Scamp or Escape?

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Fran L

I ditto the remarks of the folks who went from Scamp to Escape. We did too. Had a Scamp 16,' then a Scamp Deluxe 19' and now an Escape 5.0 classic single axle. All were purchased used. No regrets on moving over to Escape. Cant remember ever reading a post about anyone going from Escape to Scamp....

Few people go smaller...., ever heard of a Plecostomus?

Most of the few Scamp owners who have made the transition to Escape, have done so for the increase in size.
The only reason I have not gone from an Escape to a Scamp is that I bought the Scamp first, obviating the need.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by floyd

Few people go smaller...., ever heard of a Plecostomus?

Most of the few Scamp owners who have made the transition to Escape, have done so for the increase in size.

Sorry, but you are putting thoughts in other people’s minds. There is no way you can possibly know the reason why so many more people have gone from Scamp to Escape.

The only reason I have not gone from an Escape to a Scamp is that I bought the Scamp first, obviating the need.

Cute! As you well know, from many prior discussions with me I went from Scamp to Escape because I personally found my Scamp to be the biggest POS travel trailer I ever owned, definitely obviating the need for my own sanity, peace of mind, and continuation of the RV enjoyment before I made the mistake of thinking that Scamp would be perfect for me. I’m not afraid to admit I personally made a mistake. As I stated earlier, maybe I got a lemon, but it wasn’t just the trailer; it was also the lies and other BS I was subjected to by Eveland’s. I get it. Some people love their Scamps. As you said in a previous post, there is a “perfect” trailer for everyone. Your Scamp is the perfect trailer for you. My Scamp was a nightmare for me. While I will not attribute motivations for the actions of others, I am more inclined to think that people transitioning to Escape (or any other brand) from Scamp could result from (as well as a possible desire for increased size) dissatisfaction with Scamp or a perception that the other brand will better fit their needs, or in other words, is a more perfect trailer for them. From the tone of your post, I surely hope the overwhelming numbers involved in the Scamp to Escape migration in not distressing you. However, and I am sure you are aware that marketing is based on the fact that different people have different preferences. If that were not the case, there would only be Coke; Pepsi would not exist.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by CPW

Cute! As you well know, from many prior discussions with me I went from Scamp to Escape because I personally found my Scamp to be the biggest POS travel trailer I ever owned, definitely obviating the need for my own sanity, peace of mind, and continuation of the RV enjoyment before I made the mistake of thinking that Scamp would be perfect for me. I’m not afraid to admit I personally made a mistake. As I stated earlier, maybe I got a lemon, but it wasn’t just the trailer; it was also the lies and other BS I was subjected to by Eveland’s. I get it. Some people love their Scamps. As you said in a previous post, there is a “perfect” trailer for everyone. Your Scamp is the perfect trailer for you. My Scamp was a nightmare for me. While I will not attribute motivations for the actions of others, I am more inclined to think that people transitioning to Escape (or any other brand) from Scamp could result from (as well as a possible desire for increased size) dissatisfaction with Scamp or a perception that the other brand will better fit their needs, or in other words, is a more perfect trailer for them. From the tone of your post, I surely hope the overwhelming numbers involved in the Scamp to Escape migration in not distressing you. However, and I am sure you are aware that marketing is based on the fact that different people have different preferences. If that were not the case, there would only be Coke; Pepsi would not exist.

The ONLY REASON we went from our 17 ft Casita to a 21 ft Escape was “SIZE”
It wasn’t because of a better floor plan or better build quality or because of Escapes so called fabulous option package or styling or interior colors , or to go from sliding windows that didn’t leak to awning windows that do ,or the fake wood cabinets, or price , or prestige or any other intangible , imaginary, quality / asset , it was strictly SIZE !!
We wanted a bigger bumper pull trailer which Escape offered and Scamp and Casita did not . If Casita would have offered a larger trailer , we would be towing a Casita today , and if Casita does come out with a larger trailer in the future , we will be the first in line , with our money in hand

Floyd hit the nail on the head —“SIZE MATTERS” !

[MyronL]

Since I am 6 ft 7 inches tall if size mattered to me I wouldn't buy any fiberglass trailer. The thing I loved the most about my 16 ft Scamp was removing and sealing over about 40 rivets. That was fun.

[Perryb67]

We owned a 2001 Scamp 16' side bath, 2007 Casita 17' Spirit, and now a 2018 Escape 5.0.

I really dislike the caps on the outside of Scamps and Casitas.

Shredded a tire on our Scamp and destroyed that plastic (?) wheelwell. The wheelwells on the Casita and Scamp are fiberglass and will survive the blowout.

The door on the Scamp has a tendency to leak and can droop. Casita, and now Escape, use standard flat doors. Our Scamp door did not fit flush to the body, so I had to play gasket games to close the gap.

