Trillium I lectrical

[Patrick G.]

New to the board. I’ve seen previous posts on this but wanted to toss this out there. I’m replacing the old Basler cp-20 power center in my sister in laws Trilium 4500.
I’m considering the either the WFCO WF 8725 or the Progressive Dynamics PD4135. Even the WFCO is more than she’ll ever need in the camper but I wanted to be sure the upgrade was expandable.
My question is, has anyone heard pros or cons on either? The WFCO is def a better price but it does have less expandability.
Second question… anyone have any idea where the battery was in 1980 Trillium 4500? Doesn’t seem to have a place on the front ahead of the Propane tank. Another thread suggested it was inside the trailer itself?! That didn’t sound right or safe!
Thanks!
Patrick

[Joe MacDonald]

Trillium typically put their batteries under the front bunk/seat on the road side in all 3 flavours of their trailer.13,45,&5500
personally I would go with the PD 4135, They are reliable, and have excellent customer service .

Joe

[Steve Hague]

Hi Patrick,
Our 1978 Trillium 4500 has the battery mounted under the street side front bunk. It is in a battery case that is vented to the exterior through a one inch round screened vent.
Our original PD-6921 was putting out too high voltage, so I just disconnected the converter coil and only use it as a breaker box for the 110 and 12v circuits. The power needs in our 4500 are meager since we are only running LED lights, a Maxxfan, a 12v outlet, and the control circuitry for our Dometic RM2351 refrigerator. We just run all these 12v circuits directly from the battery and have a small smart charger. This setup has worked well so far, but considering updating to a higher capacity shore-power battery charger.
Good luck and hoping to hear how your project goes.
Steve

[David Tilston]

Since Lithium Iron Phosphate, (LiFePO4) batteries are looking like the next generation of batteries, (but too expensive for me at the moment) I would look for a converter that is compatable with those batteries.

I have heard good things about Progressive Dynamics.

[Patrick G.]

Good info folks! One my challenges is that I am trying to plan this rehab remotely! I am 200 miles from the trailer. I have looked at it up close once and am working off of measurements, videos and photos! Hopefully have what I need there when I get there!
I’ll make a decision soon on the converter. The PD is much more than she’ll need so I’m leaning toward the Wfco but still cogitating on it.
The battery location was perplexing me as I didn’t see it (may be missing)or wires or any venting on my in person inspection. Going to revisit that issue.
I would think I need to move the battery to the tongue as a battery inside the cabin just sounds bad and I would assume not code now?
I’ll keep,y’all posted with updates and photos👍
Thanks for all the quick responses!
Patrick

[Carl V]

A battery inside is fine as long as it's in a sealed box with a vent outside. That's how mine is in my Trillium 5500.
Another option is to use an AGM battery, they are more expensive but can be safely installed inside unvented.

[Joe MacDonald]

What Carl said, I used a group 31 AGM from Costco, and the pd4135, i took reliability over matching size, remember a 4135 still draws less than 10 amps on the AC connection, which means no problems on a standard 15 amp house plug.
Joe

[Carl V]

The 4135 is rated for 30A service, but can be used as a 15A unit by installing a 15A main breaker instead of a 30A.
My 4135 is installed to provide 30A service (trailer is a Trillium 5500), note this 30A upgrade also requires the replacement of the original 15A power cord with a 30A-rated cord.
I confirm the excellent customer service at Progressive Dynamics. I bought my unit from an online Canadian RV part store. I though the cooling fan on my converter was running pretty fast even with little DC demand. I sent an email to PD asking if this was normal. Their answer: it was not, and they sent me a new converter unit right away, totally free. They didn't even ask me to return the original unit (I guess it wasn't worth the shipping costs from Canada). All is good since (5 seasons later).
I don't know if other brands of converters are the same, but note also that the 4135 doesn't come with any breakers or fuses, and you have to provide your own negative (ground) bus bar. Also the installation instructions are not the clearest, but there are numerous posts on PD converter installations you can search for, and feel free to ask any questions you may have.

