Getting a title in WA state for a tiny 1969 Boler...?

[tarvin]

Hi! My husband and I live in Tacoma, WA and just bought a CUTE 1969 Boler trailer from a guy in Portland through Craigslist. He had bought it through Craigslist from somebody else, maybe in California? But never transferred the title. He handed us the California title, and it says the registered owner lives in Cairo, WV! It was issued in 2015. We were so excited to score this sweet deal that we just figured we would sort it out later. So, now what? If I try to go into the Dept. of licensing, will they think I'm a trailer thief? I saw something about a permanent "intermittent use" license plate, but we probably have to get a valid title first, right? What should we do?

Thanks!

[dfandrews]

The California title (the pink slip), has a place for the former owner listed on the cert. to sign off. There is a place for the proposed new owner's info to be written (usually expected to be filled out by the former owner).
If you don't have that signature, ???

Idea: I once traded a boat for an car, with a similar title nightmare. I went to Auto Club (AAA) (In CA, AAA is an authorized agent) and their region manager happened to be there, and happened to be an expert in CA bureaucratic forms. 3 hours and a stack of paper later, we did it.

[tarvin]

Thanks! There are no signatures. Would it be easier to just *lose* this title?

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by tarvin

Thanks! There are no signatures. Would it be easier to just *lose* this title?

My uninformed opinion: You are in possession of the CA Title (pink slip). What do they say: "Possession is 9/10 of the law."
Since you have the pink slip in hand, I believe there is a solution.

[Donna D.]

Who's to say you didn't buy it from the California seller or the Cairo, WV seller... if the title wasn't signed over to the Oregon buyer(s)

[Glenn Baglo]

Interesting how incensed people get when a trailer is reported stolen. They post this terrible crime all over the web. And weeks later, somebody posts that they bought a trailer with no title, and people are falling over themselves suggesting ways to circumnavigate the laws and regulations.
Just interesting.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Interesting how incensed people get when a trailer is reported stolen. They post this terrible crime all over the web. And weeks later, somebody posts that they bought a trailer with no title, and people are falling over themselves suggesting ways to circumnavigate the laws and regulations.
Just interesting.

The difference is Tarvin HAS the title. Unless someone steals a trailer and title is inside the trailer (stooopid) I don't see a problem helping out an honest buyer.

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Interesting how incensed people get when a trailer is reported stolen. They post this terrible crime all over the web. And weeks later, somebody posts that they bought a trailer with no title, and people are falling over themselves suggesting ways to circumnavigate the laws and regulations.
Just interesting.

No circumnavigation here:

1. Pink slip in possession is an important factor.
2. Applying for title in an adjacent state, it is entirely reasonable that, if stolen, it's going to show up as such.

3. So the risk is: if you apply for title in WA, and it's stolen, you are a participant in an investigation, and suspected of being in possession of stolen property. But you walked in, and are cooperative and completely honest, and understand that you may be out the purchase price.
4. If you don't apply for title, well - good luck with that over time!

[ReneeN]

Just tell me you got a bill of sale! I am in the middle of licensing my trailer with lost title. Mine didn’t have anything except the original paperwork on the door.It is called “ownership in doubt” in Washington. The bureau will run the vin and determine if it is listed as a stolen vehicle. If not, they will register the purchase, and have you go to the State Patrol to get the vin verified. You will also need to have it weighed, that info goes with the paperwork back to the licensing office. Because the State Patrol inspections were closed for so long due to Covid there is a two month at least wait to get an appointment for the inspection. After the inspection if everything is filled out correctly you get plates and a registration. However, you will have to wait 3 years to have an official title in your name. You are not able to sell or transfer the trailer during this time. You can also do a “bonded” title, which costs a few hundred dollars through a bond company. The amount is based in the price you paid for the trailer. Don’t be afraid to go to the motor vehicle bureau. Yours is not the first case they have handled. But do not try any tricks, or try to lie or make up a story. You did nothing illegal, so don’t worry about getting in trouble. But if you lie about anything, thinking it will make things work out better, you are screwed when they find out. And they will find out.
One other thing, I printed out the ad from Craigslist, took pics of the trailer at his house, pics of him, and put it all in a file. I looked him up online, and know ALOT about the seller. Just in case...

[Dave Fish]

I think Renee has it right. I don't know if it matters, but I would go to the County Auditor licensing as opposed to a contract agent. The folks in our local auditor's office, Island County, are very helpful.

Originally Posted by ReneeN

Just tell me you got a bill of sale! I am in the middle of licensing my trailer with lost title. Mine didn’t have anything except the original paperwork on the door.It is called “ownership in doubt” in Washington. The bureau will run the vin and determine if it is listed as a stolen vehicle. If not, they will register the purchase, and have you go to the State Patrol to get the vin verified. You will also need to have it weighed, that info goes with the paperwork back to the licensing office. Because the State Patrol inspections were closed for so long due to Covid there is a two month at least wait to get an appointment for the inspection. After the inspection if everything is filled out correctly you get plates and a registration. However, you will have to wait 3 years to have an official title in your name. You are not able to sell or transfer the trailer during this time. You can also do a “bonded” title, which costs a few hundred dollars through a bond company. The amount is based in the price you paid for the trailer. Don’t be afraid to go to the motor vehicle bureau. Yours is not the first case they have handled. But do not try any tricks, or try to lie or make up a story. You did nothing illegal, so don’t worry about getting in trouble. But if you lie about anything, thinking it will make things work out better, you are screwed when they find out. And they will find out.
One other thing, I printed out the ad from Craigslist, took pics of the trailer at his house, pics of him, and put it all in a file. I looked him up online, and know ALOT about the seller. Just in case...

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

The difference is Tarvin HAS the title. Unless someone steals a trailer and title is inside the trailer (stooopid) I don't see a problem helping out an honest buyer.

Not saying this buyer isn't honest, but it seems he has a piece of paper, that's all.

[k corbin]

Go to the official Washington state website. They have the who procedure spelled out for you. That is the first website you should have gone to.
Here is the link to that WA state government website that spells it all out for you regarding what to do if you want to register a vehicle but don't have title to it in your name.Yes you have a physical piece of paper title but you don't have a bill of sale from the persons on that title. You have a bill of sale from a different party than is on the title. But do you have the bill of sale he was given by those owners whose name is on the title to prove this chain of events? Did he ever register the vehicle in Oregon? You have a big mess to sort out. Only the various states involved can suggest how to do it legally.

https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.a...te=308-56A-210

Forums are great but not for legal advise because you need to see it and hear it from the people who are in charge of the process.

I am in Washington state. I bought my trailer in Oregon. Part of the deal was the seller had to go to the department of licensing with me, get the bill of sale officially notarized while there, fill out the documents releasing the title to me while there and I then had all the paperwork I needed to prove ownership so I could get it titled in WA. But before I could get it licensed I had to get a written appraisal of value from an RV dealer as it was too old to be in the blue books. That appraisal has to be done within a certain time frame before getting the WA state paperwork completed. I don't remember what that time frame was so I won't state it here. No way did I want to end up with the kind of mess you are now in so that is why I insisted all the changes happen in Oregon at the official licensing agency. That way the seller can't blow smoke about having legal ownership. You have it in writing and they have to show their ID to the person who does the notary stamp and they can't deny that they stated before a witness and in a legal document that they are the legal owner.

[Steve Hammel]

Stop all the angst. Take what you have to a licensing agent and ask them what you need to do. I also live in Washington State and deal with them all the time. Most of them are very helpful. If the one you go to isn't being helpful go to another location. Asking 50 uninformed (in Wa. law) strangers what you need to do is going to cause you to receive 50 differing opinions. Do not lose any of your paperwork. Replacement title stuff as well as altered titles need to have legal owners signatures notarized and tracking down previous owners can be a nightmare. Bills of sale, in Washington surprisingly do not need to be notarized. Good luck.

[vintageracer]

You can buy a vehicle or trailer in California and the California DMV will take your money, register the vehicle/trailer in California even if you are an you are not a resident of California and California will SEND THE CALIFORNIA TITLE in your name, registered to your out of state address and mail that California title to your residence in West Virginia or any other state for that matter!

I have done this many times with vintage vehicles I purchased in California and then registered the vehicle in California even though I live in and the vehicle will be located in Tennessee. California sent the California title to me in at my Tennessee address which allowed to keep the old California Black License plates current on the vehicle and registered to the vehicle. The "Black Plates" are a big deal to some folks in the collector car hobby.

