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10-12-2018, 04:33 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Name: bill
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
The Mountains of North Carolina
Posts: 4,137
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First Trillium Window Remove, Reseal and Reinstall
Progress continues on the 1977 Trillium 1300. Some set backs along the way of course!
So I decided to do my first window. Picked the curb side dinette window, figured it would be the easiest, so a good place to start. Prior owner had applied some silicon, so that added a little to the job.
Pretty quick (for me). Key was the inside wood looked brand new! That was a pleasant surprise!
Acetone did a good job on removing the silicone. Other lesson learned was to remove the inside handle first (duh). I used butyl tape from Amazon and one inch #6 SS screws (eBay).
IMG_5539 by wrk101, on Flickr
IMG_5541 by wrk101, on Flickr
IMG_5544 by wrk101, on Flickr
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10-12-2018, 04:41 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Name: John
Trailer: 1979 Boler 1700
Michigan
Posts: 2,048
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Bill, looks like fun. Very good choice to do a side window first. And yes the wood looks great. Great job! I used a double layer of already thick 1/8" butyl. Probably overkill.
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10-12-2018, 04:52 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Name: bill
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
The Mountains of North Carolina
Posts: 4,137
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More pics when I get home.
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10-12-2018, 06:11 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Name: bill
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
The Mountains of North Carolina
Posts: 4,137
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More pictures:
IMG_5545 by wrk101, on Flickr
IMG_5546 by wrk101, on Flickr
IMG_5548 by wrk101, on Flickr
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10-13-2018, 08:18 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Name: mensie
Trailer: Boler
Alberta
Posts: 100
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Looks good, I too removed all the windows, the wood on the front and back window was all rotten so I cut all new pieces and I used pressure treated 3/4 inch ply wood which I still had a good chunk of. It is actually a pretty easy job to fix all that.
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10-13-2018, 10:24 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Name: bill
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
The Mountains of North Carolina
Posts: 4,137
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Yes, I figure the front and then the back are the two worst. I'll tackle the rear next.
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10-14-2018, 11:11 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Name: Steve
Trailer: 1979 Boler1700
Maple Ridge, B.C.
Posts: 383
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I resealed all the windows on our '79 boler. I was reading that some still had leaking after resealing so I decided to use a double layer of butyl. Also clean any weep holes and if you decide to tint any of your windows, it's easier to do when the windows are out and laying flat.
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10-14-2018, 11:49 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Name: bill
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
The Mountains of North Carolina
Posts: 4,137
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Working on the third window right now, but I have to wait for more supplies. Rear window had one rotten wood piece on the side. Otherwise OK.
Front window rock guard only had butyl tape across the top and it was rock hard (cracked in my hands). No butyl on rock guard sides at all. If you haven’t checked your windows on an old Trillium I’d start there first! Front and rear windows take 12 ft of butyl tape, double it up and it’s 24 ft. Add another 8 ft for rock guard and if you double it, 16 ft. Needless to say a 30 ft roll doesn’t go far!
I started with 3/4 inch wide roll, my next order is 1 inch wide. Figure window flanges are 7/8 wide so 1 inch is better. Need to find my needle nose vise grips!
Some screws will not come out so it’s vise grip time. Need t
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10-16-2018, 05:00 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Name: bill
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
The Mountains of North Carolina
Posts: 4,137
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On to window #3, the front window (with rock guard/awning):
This one is tougher. The bottom driver side wood piece was badly rotted, as was the vertical wood piece on that side. Looks like it had been leaking for a long time!
I'm also concerned about the cracks around the screw holes, almost all across the top. Oddly, the awning only had butyl tape on the top, neither side had anything under the awning framing. Really surprised more wasn't rotten. I am going to check to see if the cracks go through the fiberglass, that could slow down the repair work for sure.
So far, one side piece on the rear window had some rot, and the lower corner of the front and one side had rot. Otherwise, everything has been good. Just got my second order of butyl tape from Amazon.
My other question is what order to reattach the ensolite on to replaced wood braces. On the rear window, I attached the ensolite first, then reinstalled the window. Frankly, that didn't turn out so hot....
1977 Trillium Frt Window by wrk101, on Flickr
The last six to eight inches of the wood looked like this:
1977 Trillium Frt Window by wrk101, on Flickr
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10-16-2018, 06:34 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
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Are you taking them out because they leak?