[Joe MacDonald]

my bad, I had an existing PD breaker/fuse panel that I re-used, and in fact it was the PD9145 I used (which is just the dc converter portion), and I tied it into my old one to make it look original, and no new holes anywhere
Joe

[ROBERT ONEILL]

There are not many 4500 trilliums with front baths. Our 1980 Trillium 4500 with front toilet and lavatory has the battery mounted on the tongue in front of the dual propane tanks. We are the second owner and there are no indication that the battery was ever mounted inside. No place for it to vent, no holes in the floor or wires that could have been hooked to the battery if mounted on the inside. On the front inside wall there are some vinyl pouches from the factory attached with snaps and the one on the right when unsnapped has a 4" diameter hole with access to the wires going out of the front for the 7 pole trailer connector and all the connections on the wires there are the same connectors and do not appear to have ever been modified.

I have since made a custom battery box to use a Trojan T1275 12 volt 150 amp hour Deep-Cycle Flooded/Wet Lead-Acid Battery and a single 305 watt commercial solar panel on the roof and Morningstar 4 MPPT charge controller. Battery never needs any other method of charging as the power usage is low even with all the lights on inside for several hours. We have added a 2 tube fluorescent light above the counter and computer fan on the furnace to help move the heated air around. We are boondockers and have only stayed in a campground with electrical for about 5 nights since we bought it in 2005. It has traveled with us over 60,000 miles cross from California to Michigan and into Canada several times.

[Patrick G.]

Thanks Robert! When i finally get down to the trailer I think I’ll find what you are describing.. but the battery just isn’t on the tongue anymore. Most likely I will be installing a small plate on the tongue to bolt down the battery box but we’ll see! The adventure continues
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[Patrick G.]

First, thanks for all the input.
So getting ready to install the Progressive Dynamics PD4135. (Chose it over the WFCO 8725 since the PD 4135 was Lithium ready in case an upgrade was done).
3 questions.. I actually think I saw this discussion on the board but couldn’t find it.
1) So this is a 15 amp shore power trailer as the shore plug indicates. (Having trouble uploading photos)
I am planning then to install a 15 amp main with 15amp down stream breakers to feed a couple 120 plugs and the dc board. With a 15 Amp breaker feeding my DC board I am guessing in need 15 amp or less in each slot depending upon what the draw of the item will be.

2) if I upgrade to a 30 amp shore plug then I assume I can increase to 30 amp main then 15 amp downstream breakers? Not sure yet what my inverter requires.
3) for my DC fuses how much amperage above the rated draw should I pick for the fuse? Or should I get as close as possible. For instance if my phone charger draws 2 amps is that my fuse size? Is there an accepted value for overage before damage occurs?
Please correct and input if I’m off base here.
Thanks!
Patrick

[David Tilston]

Originally Posted by Patrick G.

3) for my DC fuses how much amperage above the rated draw should I pick for the fuse? Or should I get as close as possible. For instance if my phone charger draws 2 amps is that my fuse size? Is there an accepted value for overage before damage occurs?

Patrick, Fuses and breakers only protect the wire.

If you use #14 wire, then a 15 A fuse is appropriate. If you use #12, then a 20 A fuse is correct. If your trailer has a 15 A power inlet, it should be wired with #14 wire and a 15 A fuse, or breaker. Branch circuits can use breakers or fuses up to the rating of the main breaker.

Using a smaller fuse than wire requires is not a problem, but why?

It has nothing to do with the device connected, other than if the device draws more current than the wire can handle, the fuse or breaker should pop.

[Patrick G.]

Thanks, David!

[Joe MacDonald]

All good questions
1) yes, at a later date you could upsize the main breaker and cordset to 30 amp , downstream breakers would stay the same
2) although the minimum wire size you should use is #14awg (rated at 15a) , I usually keep the fuse close to the draw of the device. In ac wiring usually 125%, unless starting a motor.
I use the same rule for DC , and have never burnt any wires.
3) the inverter would be on the DC side , be careful if/when connecting it to the trailer ac side

Joe

[Patrick G.]

Hey folks! It’s been a while but I finally got time to post this. Thanks for all the advice!! This is my sister in laws camper that she’s rehabbing for a big trip.. I offered to update the electrical. I found a schematic which was close but the previous owner did some funky wiring so I had to waste time with that. That being said.
I pulled the old distribution panel out and installed a new Progressive Dynamics 4135kv. Went with it since it was lithium ready if I want that later. Also had to install new battery platform on the tongue (which I fabricated with 1/8” steel and angle iron lips). New battery box. New deep cycle battery and added cut off switch. Installed a AiLi Voltmeter Ammeter Voltage Current Meter From Amazon (AiLi Voltmeter Ammeter Voltage Current Meter Voltmeter Ammeter 100V 350A Caravan RV Motorhome 999 AH). Added a separate 15 amp leg for the AC she wanted. The vent above the panel was a 3” pvc drain which fit the existing vent hole. It all works!😂👍I If y’all have questions let me know! Sorry about the photo rotation🤔🤨! Lock your screen!
Patrick

[Patrick G.]

Addendum:
one of my questions was why there did not seem to be a place for a battery. Best I could figure the previous owner just connected to his vehicle since the battery was not inside nor was there a place for it on the tongue. Or he just connected to a portable battery.
The wires for the battery were there at the front harness. I found a wiring access port inside in the front corner but there was never a vent there. The wiring was in pretty good shape!
The volt/amp meter was installed just as you come in the door on the right side wall partition.
Patrick

[Joe MacDonald]

My trillium had an unventilated spot under the front bench on the driver's side, it didn't even have a converter, I just used a 12v battery charger
Joe

[Mark in Vancouver]

Yeah, looks familiar. I just completed the exact same converter install. I'm amazed how little I can accomplish in a day. It took me 5 days to wire up the trailer and my truck with ebrakes, controllers, isolators, AC and DC circuits, fishing wires, wire loom, trying to solder everything I could. My biggest problem was trying to splice into 8 AWG wires in the harness to run to the trailer battery. I didn't have anything hot enough and had to resort to a small torch to get the solder to flow. Not beautiful and I'm sure there was a better way like using an external box with terminals. May have to update it later. I could wire a house the time it took me to do this job! Mine seems to be working fine, but I haven't got the 30 amp cord yet to plug into my twist lock receptacle. The instructions were not the best. Did you use your AC green ground bus bar for your DC grounds or did you use an external DC ground bus bar? There seemed to be a mixture of opinions online, but I suppose the green bar would be fine as you would normally ground both AC and DC circuits to the frame anyway. I didn't ground the frame and just ran 2 wires to everything so that my ground connections never corroded in future. I just used an external grounding bus bar. Apparently that Acid/lithium battery switch solder isn't great and sometimes gives way. Mine seems fine so far. Would have been nice to have a + and - terminal inside to easily wire a voltmeter.

[Patrick G.]

Mark, you are spot on! I did use the ground bar for all my grounds at the controller since there was a frame ground there already. At my wiring harness at the tongue I actually had a negative which apparently ran back to the controller. So the battery is grounded to the frame albeit a long route. It was interesting in that the ground from the trailer plug was not grounded when she got the trailer so the trailer so prior to this project the trailer was grounded to frame but then the ground connection was actually happening through the trailer hitch!���� when I pointed that out she said the lights always seemed to work when she checked them. I told her that most likely as the trailer was moving and jostling they may have been blinking. That’s fixed now!
I used crimped fittings on my wires. I like to solder them too. I crimp them use a propane pen to heat up the fitting then the solder glows pretty well. All in all a fun project, she’s got a long way to go on the rotten floor etc.! My part is done! Heading back to my Lance����