No different in this situation and nothing illegal. That's why there is a California title with a West Virginia owner and address.

I suggest you call the California DMV, give them the title number and make sure that the title you have is still the current California title for this trailer. Easy to do. The Cali DMV will not tell you who the owner is or any other owner information however they will confirm if the California title you have in your hands is the current Cali title for this trailer.

Why do this and why is this important?

Sometimes unscrupulous sellers will hand over to a buyer an "Open Title" which means that nothing is filed out on the back of the title. No seller's signature and no buyer listed. The original legal owner seller "Might" then go to the state DMV and apply for a "Lost Title" before you can register the vehicle/trailer which will render the title they provided to the buyer invalid. In doing so they might claim the buyer stole the trailer and try and collect insurance or file a stolen report to try and git the trailer back. VERY RARE to happen however it is possible.

Many times the buyer will ask for and "Open Title" so they can resell the vehicle/trailer without titling and paying registration and sales tax on the vehicle/trailer in their state of residence. By the way possessing and "Open Title" for a vehicle or trailer in all 50 states is illegal. The states want their money!

Having said all the above people selling vehicles/trailers "Open Title" is done every day in every state by "Curbstoner's" illegally selling vehicles/trailers "Open Title" without becoming a licensed motor vehicle dealer. This is what the person did from whom you purchased the trailer!

Since you did not purchase the trailer from the LEGAL TRAILER OWNER listed on the front of tht title and the seller from whom YOU purchased the trailer illegally sold the trailer to you by SKIPPING TITLE I suggest you PROPERLY fill out the back of the California title with your name and information in the buyer's section of the back of the title. Make sure seller's signature and information on the back of the title is the same name and information as listed as the owner on the front of the title. If no seller's signature is on the back of the title all you can do is sign the seller's signature, go to the Washington DMV, present the title, a bill of sale (If Required) you make up from the owner listed on the front of the title and any other information you have from the ORIGINAL OWNER SELLER who will be the person listed on the front of the title and register the trailer. Since you bought the trailer from an "Curbstoner/Illegal Flipper" you do not want to share any of that information about the "Flipper" with the Washington DMV as they may then pull the title you present, take your contact information about the Flipper and make that Flipper properly register, license, title, pay taxes, registration and any fee's BEFORE they will let you license, title and pay tax on the trailer. Most unlikely to happen HOWEVER it can happen. REMEMBER all the states, county and city governments want their share of the pie when it comes to registration and tax money!

Not wanting to SCARE you however this is what can happen when YOU purchase a vehicle/trailer from a "Curbstoner/Flipper" who is not the legal owner of the item especially if that "Curbstoner/Flipper" is located in another state selling you a vehicle/trailer with an Open Title from a 3rd state. YOU the buyer better be damn sure know YOU how to fill out the Seller's and Buyer's Information Section on the back of that title CORRECTLY with your information BEFORE you go to your local DMV!

[wilyoung]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

You can buy a vehicle or trailer in California and the California DMV will take your money, register the vehicle/trailer in California even if you are an you are not a resident of California and California will SEND THE CALIFORNIA TITLE in your name, registered to your out of state address and mail that California title to your residence in West Virginia or any other state for that matter!

I have done this many times with vintage vehicles I purchased in California and then registered the vehicle in California even though I live in and the vehicle will be located in Tennessee. California sent the California title to me in at my Tennessee address which allowed to keep the old California Black License plates current on the vehicle and registered to the vehicle. The "Black Plates" are a big deal to some folks in the collector car hobby.

No different in this situation and nothing illegal. That's why there is a California title with a West Virginia owner and address.

I suggest you call the California DMV, give them the title number and make sure that the title you have is still the current California title for this trailer. Easy to do. The Cali DMV will not tell you who the owner is or any other owner information however they will confirm if the California title you have in your hands is the current Cali title for this trailer.

Why do this and why is this important?

Sometimes unscrupulous sellers will hand over to a buyer an "Open Title" which means that nothing is filed out on the back of the title. No seller's signature and no buyer listed. The original legal owner seller "Might" then go to the state DMV and apply for a "Lost Title" before you can register the vehicle/trailer which will render the title they provided to the buyer invalid. In doing so they might claim the buyer stole the trailer and try and collect insurance or file a stolen report to try and git the trailer back. VERY RARE to happen however it is possible.

Many times the buyer will ask for and "Open Title" so they can resell the vehicle/trailer without titling and paying registration and sales tax on the vehicle/trailer in their state of residence. By the way possessing and "Open Title" for a vehicle or trailer in all 50 states is illegal. The states want their money!

Having said all the above people selling vehicles/trailers "Open Title" is done every day in every state by "Curbstoner's" illegally selling vehicles/trailers "Open Title" without becoming a licensed motor vehicle dealer. This is what the person did from whom you purchased the trailer!

Since you did not purchase the trailer from the LEGAL TRAILER OWNER listed on the front of tht title and the seller from whom YOU purchased the trailer illegally sold the trailer to you by SKIPPING TITLE I suggest you PROPERLY fill out the back of the California title with your name and information in the buyer's section of the back of the title.




Make sure seller's signature and information on the back of the title is the same name and information as listed as the owner on the front of the title. If no seller's signature is on the back of the title all you can do is sign the seller's signature, (emphasis added) go to the Washington DMV, present the title, a bill of sale (If Required) you make up from the owner listed on the front of the title and any other information you have from the ORIGINAL OWNER SELLER who will be the person listed on the front of the title and register the trailer.




Since you bought the trailer from an "Curbstoner/Illegal Flipper" you do not want to share any of that information about the "Flipper" with the Washington DMV as they may then pull the title you present, take your contact information about the Flipper and make that Flipper properly register, license, title, pay taxes, registration and any fee's BEFORE they will let you license, title and pay tax on the trailer. Most unlikely to happen HOWEVER it can happen. REMEMBER all the states, county and city governments want their share of the pie when it comes to registration and tax money!


Not wanting to SCARE you however this is what can happen when YOU purchase a vehicle/trailer from a "Curbstoner/Flipper" who is not the legal owner of the item especially if that "Curbstoner/Flipper" is located in another state selling you a vehicle/trailer with an Open Title from a 3rd state. YOU the buyer better be damn sure know YOU how to fill out the Seller's and Buyer's Information Section on the back of that title CORRECTLY with your information BEFORE you go to your local DMV!

A lot of what vintageracer said is true. But DO NOT try to get around a "Curbstoner" by forging a seller's signature on the title and "making up" a fake Bill of Sale. That would make you a criminal.


You made a mistake. You bought a vehicle without getting the title properly signed over to you. Don't make another "mistake" by forging a signature.


Unless you know the person you "bought" it from personally you have no idea how he/she acquired it. From the the person listed on the front of the title or from some other "shady" dealer. Who knows? It may be stolen and the "title" you have in hand may be forged.


Take any and all paperwork you have, and any identification you have for the person you bought it from, to your local vehicle registration office. Give them your truthful sad tale of woe and see what they can do. You might have to take a few lumps. At most you may lose the trailer and what you paid for it. But if you get caught trying fudge something you risk loosing a lot more.


Craigslist is known for having a lot of shady people/stuff going on. You may be a victim of that. Don't you become an accomplice.

[computerspook]

If by chance you can find them, I would get with the people whose name is on the Title. If you can get them to sign it over to you then you are golden.

Otherwise it will be a long process.

[Len S]

Agree with wil young. Two wrongs don’t make a right.... be straight up with the state registration people won’t land you in the clinker. By doing it the wrong way can not only give you grief but will give you a record and that will stop you at the border into Canada to enjoy camping trips here. Your state department for registration should be able to track down the original owners.

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by Len S

Agree with wil young. Two wrongs don’t make a right.... be straight up with the state registration people won’t land you in the clinker. By doing it the wrong way can not only give you grief but will give you a record and that will stop you at the border into Canada to enjoy camping trips here. Your state department for registration should be able to track down the original owners.

Doubt that they would do it or care. Their names and address should be on the title. If you can find them that is going to be your best bet. Regardless of how it got to you if they sign the title over to you, you are golden. There are other ways to do this, but they as you have seen get much more complicated. And generally much more expensive

[Peder_y2k]

"You are not able to sell or transfer the trailer during this time."
WRONG.... you can sell and transfer title BUT the new buyer/owner then assumes the risk for the balance of the wait time.

[Yank]

Well, a piece of paper (CA Pink Slip) and trailer in his possession lol.