Tow vehicle for 16’ scamp

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by RM Northwest

Again, thank you for taking the time to share this advice. Appreciate it all.

By the way, having five adults plus pooches and any gear in the tow vehicle will deduct from your payload capacity, which will reduce your available rated tongue weight capacity and will generally also reduce your rated towing capacity...

It's best to learn everything you can about the whole alphabet soup of weight ratings as everything affects everything. There's a lot of "fine print" involved, especially where payload is concerned. Many highly-optioned pickup trucks have payload limitations that basically make their advertised tow ratings unobtainable.

Also, your trailer choice may evolve or be heavier than you think. Our Escape 21 trailer was delivered with 525 lbs of factory options over and above the published dry weight. The published tongue weight is 360 lbs, but owners regularly report tongue weights in excess of 500 lbs and the factory label in the trailer notes that the tongue weight is rated to go as high as 700 lbs.

At least one of the people responding to this thread was obliged to purchase a new tow vehicle immediately after purchasing a trailer when it turned out his current truck would not do what the "advertised ratings" said it would. In the end, I was glad that I opted for "robust" in our tow vehicle selection.

Just for fun, you might want to read the Dave Berry column on pickup truck ads and take a break from all this nonsense.

Truck ads: Like a crock

[Tony D]

About the Scamp 16. As I’m sure you know, It’s axel is rated to 3,500 lbs. Real world trailer weight tends to be higher than we think it’ll be when are making the purchase.

I have an 6 cylinder Outback with the 5 speed automatic. I pull a Scamp 13. It’s great except for the hitch weight limit. I’ve been told that AWD is not as good for towing as a 4wd or even a 2wd. I’m happy with mine, but I guess the mechanical complexity of keeping all the wheels turning at the right speed can be a problem over time if you tow a lot. I’m also not a CVT fan. My hybrid has one and I’m sure it helps with gas mileage, but it makes a lot of noise.

My observation is the vehicles made for towing have certain features. Those features may not help sell cars made primarily for moving a family around. I guess you need to answer where you want to make the compromises? I’d bet the Accent would be fine. However, it’s not the best tug on your list. I want a Ranger or maybe a Bronco in a few years. The Tacoma or 4Runner are attractive as well. The Explorer should meet your requirements.

[Bill castle]

I tow with a 2004 GMC Yukon XL, 5.3 v8 engine. Have put on over 100 k on it towing , and now have 210 k with no problems. Have gone to Alaska. And all 48 lower states. I would recommend to go big.

[Civilguy]

LINK: Ford’s F-Series tops US charts as best-selling vehicle for 42nd straight year
Posted Jan 04, 2019

Predicted reliability was another weak area for the F-Series pickup with a rating of one out of five. The overall reliability verdict rated the lowest on the five-point scale. Data from 2019 shows that overall reliability was also rated as the lowest, with problematic infotainment graphics and transmission slippage. As a result, Consumer Reports can no longer recommend the F-150.

Consumer Reports also compared other new models on a rating scale of 0 to 100 percent by averaging a model’s overall reliability for the newest three years. At the top of this comparison chart is the 2020 Toyota Tundra with a rating of 75 percent. By comparison, the F-150 had a rating of 20 percent. The Chevy Silverado 1500 and the GMC Sierra had the same rating as the F-150, and the Ram 1500 trailed with a rating of 18 percent.

LINK: Was Consumer Reports Wrong About the 2020 Ford F-150?

Isn't science fun?

[thrifty bill]

Can't open that link. IMHO, the Japanese and now Korean manufacturers maintain a significant quality edge, even when the vehicles are made in the USA. The top rated Tundra (above ranking) is made in San Antonio, TX. and is almost 75% US/Canada content.

Some will recite the JD Powers ranking, but those are TRASH (opinion) as they are initial quality. If you plan to just keep a car for a couple of months, then initial quality is OK. If you plan to keep it ten years, then initial quality is a lousy guide. And hopefully, ALL cars sold have excellent initial quality.

