Toyota Sienna towing Casita

[EllPea in CA]

Hello,

I have friend who recently bought a Toyota Sienna in preparation for towing a new Casita, which he is picking up in May.

He was telling me last night a kind of horror story about the "tow package" the vehicle came with... not a 7-pin, not even a 4-pin, but a THREE PIN plug with nothing to handle brakes.

He says the dealer did not have a clue, he couldn't get answers from Toyota. Service people have pulled out his dashboard to run wiring, he's spent an extra $1k or probably more, and given all of this I personally would not have confidence the problem is solved.

We are in California, and he would be driving back alone to get the Casita in Texas. Should I be worried?

[Glenn Baglo]

My Highlander has the factory hitch. The trailer wiring and brake controller were installed by a competent, highly respected hitch shop prior to delivery of the vehicle.

[EllPea in CA]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

My Highlander has the factory hitch. The trailer wiring and brake controller were installed by a competent, highly respected hitch shop prior to delivery of the vehicle.

This looks exceptionally nice. This is not the situation for him, am worried. Also, does the hive mind here think the Sienna is beefy enough for a 17' Casita?

[ShelbyM]

If this is the current Sienna, 3500# tow rating, it's an odd choice to tow a new Casita.

[FloridaNativeMike]

Let’s start with what year is the Sienna? Is it FWD or AWD? Some years, all Siennas came with the tow package and some years it was optional on all and some years it was standard on all FWD models.

For example, all 2004-2007 Siennas are rated to tow 3500 pounds with 525 pounds tongue weight when using weight distribution hitches (but highest capacity hitches are limited to 500 pounds).

All 2021+ Siennas (the hybrid ones) are rated to tow 3500 pounds with NO LIMIT on tongue weight as long as the GVWR, GCWR, and axle ratings are all honored. The current highest capacity hitch available has a 675 pound tongue weight rating. Trailer brakes/brake controller are of course a must have for something the size of a new Casita. So, if hybrid Sienna, I don’t see any reason to worry.

No Siennas come with or have available 7-pin trailer connectors or brake controllers, those must be installed aftermarket. Weight distributing hitch is a must IMO and is required for some years by Toyota for tongue weights above 350 pounds. I also highly recommend rear suspension air bags (if available - will be aftermarket only) on all Siennas that tow.

We are picking up our Casita 17SD (with many options) later this year with a 2007 Sienna FWD and plan to tow it with the minivan for at least a few years. We have the rear suspension air bags, will use the Anderson WDH, and have and will use a Tekonsha Prodigy brake controller. Our hitch is a Curt and is rated to tow 5000 pounds and 500 pounds tongue weight when using a WDH. I did all the wiring, including brake controller, trailer charge line, and reverse lights myself. I have towed a similar size and weight stick built trailer for several years early on when we bought the van new.

I have zero concerns about towing a Casita with our Sienna; I expect it will be easier to tow than our last travel trailer and it did a fine and safe job towing that trailer.

-Mike

[ShelbyM]

And yet most 17' Casitas are within a couple of hundred pounds of that 3500# limit and many are significantly over. https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/...rld-43010.html

[FloridaNativeMike]

Yes, but the typical loaded weights of Casita 17s would still be within the GVWR, GCWR, axle ratings and tongue weight ratings of the Sienna.

The way that Toyota rates the Sienna, it’s more like a 4000 or 4500 pound rating from an American labeled manufacturer. A Sienna can carry a considerable payload even while towing its “rated capacity”, WAY MORE than only the 200 pound driver that you will often see from American labeled manufacturers.

-Mike

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by FloridaNativeMike

Yes, but the typical loaded weights of Casita 17s

You seem to be trying to fix a problem.

[EllPea in CA]

Originally Posted by FloridaNativeMike

Let’s start with what year is the Sienna? Is it FWD or AWD? Some years, all Siennas came with the tow package and some years it was optional on all and some years it was standard on all FWD models.