The bi-fold screen on our Scamp was a PITA.

The Casita felt like it's design was lightyears ahead of our Scamp. The bed was 6" wider (?) so we no longer had to sleep head to toe. I liked the fiberglass cabinets, but my wife likes the wood in our Escape.

We had 13" tires on the Scamp and 14" tires on the Casita, giving more clearance and never had the rear end hit the ground in a forest service dip, like happened a couple of times with the Scamp.

We felt the design and quality was much, much better with the Casita over the Scamp. I'd put the quality of the Casita at a par with our Escape.

Did I mention I really dislike the rivet/screw caps on the Scamp and Casita? There are none on Escapes.

In the end though, if you're happy, and it gets you camping, you're in the right camper.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Shredded a tire on our Scamp and destroyed that plastic (?) wheelwell. The wheelwells on the Casita and Scamp are fiberglass and will survive the blowout.

I don't understand this paragraph. It seems to contradict itself.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

The ONLY REASON we went from our 17 ft Casita to a 21 ft Escape was “SIZE”
It wasn’t because of a better floor plan or better build quality or because of Escapes so called fabulous option package or styling or interior colors , or to go from sliding windows that didn’t leak to awning windows that do ,or the fake wood cabinets, or price , or prestige or any other intangible , imaginary, quality / asset , it was strictly SIZE !!
We wanted a bigger bumper pull trailer which Escape offered and Scamp and Casita did not . If Casita would have offered a larger trailer , we would be towing a Casita today , and if Casita does come out with a larger trailer in the future , we will be the first in line , with our money in hand

Floyd hit the nail on the head —“SIZE MATTERS” !

Steve, you totally missed my point. If size matters, many people would not be in 13 foot trailers. Floyd May have hit the nail on the head for some, but not everyone goes from Scamp to Escape or from Casita to Oliver for size alone. I went from a Scamp 19 to and Escape 5.0TA because my Scamp was a POS, and I repeat, a total POS. You should understand what I am saying because many of your posts including this one (implying that you will go back to Casita if they were to come out with a larger trailer). My Escape is not the POS that my Scamp was. I could have gone to a Casita, but I wanted a connection in the truck bed, i.e., a 5th wheel type connection. Honestly, if I were single I like the layout of the Scamp 16 front bathroom better than the Escape 17. But I would not buy another Scamp at any price. It’s kind of like having a malignant tumor removed; you hope there are no relapses. And frankly, you too are assuming that you know the reason why everyone who changes does so. Sorry, but I find no validity in an absolute statement.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by CPW

Steve, you totally missed my point. If size matters, many people would not be in 13 foot trailers. Floyd May have hit the nail on the head for some, but not everyone goes from Scamp to Escape or from Casita to Oliver for size alone. I went from a Scamp 19 to and Escape 5.0TA because my Scamp was a POS, and I repeat, a total POS. You should understand what I am saying because many of your posts including this one (implying that you will go back to Casita if they were to come out with a larger trailer). My Escape is not the POS that my Scamp was. I could have gone to a Casita, but I wanted a connection in the truck bed, i.e., a 5th wheel type connection. Honestly, if I were single I like the layout of the Scamp 16 front bathroom better than the Escape 17. But I would not buy another Scamp at any price. It’s kind of like having a malignant tumor removed; you hope there are no relapses. And frankly, you too are assuming that you know the reason why everyone who changes does so. Sorry, but I find no validity in an absolute statement.

You are correct, not everyone buys a larger trailer just to get a larger trailer but from all the posts I’ve read that’s seems to be the prevailing rational
My point was that I would not trade my 17 ft Casita for a 17 ft Escape because to me it represents zero gain .
The only thing I gained by going from my 17 ft Casita to a 21 ft Escape was 4 feet of space and a ton more headaches
I would not describe my Escape as a POS but considering the cost there are far to many defects to suit me.
We owned a 16 ft Scamp and had only a few minor issues but I accept the fact that your experience was totally different .
Your experience with Scamp appears to echo my experiences with Escape and since I am not willing to spend the money for an Oliver or Bigfoot , I have no choice but to stay with the status quo .

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

You are correct, not everyone buys a larger trailer just to get a larger trailer but from all the posts I’ve read that’s seems to be the prevailing rational
My point was that I would not trade my 17 ft Casita for a 17 ft Escape because to me it represents zero gain .
The only thing I gained by going from my 17 ft Casita to a 21 ft Escape was 4 feet of space and a ton more headaches
I would not describe my Escape as a POS but considering the cost there are far to many defects to suit me.
We owned a 16 ft Scamp and had only a few minor issues but I accept the fact that your experience was totally different .
Your experience with Scamp appears to echo my experiences with Escape and since I am not willing to spend the money for an Oliver or Bigfoot , I have no choice but to stay with the status quo .

