Towing Issues with a Mazda CX-5,

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

It sounds like, "you can pay me now, or you can pay me later".
I'd get a vehicle with more tow capacity.

So when does that payment come due?

Nearly ten years and tens of thousands of miles towing my Scamp13D with a 2.3L Escape caused no harm. I have since passed it down to my son for his daily driver. It now has 140,000 miles on it and runs great after 13 years.

Much later for that "payment" and we just won't pay it!

[AlohaVicki]

Thanks everyone for this info! I am wanting to tow a 13 ft. Scamp with a CX-9 that has a tow rating of 3500 pounds. Even though the Scamp fully loaded will probably be around 2200-2500 pounds, I was wondering if it was up to the task and didn't decrease mpg more than would be expected or tax the engine.
I am buying a new tow vehicle and prefer the CX-9 to the Highlander, but would buy the Toyota Highlander if necessary.
I'm assuming the CX-9 would also be equipped from factory with the cooling that the CX-5 has.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by AlohaVicki

Thanks everyone for this info! I am wanting to tow a 13 ft. Scamp with a CX-9 that has a tow rating of 3500 pounds. Even though the Scamp fully loaded will probably be around 2200-2500 pounds, I was wondering if it was up to the task and didn't decrease mpg more than would be expected or tax the engine.
I am buying a new tow vehicle and prefer the CX-9 to the Highlander, but would buy the Toyota Highlander if necessary.
I'm assuming the CX-9 would also be equipped from factory with the cooling that the CX-5 has.

Does the scamp have brakes and use a 7-blade RV connector?

If the scamp does have brakes, then does this CX-9 come with a 2" hitch reciever and a 7-blade RV plug? if the Scamp does /not/ have brakes, then a 4 pin trailer connector is probably fine.

as far as transmission cooling goes, I wouldn't make any assumptions, instead ask the dealer to confirm... in fact, I would talk with the dealer PARTS department about transmission coolers on those cars, they would likely know more than the sales guys.

[AlohaVicki]

All good advice, John in SC. I actually have not bought either the Scamp or the CX-9. We are in Hawaii and moving back to the mainland in 4 or 5 months. We are not going to ship vehicles back so are starting from scratch. I'm on the list for a Scamp and am ordering the trailer brakes and will make sure I get the 7 pin connection.
Thanks for the tip about calling the Parts/Service about these issues. I've called and sales staff sometimes don't have the answers. Yes, I need to be sure about the cooler on the 9 and get the 7 connection.
Thank you!

[Jon in AZ]

All Scamps now have brakes and a 7-pin round connector.

The CX-9 will make a perfectly good tow vehicle for the Scamp. Before you talk to a dealer, I’d recommend downloading a PDF version of the owner’s manual for whatever model year you’re looking to buy. Read the towing section. It may answer your questions, and it’s always a good place to start regardless.

Sadly, my experience is dealers don’t always have up-to-date and accurate towing information for passenger vehicles (where towing in not the primary mission). For example, the Honda dealer could not tell me why the 2WD tow rating on Pilots dropped from 3500# in 2011 to 2000# in 2012. I asked both the sales and service manager. I ended up buying a lightly used 2011.

You may find Mazda only offers 4-pin trailer wiring. If so you can go aftermarket for the 7-pin set-up. It might also be worth comparing the Mazda hitch with aftermarket alternatives.

[John in Santa Cruz]

I found this online, for a 2020 CX-9
https://www.mazdausa.com/static/manu.../04100200.html

the scary one is the max frontal area of 32 sq feet. given a Scamp or Casita is about 6' wide, that's only 5.3 x 6 feet, this puts you in teardrop or popup tent trailer territory.

indeed, max 3500 lb trailer. max GCWR (combined car+trailer) of 8337 lbs for the AWD version. max GVWR (including tongue weight) of 5822 lbs (for the AWD).

There is only one way to find your vehicles ACTUAL curb weight and thats to weigh it as is, ALL published numbers will be guesses, as every option in the car is added to that. (GVWR - curb weight - tongue weight) is how much stuff you can put IN hte car including passengers/driver.

btw, those cars are available with 18" or 20" wheels, and the fancier models all default to 20". BEG the dealer to swap a set of 18's off a base model, and keep the 20's from your nice Grand Touring or whatever. The 18's give a much more comfortable ride on rough roads, and will better handle the work of towing. Its 255/60R18 vs 255/50R20 ... /50 tires have very little sidewall. The 20's are speed rated "V" while the 18's are only "H", but I doubt you'll ever take a CX-9 over 130 MPH in the USA.