-Mike

Mike, I don't have those answers yet. I texted and messaged him this morning after this worrisome discussion last night. I'm sure it's either 2021 or 2022... he bought it within the last 5 months.

I'm stunned to read that a hybrid might be better qualified to tow. Very interesting.

The tales he was telling about getting aftermarket 7-pin installed are hairraising. His dealer here is clearly not as knowledgeable about installing these things.

Likewise, when I bought my XC60 the Volvo dealer nearby knew nothing, but the salesmen were quite willing to spout a load of (can't find appropriate emogi). My independent Volvo mechanic OTOH knew exactly what to do (on the 2001 V70-- back then the Swedish electrics did not play nicely and needed friendly persuasion). And I went back to him to put the tow package on the 60... everything plays nicely so far.

It seems to me this should not be such a mystery these days for Toyota (and clearly some people here have an excellent tow package), which makes me worry that the Sienna was not intended for a tow load like this.

But your experience is clearly excellent, Mike, so I hope my friend can get his situation sorted. So far it is costing him a bundle. I'll post details on his TV when he responds. Obviously I'm going to recommend he join this forum!

[EllPea in CA]

OK, he just responded, and I would like to shoot whomever in our friend group told me he'd bought a Sienna...

"It's a Toyota Highlander, limited edition, gas powered, all wheel drive, has electronic trailer sway protection and the all-wheel drive system, I got the factory tow package which upon delivery I found only had a three-pin connector and Toyota has no provisions or wiring harness available to install a 7-pin connector. I went to trucks are us and it cost me about $800 for the digital trailer control and installation of which the major part was running two wires from the hitch in which they installed the seven pin connector to the dash panel where the controller was installed. It required about 4 hours of labor mainly because of the wire installation. I was hanging around so the time was accurate, if not actually a little longer.
The telluride by Kia factory installed system runs about $700 and includes a 3-pin and a 7-pin connector and I think a few more things but I'd have to look it up."

[FloridaNativeMike]

If it’s a 2021 or 2022 then it will definitely have the tow package as standard equipment (which does NOT include 7-pin connector or brake controller or receiver hitch). Do NOT get the receiver itself from Toyota, it is only Class II and is not rated high enough for a Casita.

If it’s AWD, then no air bags are available for it yet, only FWD. I figure in time someone will come out with airbags that fit the AWD.

I believe the best WDH for the Sienna currently is the Anderson available from Casita, it will work with any of the Class III receivers available for the gen4 Sienna.

They will need to get a reputable shop (most likely not a Toyota dealer) to install the brake controller wiring and 7-pin connector (or do it themselves).

My biggest question mark with the gen4 is the power available for towing. Max power requires the electric motors kicking in and obviously that is limited by available battery. Will a long steep grade at high altitude be slow going? I really do not know. I do not believe there are any safety concerns specific to towing with a hybrid.

-Mike

[FloridaNativeMike]

It’s definitely NOT a 3-pin. It’s a 4-pin. Sounds like he is good to go, now. Definitely should get the Anderson WDH.

-Mike

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by FloridaNativeMike

If it’s a 2021 or 2022 then it will definitely
-Mike

See post #10.

[ShelbyM]

Originally Posted by FloridaNativeMike

Yes, but the typical loaded weights of Casita 17s would still be within the GVWR, GCWR, axle ratings and tongue weight ratings of the Sienna.

The way that Toyota rates the Sienna, it’s more like a 4000 or 4500 pound rating from an American labeled manufacturer. A Sienna can carry a considerable payload even while towing its “rated capacity”, WAY MORE than only the 200 pound driver that you will often see from American labeled manufacturers.

-Mike

AFAIK, payload was never the concern. Fortunately, OP's friend has chosen an appropriate tow vehicle with a 5000# rating. It's odd that Toyota still doesn't offer a factory installed hitch and wiring on the more capable versions of the Highlander.

[FloridaNativeMike]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo;f837398

See post #10.

Thanks for the newsflash. That was posted while I was writing my response.