That’s fair. I would say we are, for the most part, in agreement. About a year ago you told me why you were less than satisfied with your Escape and it is understandable. My Scamp was perhaps not a total POS but I must have had the worst customer service experience with Scamp since it’s inception. That did not help my perception of Scamp one bit.

I will say about half of the “migrants” I have corresponded with spoke changed to upsize, the other 50% did so for “other” reasons. About a year ago or so I heard rumors that Casita was considering something larger than the 17. I don’t know if anything came of it, but maybe you will get your wish. I can honestly say I would not upsize. The 5.0TA (fiberglass shell) is about one inch longer than the 21, and I have no desire to maneuver anything larger. But I agree, you are correct about our experiences being similar. My Escape has not had any of the quality issues I experienced with the Scamp 19, and it eliminated all of what I considered to be “poor” design in the Scamp 19.

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

You are correct, not everyone buys a larger trailer just to get a larger trailer but from all the posts I’ve read that’s seems to be the prevailing rational
My point was that I would not trade my 17 ft Casita for a 17 ft Escape because to me it represents zero gain .
The only thing I gained by going from my 17 ft Casita to a 21 ft Escape was 4 feet of space and a ton more headaches
I would not describe my Escape as a POS but considering the cost there are far to many defects to suit me.
We owned a 16 ft Scamp and had only a few minor issues but I accept the fact that your experience was totally different .
Your experience with Scamp appears to echo my experiences with Escape and since I am not willing to spend the money for an Oliver or Bigfoot , I have no choice but to stay with the status quo .

Actually, I bought a bigger trailer, going from an Escape 17 to an Escape 21 so I could have an oven. I didn't need the extra space, but have to admit I use all 4'!

[floyd]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Since I am 6 ft 7 inches tall if size mattered to me I wouldn't buy any fiberglass trailer. The thing I loved the most about my 16 ft Scamp was removing and sealing over about 40 rivets. That was fun.

Easily prevented with proper cap management, Every cap base on my 16YO trailer is tight, dry, and original.
Twice I have spent less than $10 and twenty minutes for overall cap replacement, even though my Scamp is not structurally assembled using rivets.


You don't say what year your Escape is, but did you have the frame replaced or repaired on recall?


I have repeatedly praised the Escape, but I tire of those (non-specific people) who try to make a whipping boy out of Scamp which is a fine trailer and occupies a niche in the industry which made it tolerable to own and use a travel trailer.


Fiberglass trailers have always been industry leaders in terms of quality and value. Some folks who wanted to trade from a Scamp to an Escape may not have been able to do so if they had owned some stick built SOB.
Resale is so good that complaining about the quality is not only obviated, but a bit perplexing when you could find an eager buyer in just a few days and get a great price.. Even if it had been abused.

I know of those who have sold their Escapes and moved to BigFoot, Oliver, or Casita, some even to stickbuilts.


Even if the Escape were the finest trailer ever made, it simple would not meet the needs or desires of every buyer. The Escape buyer should be glad that others want something else, or there would be a long wait and a high price for one.
I doubt I'll be in that line any time soon.

[stevebaz]

"Steve, you totally missed my point. If size matters, many people would not be in 13 foot trailers."

That may be true but we cant measure either, no matter how hard I pull on my tape measure I cant get my scamp 13 past 10 feet. No wonder people move up.

So people with huge trailers like Scamp 16, Casitas 17, Escape 17, 19, 21,5.0 are they being cheated too?

[MyronL]

We know it, the best thing about any fiberglass trailer if comparing to the stick-builds is their wonderful durability against the elements.

The worst thing (for me) is their general shortness of head room. I walked into a great looking stickie once and the head room was so grand I swear, I could install the pipes for my theater organ in it (if I had a theater organ.)

My Scamp, if I still had it, would be 34 years old today. In regards to that old shell, no worries for its new owner. Ah, just a fish out of water. So smooth, so pretty.

Oh, my Escape is a 2013. It's two by four inch framing is not subject to any recall and is, well, as you might suspect, perfect.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by floyd

Even if the Escape were the finest trailer ever made, it simple would not meet the needs or desires of every buyer. The Escape buyer should be glad that others want something else, or there would be a long wait and a high price for one.
I doubt I'll be in that line any time soon.

