Brakes for a uhaul CT13

[keekers]

Hi,
Does anyone know if there is a already a place for adding brakes on the uhaul's? I wouldn't know where to look or what I was looking for anyway so I will ask all you experienced folks.
Thanks,
Patti

[Roger Kimble]

UHaul CT13 Brakes

Try here, we are working on just that, Tom is waiting on a reply from Frank at U-Haul

[Thomas G.]

Patti, I know that yours is an older post, but the crux of it is that UHaul used unique (automotive) bearing hubs for their wheels, which makes it complicated to add brakes.

The simple answer is to take your UHaul camper to a place that builds and repairs trailers, have them measure your axle and order one to be built up at a place like Dexter Axle http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6149609/f/produ...flex_11-06.pdf

Parts including the axle with brakes and new wheels will run about $500, plus labor to install it.

I am attempting to figure out a cheap way to do it, but honestly, so far I'm stumped.

Does anyone have access to the archives at the Ray Horner UHaul site to see what others have done?

[mary and bob]

Tom, did you look into the disc brake setups . Or maybe rear brakes from a front wheel drive car that may have similar hubs. As with many modifications like this, it's nice to have various parts on hand to try. "let me just hold this up here and see if it will work" is sometimes the best way.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by mary and bob

Tom, did you look into the disc brake setups . Or maybe rear brakes from a front wheel drive car that may have similar hubs. As with many modifications like this, it's nice to have various parts on hand to try. "let me just hold this up here and see if it will work" is sometimes the best way.

No, I have not looked at disc brakes, primarily because space is so tight inside the 13" wheel. Since the hubs are off a 1993 to 2002, or so, Camaro, I thought that I might be able to get the rear 9.5" drum assemblies from a junk yard Camaro and add a surge brake to the trailer tongue. It would be great to have free rein in a junk yard for a couple of hours to spot the common parts. It is frustrating to try and guess from internet derived dimensions.

[CindyL]

I do. I am looking at these posts. I remember a discussion by someone who used car tires. So far, here is what I found, "My CT13 has 14 inch wheels on it. At one time there were photos of the rebuild I did on this trailer here on the site. I guess over time they disappear as new stuff gets added. To put these wheels on the steel spacer behind the U Haul wheels have to be removed for clearance. The wheels I have look like something off a Camaro or Firebird.."

Somewhere, I have those pix, because he mailed them to me, and I posted them. Where???

CindyL

[CindyL]

Another relevant post? "
Using this forum I found that the hubs of a 1998 Chevy Lumina should work (as well as those of a 1986 Cadillac Seville and Pontiac 6000). Looked up the hubs on NAPA's website and found that all three cars use the exactly same part number. So I ordered a pair and matched them up to my originals.

The originals have a 4.75 bolt pattern and the "Lumina" hubs have a 4.5 bolt pattern. Otherwise they are the same hub assembly and they bolted on without any modification. But now I was going to need new wheels. And I was interested in staying close to the original style.

A quick side bar here. I wasn't going to stay near original at first. I bought a set of wheels with tires already mounted. They were standard trailer wheels (the white spoke type). These wheels have a zero offset and the tires looked dangerously close to rubbing the wheel well lip. They probably would have been ok but I'm not the type to take a bunch of chances. The look of the wheels made me realize that I really wanted to stay closer to original. So I went in search of OEM type wheels with an offset (in this case an inset was needed) that would be sufficiant. I never found wheels with a larger inset than what I finally bought.

While I was at it, I bought new bolts/nuts/washers to mount the new hubs. I bought Grade 8 hardware so it should be overkill for the application. The bolts are 7/16 X 1.75 inch with a #14 thread. I bought bolts, flat washers, lock washers, and nuts all in Grade 8.

The original wheels have about a 1.5 inch inset and also use a 0.25 inch spacer. I found a set of similar wheels with a 0.5 inch inset and a 4.50 bolt pattern. So the bolt pattern was right and the inset was enough to make me comfortable that my tires wouldn't run the wheel well lip. But the center bore was only 2.62 inches and I needed closer to a 2.75 inches. After continued searching I couldn't find another set of wheels that had the right center bore diameter.

I called a local machine shop and they told me to bring the wheels down and they would bore it out to the size I need.

The project list:
Tires (175/80R13)
Wheels (http://www.lowcosttrailersupplies.com/M ... CTGY/OEMSW)
Baby Moon Hubcaps = (http://www.lowcosttrailersupplies.com/M ... ode=A-1308)
Hubs = Online prices vary. I paid $67 each. (NAPA AUTO PARTS ... Rear+Wheel)
Hub Hardware = (http://www.boltdepot)
Machine Shop Services = $30"


Using this forum I found that the hubs of a 1998 Chevy Lumina should work (as well as those of a 1986 Cadillac Seville and Pontiac 6000). Looked up the hubs on NAPA's website and found that all three cars use the exactly same part number. So I ordered a pair and matched them up to my originals.

The originals have a 4.75 bolt pattern and the "Lumina" hubs have a 4.5 bolt pattern. Otherwise they are the same hub assembly and they bolted on without any modification. But now I was going to need new wheels. And I was interested in staying close to the original style.

A quick side bar here. I wasn't going to stay near original at first. I bought a set of wheels with tires already mounted. They were standard trailer wheels (the white spoke type). These wheels have a zero offset and the tires looked dangerously close to rubbing the wheel well lip. They probably would have been ok but I'm not the type to take a bunch of chances. The look of the wheels made me realize that I really wanted to stay closer to original. So I went in search of OEM type wheels with an offset (in this case an inset was needed) that would be sufficiant. I never found wheels with a larger inset than what I finally bought.

While I was at it, I bought new bolts/nuts/washers to mount the new hubs. I bought Grade 8 hardware so it should be overkill for the application. The bolts are 7/16 X 1.75 inch with a #14 thread. I bought bolts, flat washers, lock washers, and nuts all in Grade 8.

The original wheels have about a 1.5 inch inset and also use a 0.25 inch spacer. I found a set of similar wheels with a 0.5 inch inset and a 4.50 bolt pattern. So the bolt pattern was right and the inset was enough to make me comfortable that my tires wouldn't run the wheel well lip. But the center bore was only 2.62 inches and I needed closer to a 2.75 inches. After continued searching I couldn't find another set of wheels that had the right center bore diameter.

I called a local machine shop and they told me to bring the wheels down and they would bore it out to the size I need.

The project list:
Tires (175/80R13)
Wheels (http://www.lowcosttrailersupplies.com/M ... CTGY/OEMSW)
Baby Moon Hubcaps = (http://www.lowcosttrailersupplies.com/M ... ode=A-1308)
Hubs = Online prices vary. I paid $67 each. (NAPA AUTO PARTS ... Rear+Wheel)
Hub Hardware = (http://www.boltdepot)
Machine Shop Services = $30



CindyL

[Roger Kimble]

Very nice,nice job, the hydraulic brakes would be the only kind you culd put on here though

[mary and bob]

Etrailer has an electric operated hydraulic system, that is you can use hydraulic brakes that are not the surge type. I've seen a similar setup on medium duty trucks where the backup system for when the engine is not running is an electric/hydraulic setup. The Etrailer system is quite expensive, probably better to replace the axle than go that route.

[Bruce Thomas]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

No, I have not looked at disc brakes, primarily because space is so tight inside the 13" wheel. Since the hubs are off a 1993 to 2002, or so, Camaro, I thought that I might be able to get the rear 9.5" drum assemblies from a junk yard Camaro and add a surge brake to the trailer tongue. It would be great to have free rein in a junk yard for a couple of hours to spot the common parts. It is frustrating to try and guess from internet derived dimensions.

just a heads up... they're not like camaro at all...a camaro is a rear wheel drive car. They're like whats on a midsize celebrity , pontiac 6000 etc..front wheel drive car and they are like the rear hubs on those cars not the fronts.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Bruce Thomas

just a heads up... they're not like camaro at all...a camaro is a rear wheel drive car. They're like whats on a midsize celebrity , pontiac 6000 etc..front wheel drive car and they are like the rear hubs on those cars not the fronts.

Bruce, thanks for the input. I think we might both be right, but your point is an important one. The hub I referred to used on the front wheels of the 90's era Camaro. If I'm looking for brakes, finding brakes off the rear of a FWD car would be a surer thing.

Below is a photo of the Camaro hubs.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by CindyL

Another relevant post? "
Using this forum I found that the hubs of a 1998 Chevy Lumina should work (as well as those of a 1986 Cadillac Seville and Pontiac 6000). Looked up the hubs on NAPA's website and found that all three cars use the exactly same part number. So I ordered a pair and matched them up to my originals.............snip...........CindyL

Cindy, thanks so much for dragging this out of the historic files. I've tried to join the UHaul site, but it seems the lights are out.