-Mike

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by EllPea in CA

OK, he just responded, and I would like to shoot whomever in our friend group told me he'd bought a Sienna...

"It's a Toyota Highlander, limited edition, gas powered, all wheel drive, has electronic trailer sway protection and the all-wheel drive system, I got the factory tow package which upon delivery I found only had a three-pin connector and Toyota has no provisions or wiring harness available to install a 7-pin connector. I went to trucks are us and it cost me about $800 for the digital trailer control and installation of which the major part was running two wires from the hitch in which they installed the seven pin connector to the dash panel where the controller was installed. It required about 4 hours of labor mainly because of the wire installation. I was hanging around so the time was accurate, if not actually a little longer.
The telluride by Kia factory installed system runs about $700 and includes a 3-pin and a 7-pin connector and I think a few more things but I'd have to look it up."

Your friend is good to go, except for the aftermarket hitch and wiring as already mentioned. It’s weird Toyota doesn’t offer the full trailer wiring, but it’s been like that for years. It’s one reason I went with a Pilot instead of a Highlander back in 2013.

[FloridaNativeMike]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

AFAIK, payload was never the concern. Fortunately, OP's friend has chosen an appropriate tow vehicle with a 5000# rating. It's odd that Toyota still doesn't offer a factory installed hitch and wiring on the more capable versions of the Highlander.

Go back and read my post carefully. My statement was not about payload by itself it was about payload while towing rated capacity. My Sienna will tow 3500 pounds WHILE CARRYING maximum payload (allowing for tongue weight). Most American labeled vehicles can only tow their max rating with some nominal amount of payload (such as only a 200 pound driver). Stated otherwise, what’s GCWR - tow vehicle curb weight? That resulting number is a lot more useful and more telling of a vehicle’s actual capacity than tow rating.

-Mike

[ShelbyM]

Originally Posted by FloridaNativeMike

Go back and read my post carefully. My statement was not about payload by itself it was about payload while towing rated capacity. My Sienna will tow 3500 pounds WHILE CARRYING maximum payload (allowing for tongue weight). Most American labeled vehicles can only tow their max rating with some nominal amount of payload (such as only a 200 pound driver). Stated otherwise, what’s GCWR - tow vehicle curb weight? That resulting number is a lot more useful and more telling of a vehicle’s actual capacity than tow rating.

-Mike

This is incorrect. Toyota and all "American labeled vehicles" use the same standard, J2807. It's true the Sienna has a decent payload, but it's still a 3500# tow rating. That makes it marginal for a 17' Casita and the owner of such a combo would be well advised to weigh his trailer. Seems the odds are about even that the Casita will be over 3500#. I wonder if Casita would weigh yours before you pick it up? Would be a bummer to get out there and find out you couldn't bring it home.

[FRED SMAILES]

We tow our ~1500lb boler with a Sienna, been everywhere.
So probably 2000lbs or so of total weight.
Yes it does a good job but I sure wouldn't want to double the load.

[Jon in AZ]

I did some investigating. I don’t think it’s quite true (that you can carry the full payload AND still tow the full rated trailer weight), but it is true that Toyota’s ratings are higher than expected. For the record I researched a 2018 Sienna FWD with the conventional gas V6 drivetrain. I don’t know how the new hybrid powertrain, with its heavy battery pack and electric motors might have changed the calculations.

Curb weight of the gas V6 is about 4500#, and GVWR is 6000#, yielding a 1500# payload, which is pretty typical for this class.

What surprised me is the GCWR, which is 8900#. Subtracting the curb weight of 4500# and a maximal 3500# trailer, you still have 900# of remaining payload available, not the full 1500#, but more than the 2@165# specified by J2807.

I didn’t research rear axle weight limit. I suspect- with a Casita 17 at least- that’s where you run into problems first. Whether it can be overcome with WDH is hard to say, but with a fairly low-slung vehicle to begin with, you could end up dragging your hitch on every speed bump and driveway apron.