Floyd, I have absolutely no idea how one would define or determine that which would be classified as the finest trailer ever made. I do not believe Escape has any claim to that title nor do I believe Scamp deserves it either. And while I have posted disparaging comments regarding the Scamp I owned and my experiences with the manufacturer, it is not because the comments were not deserved. Nor do I believe that expressing dissatisfaction with any given product or company constitutes a situation merits an analogy involving a “whipping boy.” My Scamp had seemingly endless issues which were a huge source of frustration. When I purchased it, I did not anticipate I would be spending three hours maintaining or repairing it for every hour I used it. OK, that’s a bit of an exaggeration, but it was more trouble than should be reasonably expected. As a result, I have no doubt that I will ever again be in the waiting line for another Scamp. My Escape has been everything to me that the Scamp wasn’t. Perhaps I should say it is everything I hoped the Scamp would be but unfortunately wasn’t. But I totally, 100% agree with you there is no trailer that would meet the needs or desires of every buyer. For some, that “perfect” trailer is a Scamp. For others, it is a Casita, an Escape, a Bigfoot, a Trillium, a Boler, a U-Haul, blah, blah, blah, etc. So maybe the finest trailer ever made is really a personal state of mind; it is the trailer that a totally satisfied consumer like you or me own, regardless of brand.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by CPW

Floyd, I have absolutely no idea how one would define or determine that which would be classified as the finest trailer ever made. I do not believe Escape has any claim to that title nor do I believe Scamp deserves it either. And while I have posted disparaging comments regarding the Scamp I owned and my experiences with the manufacturer, it is not because the comments were not deserved. Nor do I believe that expressing dissatisfaction with any given product or company constitutes a situation merits an analogy involving a “whipping boy.” My Scamp had seemingly endless issues which were a huge source of frustration. When I purchased it, I did not anticipate I would be spending three hours maintaining or repairing it for every hour I used it. OK, that’s a bit of an exaggeration, but it was more trouble than should be reasonably expected. As a result, I have no doubt that I will ever again be in the waiting line for another Scamp. My Escape has been everything to me that the Scamp wasn’t. Perhaps I should say it is everything I hoped the Scamp would be but unfortunately wasn’t. But I totally, 100% agree with you there is no trailer that would meet the needs or desires of every buyer. For some, that “perfect” trailer is a Scamp. For others, it is a Casita, an Escape, a Bigfoot, a Trillium, a Boler, a U-Haul, blah, blah, blah, etc. So maybe the finest trailer ever made is really a personal state of mind; it is the trailer that a totally satisfied consumer like you or me own, regardless of brand.

You missed my point about the "finest trailer ever made", it was a hypothetical.
You got my conclusion toward the end however.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by floyd

You missed my point about the "finest trailer ever made", it was a hypothetical.
You got my conclusion toward the end however.

It would be extremely difficult for anyone with even a moderate amount of intelligence to NOT realize your statement was hypothetical when it started “even if.” You are wrong, I knew what you were saying, and what your probable intentions were. I have had far too many conversations with you over the years not to know from where you are coming, and I would hope, you me. And I believe while we tend to “spar” with one another in good fun, we basically agree about many things. I just don’t share your good experiences with the company that built (or their product), what is for YOU, the finest trailer ever made.

[steve dunham]

I think it’s strange when people state that the FG trailer they bought is just perfect , , the build quality is excellent , not a single thing was wrong , everything was just perfect , and they would recommend their trailer to everyone , and yet those same people are on the forum regularly asking how to fix a roof leak or a window leak , or their battery won’t charge, or their water heater won’t light or my door fell off , or my cabinet hinges broke , or my plumbing leaks , or my frame cracked in half , or my counter top delaminated
, or my propane tray fell off , or my LED lights are strobing , etc ,etc etc , on to infinity
Since there is no established quality standards for FG trailers then they all can be fairly judged as the biggest POS in the world or the greatest thing on earth

I owned three different FG trailers ( Scamp , Casita , Escape ) and the quality of everyone left a lot to be desired .
There is no best , some are just less mediocre than the others .
I am partial to Casita not because ours was perfect but because it caused me far less problems / repairs / headaches / frustrations than our Escape .
As far as I am concerned the quality of all the FG trailers sucks , the good thing is they suck less than most stick builts . Not much of a compliment !!

My buddy bought a new stick built 5th wheel near the same time as we bought our new FG trailer
In the two years he’s owned his 5th wheel its been back to the dealer once for two minor repairs while I have done over 2 pages of repairs and I had no dealer to turn to so all the work fell on me .

[Alf S.]

Hi: steve dunham... If all that work fell on me I'd be under the gun!!! This comparison of these two trailers is so unfair. It's like looking at the diff. between a "Caddy" or a "Shove roll it".
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[steve dunham]

Good Morning Alf ; I hope the weather is good for your upcoming rally
I am sure it will be a great success as always !

[Alf S.]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Good Morning Alf ; I hope the weather is good for your upcoming rally
I am sure it will be a great success as always !

Hi: steve dunham... Our all Canadian Niagara Wine Escape attendees will attempt to have as much fun as we can, at a social distance!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie