto climate, keyless entry, bluetooth, fun to drive.
Nice to have: backup camera, nav
Non starters: Anything from GM or Jeep. Sorry but the build quality is simply not up to my standards.
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Have you considered some of the minivans? I think I read you are not looking for any serious off road capability. I believe they meet your criteria. They have loads of space for storage and a dog. I tow a 13' scamp with a 2007 Honda Odyssey and have been very happy. With a tow package it is rated to 3500 lbs. I believe a number of people here tow with minivans and a number of the minivans offered can tow 3500lbs properly equipped.
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02-26-2014, 12:44 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Name: Chris
Trailer: Scamp 16
New Hampshire
Posts: 166
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Nope, sorry. No minivans. If it has a sliding door I'm not interested. Married with no kids in our 30s. SUVs are still "sporty" and covey an outdoorsy lifestyle (which we have). Minivans convey the exact opposite. I don't need cup holders for juice boxes, rear seat entertainment, and cargo compartments for toys and soccer balls.
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02-26-2014, 01:31 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Trailer: Casita
Posts: 651
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Ok, to each his own but chrysler mini vans with stow-n-go seats are very well set up for our type of campers up to the 16' size. It's just the wife and I and we leave the seats stowed down in the floor. That creates a ton of wide open cargo space. I haven't seen anything mentioned on this thread short of a suburban or pickup that will beat it. Of course if one needs some 4X4 time it wouldn't do.
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02-26-2014, 01:32 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuyler1
Ford Escape: I did some more research on the 2013+ escape. Couldn't find any on dealer lots with the tow package but it appears any 2.0T comes with the transmission cooler. The tow package only adds the hitch (which I can get aftermarket), the 4-pin harness (I'll be using a 7-pin anyway), and some ECU modifications that use ABS to combat sway. There are no upgrades to suspension or cooling. So having one with a tow package is a nice-to-have but think I'd be fine choosing from dealer stock of non-tow package 2.0Ts.
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I'm a born skeptic when it comes to add-ons that jack up the price of a vehicle...I'd laugh out loud if someone tried to sell me "undercoating", for example. But sometimes such options really are more appropriate when factory installed and I think that this may be one of those cases.
Assuming we're talking about current models, Ford's towing guide for the Escape at this link indicates that the factory-installed tow package is required for the upper tow limit of 3500 pounds- unless so equipped, maximum capacity is 2,000 pounds regardless of engine size/type. I think this limitation is likely due to the package's included anti-sway system similar to Chrysler's above that can't be installed later.
It's interesting to note at that page that the frontal area "limitations" on the car also increase by a whopping 50% with the factory tow package, from 20 to 30 sq. feet. To my mind this is no small consideration since even our little trailers present quite a bit more frontal area than that, average being more in the 45 sq. foot range. (It should be noted that the seeming "lowness" of those factory numbers is due to the primary market for these small towers being those folks pulling boats, utility trailers, and perhaps popups, which present far less frontal area to the wind. )
Increased frontal area greatly affects performance- the car's efficiency declines as the area increases over mfr. numbers. For many vehicles, the most "felt" decline is power and gas mileage, but stability is also affected. That anti-sway system (which can't be installed after the Escape leaves the factory) helps with that and may well be the primary reason for the tow limit differences stated at that page.
__________________
............... ..................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
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02-26-2014, 01:50 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Name: Arlon
Trailer: 2002 Casita Bunk Delux
Texas
Posts: 149
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If you like the outdoors, look for something in 4wd/AWD, opens a lot of territory for boon docking and hitting backroads from camp. Can't imagine towing much of anything with an Escape. We have a V6 Edge and it has a really low towing capacity (2500 lbs). They newer Explorers would probably have enough tow capacity. Few complain about having too much towing capacity but a lot of complainers about too little.
I also have an X-terra with a 6 speed manual trans. It would have little problem towing that trailer. It is a good daily driver and goes anywhere after the trailer is parked. The manual transmission in these is the same as the Z car, it has a tall reverse gear and I have to use 4 low when backing to keep from frying the clutch. It will do 30 mph in reverse but it won't back up much of a trailer, especially if there is a hill involved.
__________________
2002 Casita 17' Bunk Model Delux (replaced 28' 5th wheel)
2003 Dodge/Cummins quad cab (daily driver/tow vehicle of choice)
2005 AWD Astro Van/camper (my solo camper)
2006 Xterra MT (for sale)
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02-26-2014, 04:30 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Name: Chris
Trailer: Scamp 16
New Hampshire
Posts: 166
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I understand it is certainly more desirable to find an Escape with the package...but if it turns out to be a very rare option I'm not going to pay an $8k premium to special order a 2014 if I can get a 2013 without it and install aftermarket sway control. I'm not too concerned about frontal area. I'm not expecting great gas mileage while towing and if road conditions (wind, rain, etc) dictate I drive slower, I will. I towed all last summer with the itty bitty truck in my signature. No frontal area or horsepower issues that weren't solved by simply driving slow. However this summer we plan to venture further from home and I don't want to be hunting down a rotary mechanic when something goes wrong 1,000 miles from home.