[steve dunham]

We towed our 1999 16 ft Scamp std with a 1/2 ton Ram truck with a V6
The kindest thing I can say is , it got us from Point A to Point B —
Never Again

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

Can't open that link.

Hmm. My bad.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/was-con...020-ford-f-150

I find it interesting when something clearly fails on one criteria, such as reliability, but we love it anyway. It's like a toxic relationship.

And in fairness, it looks like the Ford's reliability per CR has fallen from having been consistently around or above-average through the 2014 model year.

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

IMHO, the Japanese and now Korean manufacturers maintain a significant quality edge, even when the vehicles are made in the USA.

Now there's some grist for the mill! I was reading an article about Delphi's turnaround recently and was fascinated. They were getting their suppliers to achieve a level of three defects per million, apparently by a combination of educating them in Six Sigma principles and further refusing to accept high defect rates.

Not quite carrot and stick; maybe apple and stick for a schoolhouse metaphor - ?

[Raz]

Interesting article on CR and the F150. This is where people come out of the woodwork to bash CR but I've always found their reviews useful. A few years ago I read an article in the Wall Street Journal about Ford's reliability ratings dropping. In it they said Ford had adopted a corporate philosophy of being on the cutting edge of technology. This has resulted in a high number of recalls. Not ready for prime time I guess. I read somewhere the new Ranger has had at least 5 recalls since introduced. Back in the early 80's I beta tested a Chevy pickup. I replaced the Chevy with an '85 F150. Not much better, but then it was the 80's.

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

Now there's some grist for the mill! I was reading an article about Delphi's turnaround recently and was fascinated. They were getting their suppliers to achieve a level of three defects per million, apparently by a combination of educating them in Six Sigma principles and further refusing to accept high defect rates.

Not quite carrot and stick; maybe apple and stick for a schoolhouse metaphor - ?

Having gone through many, many customer quality audits and quality mandates, I can say with certainty none of the auditors plants could pass the same scrutiny. The audit process was full of hypocrites.

ISO registration was the biggest joke. If your instructions called for you to do things wrong, upon inspection as long as followed the procedure you were golden!

[Glenn Baglo]

Stuck in a rut, Floyd? Ford and Scamp.

[floyd]

Magic words "per CR". Their "reliability record" has never been good on any product. It has been a rag for many decades and not just on vehicles.


Look at the Ford Explorer. No Pacific rim manufacturer can match it

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

Can't open that link. IMHO, the Japanese and now Korean manufacturers maintain a significant quality edge, even when the vehicles are made in the USA. The top rated Tundra (above ranking) is made in San Antonio, TX. and is almost 75% US/Canada content.

Some will recite the JD Powers ranking, but those are TRASH (opinion) as they are initial quality. If you plan to just keep a car for a couple of months, then initial quality is OK. If you plan to keep it ten years, then initial quality is a lousy guide. And hopefully, ALL cars sold have excellent initial quality.

Why would I purchase a Tundra when I don’t like the exterior or interior styling, lack of modern technology or the poor gas mileage .
If I don’t enjoy driving it when it’s brand new why would I enjoy driving it 10 years later ?.
I have about as much faith in CR as I do in most politicians - zero to none
My brother just bought a new Santa Fe and if that’s quality then I ain’t buying it .

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Why would I purchase a Tundra when I don’t like the exterior or interior styling, lack of modern technology or the poor gas mileage .

In the case of Toyota, I think that is part of their strategy. They are slow to embrace new technology, and slow to roll out new models. Instead, they make the same car year after year, focusing more on quality than innovation.

I definitely do not care for the Tundra's styling, and its lack of modern technology. So far, so good on my F150 (130,000 miles). As far as styling goes, I liked the older Tundra design much better than the newer one.

And to Consumer Reports ratings, its not really consumer reports, the long term quality comes from individual owners (subscribers to CR).

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by floyd

Look at the Ford Explorer. No Pacific rim manufacturer can match it

Nissan comes close, assuming it's a race to the bottom...



I just love these mud-slinging tow vehicle threads!

At least we're arguing... err... discussing vehicles that are all perfectly capable of pulling a 16' Scamp. Lots of personal preferences and biases when it comes to vehicles. I have mine, and you are certainly welcome to yours.

But I am curious about one thing... if there are five adults in the vehicle, where are they all going to sleep in a Scamp 16?

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by floyd

Magic words "per CR". Their "reliability record" has never been good on any product. It has been a rag for many decades and not just on vehicles.


Look at the Ford Explorer. No Pacific rim manufacturer can match it

For once we agree, on both CR and the Ford Explorer

[Glenn Baglo]

Exploder?
Owned one. It was OK except the air crapped out and it blew a head gasket.

[Lynn Eberhardt]

Just from reading the thread, I would guess the OP was looking for one new vehicle that would make a good TV and be suitable for 5 adults and/or dogs as needed. That size group probably wouldn't be happy with a Scamp 16' for very far or very long.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eberhardt

Just from reading the thread, I would guess the OP was looking for one new vehicle that would make a good TV and be suitable for 5 adults and/or dogs as needed. That size group probably wouldn't be happy with a Scamp 16' for very far or very long.

That would make sense. We have had up to 6 adults and 2 teens in our Pilot on several occasions. Not for all-day driving, of course, and definitely not while towing.

[honda03842]

We've towed heavily modified 1991 Scamp 16 for about 10 years. Initially we towed with a 2004 Honda CRV with a manual transmission. It had 250,000 miles towing all over North America. We never had a single problem with that vehicle outside of one thermostat. We tried to get another one but they no longer made a manual transmission so we traded it on a 2014 Honda Odyssey automatic with a V6. The only option we added were the Honda Tow Bar and a transmission cooler. We did buy the base model. The Odyssey is a cave. It comfortaby handles 6 people. It has been just as reliable as the CRV, now at 120,000 miles, the only failure was a door handle. The Odyssey has gobs of power and gets very good mileage towing and great highway mileage in general driving.

Our Scamp 16 has many modifications including solar panels, big AC Inverter, Added extra drawers. full width rear over head cabinets, a huge front over the couch cabinet, a small slide out pantry, and under fridge cabinet, a rear bumper box and two under the bumper box 4 foot sewer hose containers, an interior air conditioner, a shelved closet. Under the floor at the rear of the trailer we have two slideout drawers. Our driver's side dinette has two slide out drawers. Our couch has two slide out bins and a slide out drawer.

Our Scamp fully loaded for the road has a tongue weight of about 210 lbs and weighs about 2200 lbs. We're on the road more than 7 months a year.

We thought we'd never use the six seats but have used them frequently. When we travel with another couple invariably we travel about in the Odyssey. Ginny figures when we get too old tow we'll be able to camp in the Scamp, not likely but a kindly thought.

The only thing we do to the Odyssey is we do use an anti sway bar. Not that we've ever had sway with our Scamp but we were novices when we started and people suggested we'd we be happy to have one in an emergency and they were right (twice).

One nice part of the Odyssey there is plenty of room to carry all kinds of items. Depending on where we are going we will carry a Honda 1000 generator in the Odyessy among other storage bins.

The Odyssey easily handles the load, it's like there's nothing behind us.

Now reliability is a big issue for us because sometimes the nearest Honda dealer is literally a long way off, fortunately we've never needed one. Definitely vehicles are more reliable these days, but our Hondas have been great.

By the way we are now 78 and we began by looking at the Honda Pilot. Ginny did not like the climb up.

One concern we had with the Odyssey and Pilot is the program that switches the number of cylinders being used from 3 to 6. I was concerned about the reliability of the system when I bought it but have never had a problem and the only we I can tell it;s working is the Econ light or the instantaneous mileage.

Wish you well, we absolutely loved traveling in our Scamp. If Canada was open now we'd be in Newfoundland in our Scamp right now.

Safe Travels