The new Mazda CX's are very nice cars, we ALMOST bought a 2020 CX-5 for my wife's daily driver, but the seats were too narrow for her (and the CX-9 was just too large for the two of us as a daily driver).

[John in Santa Cruz]

oh, in the 2020 Mazda CX-9 Brochure, the factory only offers a Class II hitch receiver, that's 1.25", not the 2" receiver a Scamp needs. So you will need to go aftermarket for a hitch.

Draw-Tite[1] and Curt[2] both make a Class III 2" reciever, they are bolt-on, no drilling required. maybe a trimming of the plastic skirt under the bumper, thats pretty common, or just leave that skirt off, its purely cosmetic..

I don't see a turnkey 7-blade wiring kit for the Mazda on etrailer.com, so you'll likely need a 4-blade adapter[3], then add a 4-to-7 kit[4], with custom charging and brake wiring. This last part, I would want to find a Mazda specialist who knows electrics to wire it into the vehicle properly, most trailer service places will just hack it up.

[1] https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hit...leID=202044983
[2] https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hit...leID=202045829
[3] https://www.etrailer.com/Custom-Fit-...leID=202047328
[4] https://www.etrailer.com/Wiring/Hopkins/37185.html

[Osos1]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I’ve read this whole thread twice and I am still in disbelief.

Do you ever wake up on the right side of your bed? You complained forever about Escape trailers and then after missing the Great Exchange Rate of 2015-2016 you bought used and seemingly in a self-fulfilling prophecy have had a lot of problems. That is if we are to believe you. Anyone who reads enough of your posts here and on Escape Forum knows to take you with a huge grain of salt, otherwise a big headache may ensue.

We saw a bunch of Subaru Outbacks towing Scamp 13's last fall in WY & CO. If they can do it a CX-5 can!

[ShelbyM]

Originally Posted by AlohaVicki

I actually have not bought either the Scamp or the CX-9.

I'd suggest starting with a vehicle that is correct for your use from the start. Get something that has the wiring, hitch and capability you need. You are in a good position of not having to make do with an existing vehicle.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

the scary one is the max frontal area of 32 sq feet. given a Scamp or Casita is about 6' wide, that's only 5.3 x 6 feet, this puts you in teardrop or popup tent trailer territory.

That frontal area limit is an unfortunate consequence of manufacturers following the J2807 tow testing standards, in which lightweight trailers are assumed to be smaller. IIRC, the 3500# weight class specifies a minimum frontal area of 30 sf for testing purposes.

Common sense is needed. Extra frontal requires extra force to move, not unlike pulling a heavier trailer. The Scamp is around 40 sf, or about 25% over the 32 sf spec. On the credit side, the rounded shape reduces the aerodynamic drag somewhat (I’d estimate on the order of 20% or so based on some charts I’ve seen analyzing different generic shapes. I’ve never seen any good wind tunnel studies of various RV shapes.)

Excess frontal area is a good reason to leave plenty of extra margin in the trailer weight rating. In this case we are talking about towing at around 60% of the rating (2100/3500#). IMO that’s ample margin to allow for the excess frontal area. It’s also a reason to keep towing speeds reasonable, since unlike weight, aerodynamic resistance increases as the square of speed. I consider 65 mph reasonable in flat, windless conditions, slower for grades and headwinds.

J2807 did not create the problem, since it merely codified what was already common practice. Tow testing is done with box cargo trailers, not recreational trailers. A lot of the testing is done in AZ, and I regularly see camouflaged test vehicles pulling cargo trailers, never a travel trailer. It is an issue for all sizes of non-folding travel trailers, since they are all large relative to their weight. Lots of empty space inside.

I have personally experienced the effects of frontal area. Our first tow vehicle was only rated for 2000#. Our Scamp weighs in around 1750#, but climbing a long grade against a 35mph headwind overwhelmed the transmission cooling system and it overheated. Sensors saved the day, but the experience led us to upgrade our tug to a 3500# rated vehicle. All is now well, and I’d expect the CX-9 to do equally well with a 13’ Scamp.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

I'd suggest starting with a vehicle that is correct for your use from the start. Get something that has the wiring, hitch and capability you need. You are in a good position of not having to make do with an existing vehicle.