I guess I didn't mention 4WD/AWD in my original post. That's a given for someone living year round in New Hampshire. We got hit hard with snow this year and a few times the only way I got out of my driveway was with AWD.
Thanks for the positive marks about the XTerra Arlon. I'd certainly be looking at a stick shift if I selected the XTerra. I would have never thought to use 4-low while reversing. Issues I have with the xterra are no auto climate controls, keyless access/ignition, heated seats, and gas mileage. Furthermore, its nearly impossible to find a manual transmission one. I found 3 within 100 miles and none looked promising.
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02-26-2014, 04:51 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuyler1
I understand it is certainly more desirable to find an Escape with the package...but if it turns out to be a very rare option I'm not going to pay an $8k premium to special order a 2014 if I can get a 2013 without it and install aftermarket sway control. .
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One more consideration you may want to keep in mind when shopping for new/near new vehicles is warranty coverage. Many folks don't care about such things, but if you do here's a heads up that overtowing without specifically required equipment can result in warranty voidance.
I'm not promoting the Escape, but since that's the vehicle we're talking about I'll quote Ford on that subject, from the link I posted earlier:
Quote:
Required Equipment
Includes items that must be installed.* Your New Vehicle Limited Warranty (see your dealer for a copy) may be voided if you tow without them.
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Other manufacturers will often impose similar language, so do read the fine print if this is something you care about.
Best of luck in your search!
__________________
............... ..................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
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02-26-2014, 04:52 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuyler1
I guess I didn't mention 4WD/AWD in my original post. That's a given for someone living year round in New Hampshire. We got hit hard with snow this year and a few times the only way I got out of my driveway was with AWD.
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Did you take the Subaru Outback 2800lbs or 3000lb tow cap depending on model for a spin yet?
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02-26-2014, 05:03 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Name: Chris
Trailer: Scamp 16
New Hampshire
Posts: 166
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I haven't driven the Outback yet. My friend just bought an Impreza Sport. It rides nice and the interior is OK. I'll see if I can find one with the right options in my price range.
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02-26-2014, 05:14 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Trailer: 93 Burro 17 ft
Posts: 6,024
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There's nothing wrong with the 2012 and earlier Escapes, either. Some FGRV members tow with the previous model Escape and like it.
The electronic anti-sway thing is not worth any money to me either. I towed for years without it, don't see the need for it, and would never miss it.
The Highlander and the Santa Fe are pretty much the same size. Maybe the HL just looks bigger? But anyway, yes the resale prices are pretty high. Now if you didn't mind one with 160,000 miles on it, I could be persuaded to sell mine. Planning to replace it with a Jeep Grand Cherokee this summer. Yes, yes, reliability and repair costs and all that... but I will get a lifetime max care contract, which should absorb much of the sting.
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02-26-2014, 08:17 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Trailer: U-Haul VT16
Posts: 982
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Our 09 Mariner pulled our Bigfoot with no problems. AW Drive, after market hitch.
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02-26-2014, 08:51 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Name: Chris
Trailer: Scamp 16
New Hampshire
Posts: 166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Magee
Planning to replace it with a Jeep Grand Cherokee this summer. Yes, yes, reliability and repair costs and all that... but I will get a lifetime max care contract, which should absorb much of the sting.
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I've heard the Grand Cherokee is the diamond in the ruff when it comes to Jeeps. I rode in one last summer and was very surprised by it. Our last Jeep was a Dodge Nitro R/T (aka Liberty). Very quick and sporty in a straight line but had a dead zone while turning. Had seals in the rear diff replaced twice. When the A/C stopped working with less than 50k and they wouldn't repair it we topped off the refrigerant one last time and traded it in. I don't think we even went through a set of tires on it actually.
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02-26-2014, 10:29 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arlon
If you like the outdoors, look for something in 4wd/AWD, opens a lot of territory for boon docking and hitting backroads from camp. Can't imagine towing much of anything with an Escape. We have a V6 Edge and it has a really low towing capacity (2500 lbs). They newer Explorers would probably have enough tow capacity. Few complain about having too much towing capacity but a lot of complainers about too little.
I also have an X-terra with a 6 speed manual trans. It would have little problem towing that trailer. It is a good daily driver and goes anywhere after the trailer is parked. The manual transmission in these is the same as the Z car, it has a tall reverse gear and I have to use 4 low when backing to keep from frying the clutch. It will do 30 mph in reverse but it won't back up much of a trailer, especially if there is a hill involved.
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I don't really have to imagine towing with an Escape since we have been doing so for eight years now with excellent results and no unscheduled maintenance.
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