To summarize the post you quoted in a few bullet points.

• Changing the UHaul hubs to rear hubs form a 1998 Lumina converts the lug bolt circle from 4.75" to 4.5"
• The UHaul wheel has a very large offset and the OP was unable to find replacement wheels with the same offset, but settled for an offset he felt would work, 0.5"
• The Lumina hubs have a 2.78 hub diameter, but the wheels the OP found had a smaller diameter of 2.62, so he had to have them machined larger to fit.

As a general comment, it is good to post part numbers, etc as opposed to a link, as the links change over time and information is lost.

Cindy, if you find any more good, historical data on brake conversions at the other site, I'd greatly appreciate you posting it or sending it to me in a PM. On some sites you can print an entire thread. I print to a PDF writer like Cute writer, which allows me to capture it in a PDF format that can be emailed, posted, etc.

Tom

[Donna D.]

I just logged in to the U-Haul forum, last posting was on Dec. 17.

[CindyL]

Tom,

Searching the historical postings for brakes only yields discussion postings by Kevin and me on our surge brakes and a discussion on the necessity of having brakes on a CT.

You might email Jim (webmaster) and/or Forest Field who is kind of the welcomer/resident specialist if you want access to uhaulcamper.com.

CindyL

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by CindyL

Tom,

Searching the historical postings for brakes only yields discussion postings by Kevin and me on our surge brakes and a discussion on the necessity of having brakes on a CT.

You might email Jim (webmaster) and/or Forest Field who is kind of the welcomer/resident specialist if you want access to uhaulcamper.com.

CindyL

Thanks, Cindy. On a separate note, what is the issue with your brakes? When I was a pup I worked at a trailer rental and used to service the surge brakes, so I know enough to be dangerous.

[CindyL]

I told Kevin to post here. I am clueless about this topic.

Kevin said he has two problems with the brakes, so I asked him if one was having a wife who wants electric brakes. He says that means that he now has 3 problems.

Cindy

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by CindyL

I told Kevin to post here. I am clueless about this topic.

Kevin said he has two problems with the brakes, so I asked him if one was having a wife who wants electric brakes. He says that means that he now has 3 problems.

Cindy

Nothing wrong with surge brakes, but in my experience, they don't like just sitting around. They seem to get air in the system if not used. As a mechanic, I rigged up a long lever to attach to the master cylinder on the coupler so I could stroke the cylinder and bleed them. There are also bleeders that use a small air pressure in the reservoir, available at auto parts store.

[CindyL]

So they will need to be bled after each episode of sitting around, i.e. winter?


I know bleeding is one of Kevin's problems.

CindyL

[mary and bob]

There are also hand operated vacuum type bleeders. I have both the pressure type and vacuum type. The major problem with brakes that set around unused for periods of time is corrosion and leakage. Parts that have to move will rust and stick, wheel cylinders corrode and leak. And we could start a whole other discussion on what type of brake fluid to use, DOT 3 or silicone type. This is common problems for us vintage car & truck owners.

[Kevin A]

Glad to hear that there might be someone with surge brake experience around! My two problems deal with: 1) getting brake fluid to come out of the driver's side brake system, and 2) getting the surge controller to move easily enough to bleed the brakes.

After I installed the new brake setup on the wheels, I was able to bleed the brake cylinder on the passenger side. However, I couldn't get anything out of the driver's side of the system. I'm not sure if the line is clogged with rust (it sat unused for many years), but it doesn't flow out like the other side.

The surge controller moved OK with a lever at that time, but when I couldn't get any fluid out of the driver's side, I put the job aside for a while and didn't get back to it for a few weeks. Now I can't seem to get the moveable hitch end to compress with the lever. It does move in and out a bit when hooked to the TV, but I don't have enough control over using the TV as the mechanism for moving the surge controller. Could the surge piston have become corroded so it doesn't move well? I know it shouldn't move too easily or it would be braking all the time with every start and stop.

When I added new brake fluid, I also couldn't seem to get the fluid down into the lower chamber of the reservoir. The directions say that it should bubble up slightly as the fluid goes into the lower area. Nothing seems to happen there, either.

Since the trailer is outside and the weather is supposed to turn colder this week, I probably won't get back to this until the spring. But it would be nice knowing what to try!