Adding a hitch and trailer wiring is a routine aftermarket modification that has been successfully accomplished for decades in hundreds of thousands of tow-rated vehicles. How do you think Mazda does the testing?

As to capability, are you suggesting a 3500# rated, 7-passenger vehicle is incapable of pulling a 2000# Scamp? If not, just what is?

[ShelbyM]

No problem. Just suggesting that since she is starting with a clean slate, why not get something that is right from the get go, without work-arounds.

[k0wtz]

I tug our 13f scamp no b/r with a 2015 ford edge I never go above 60 I always tug in snd never in drive unless you want to trash you car!

I am a believe I am on vacation for one and leave the driving fast without a missle behind me!

I am very careful about transmission fluid and since I cant see it I do a transmission fluid change every 20k! I consider it money well spent!

good luck

bob

Originally Posted by Palmerboy

My 2019 Mazda CX-5, with a towing capacity of 2000 lbs, is my proposed towing vehicle for my ordered 13 ft Scamp, layout 1. No shower or toilet.

Will the speed be limited to 55 to 65 and marginal on hills...? Always in 5 th gear?

It’s a 4 cylinder with 187 hp

[k0wtz]

I believe that car is capable just not in high speed mode!

use common sense

bob

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

I'd suggest starting with a vehicle that is correct for your use from the start. Get something that has the wiring, hitch and capability you need. You are in a good position of not having to make do with an existing vehicle.

[k0wtz]

john I agree with you but use common sense!

bob

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Adding a hitch and trailer wiring is a routine aftermarket modification that has been successfully accomplished for decades in hundreds of thousands of tow-rated vehicles. How do you think they do the testing?

As to capability, are you suggesting a 3500# rated vehicle is incapable of pulling a 2000# Scamp? If not, just what is?

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

No problem. Just suggesting that since she is starting with a clean slate, why not get something that is right from the get go, without work-arounds.

When it comes to mid-sized, 3-row crossovers, full trailer wiring is unfortunately the exception, not the rule. Insisting on it limits your choices significantly.

My Pilot does have it, and it was certainly one factor in my decision, but not the only or even the top criterion. Reliability is my top requirement always, with seat comfort a close second, followed by cost and towing set-up.

The CX-9 and Mazdas in general are often favored by folks who value sporty handling.

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

I'd suggest starting with a vehicle that is correct for your use from the start. Get something that has the wiring, hitch and capability you need. You are in a good position of not having to make do with an existing vehicle.

Sadly, none of the mid sized SUVs, even those with a 5,000 pound tow rating, come with brake controllers. In addition, many of them do not come with 7 pin wiring.

I am certainly in the camp, choose the trailer first, then get a properly sized tow vehicle. Your current vehicle may be enough, it may not. Vehicles bought for other considerations (great fuel economy, styling, brand loyalty, or whatever) with no consideration of tow capacity, may make lousy tow vehicles. My 2010 Honda Element is an example.

[ShelbyM]

Yeah, I was thinking primarily of having a proper 2" receiver and 7 pin connector. I know those come on the 4Runner, maybe there are others.

[k0wtz]

well our ford edge qualifies for the sporty end! it didn't come with a trailer hitch but one was available to be installed! A lot of work including all the wiring but I did it!

Actually the Edge with the 2.4 has plenty of power I am not sure what it does have but it takes care of the 13f Scamp!

However I am not out to prove what it can do or what it will do! In that regard we have been up some nice inclines and went down some as well and no brakes on the trailer!

we use sport mode to control all braking it stays in 5 at all times using the transmission and a tad of the cars brakes at times never a problem either and we would see semi-is stopped because of hot brakes! An important note!

We do not try to set any speed records going anywhere if we are limited on time we just stay home! The whole set-up is safe at 55 to 60 no more!

Is the Edge perfect with I think a 1200lb towing limit no but we use common sense while towing!

Missouri

bob

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

Yeah, I was thinking primarily of having a proper 2" receiver and 7 pin connector. I know those come on the 4Runner, maybe there are others.

[alan H]

Have the dealer run the vin#
That will tell you exactly what is on the car
Easy peasy