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10-16-2018, 06:57 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Name: bill
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
The Mountains of North Carolina
Posts: 4,137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles
Are you taking them out because they leak?
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Because the butyl tape seals around the windows are very likely 41 years old. And so far, two of the three had at least part of the framing rotted out, so clearly some leaking has occurred.
Trailer had been sitting in a garage for at least the last 15 years. Former owner never towed it.
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10-16-2018, 07:16 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrifty bill
Because the butyl tape seals around the windows are very likely 41 years old. And so far, two of the three had at least part of the framing rotted out, so clearly some leaking has occurred.
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Interesting...thanks. I asked b/c long observation has led me to the belief that the rot in the plywood is caused by condensation from the interior of the trailer and not by outside intrusion. My Trillium's been exposed to a lot of rain etc in the more than ten years and thousands of miles I've owned/towed it and the only place it's ever leaked was from the belly band and the vent, neither one of which have any plywood framing. (And both of which I'm going to properly repair this winter FINALLY lol). And from what I see when drilling into the plywood surrounds for hardware etc there's plenty of soft wood in there but the original butyl seals seem to be continuing to prevent the intrusion of outside moisture.
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10-17-2018, 07:28 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Name: bill
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
The Mountains of North Carolina
Posts: 4,137
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I doubt the plywood rot has anything to do with internal condensation as all the rot in my situation has been localized. One window it was just in one corner, one was on the side only, etc. In addition, the wood is well covered by ensolite on the inside.
I wouldn't expect window leaks to be visible, unless you open up the gaucho or dinette benches and look for water in the pontoons.
Soft wood = rot; rot = exposed to water, water = leaks. In addition, screws will show decay. If half the threads are gone, its been exposed to water for a long time = leaks. Some screws were perfect, others didn't have a single thread left. Once I removed screws, I knew where I was going to find problems.
BTW, in one area, the butyl tape was rock hard and I could easily break it in half. Most of the butyl tape was fine. On the sides of the rock guard support, there was zero butyl tape and no signs that it ever had tape. That would leave those screw holes ready to leak.
The piece of plywood across the bottom of the front window, 80% of it was pristine, like new. The other 20% was totally, completely rotted. What I have in my hand is just a small sample.
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10-18-2018, 06:30 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Name: bill
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
The Mountains of North Carolina
Posts: 4,137
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Some random corroded window screws. Screws at the end of each row are in original shape to show the difference.
1977 Trillium Rebuild by wrk101, on Flickr
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10-19-2018, 09:17 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Name: bill
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
The Mountains of North Carolina
Posts: 4,137
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Finished the four big windows (the one in the kitchen is riveted in place, I'll do that later, and I will consider what if anything to do with the one in the door).
Some stats/learnings:
The front and rear windows really needed it. On the front, I replaced two of the wood frame pieces (one side and the bottom), and had to beef up screw holes on the third (toothpicks and hot melt glue). The rear had one bad side frame piece.
Screw condition tells the story. If the screws all come out without any loss of threads, then the wood is likely fine. If the screws show rust, then the wood is probably bad.
Much of the old butyl tape was hard, not much life left in it. I don't know if it dries out over time, but that is how it appeared. After all, it was probably 41 years old.
Regluing the ensolite was a mistake, hard to get it wrinkle free on the re-glue. Also had to jam the ensolite back into the window frame, putty knife and screw driver did the trick. I probably should have just tucked the ensolite back in and skipped the glue. I'll think about that later.
Rock guard sides had no butyl tape at all. Odd. No wonder it leaked.
Next project is to get the brake, tail lights, and side marker lights working.
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10-20-2018, 04:39 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Trailer: Trillium 2010
Posts: 5,185
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It would appear that water infiltration occured through the screw holes rather than through the frame edge. Dissimilar metals? Galvanic action, temperature expansion, or perhaps just lack of sealant under the heads? Newer windows use an internal clamping ring which eliminates the external screws. I assumed it was just aesthetics. Obviously not. I wonder if a dab of caulk under each screw head would help?
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10-20-2018, 04:53 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1982 Fiber Stream and 2001 Casita Spirit Deluxe (I'm down to 2!)
Posts: 1,989
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First Trillium Window Remove, Reseal and Reinstall
The seal you are calling Butyl does not look like Butyl to me at all but just the grey mastic caulk popular back in the day?
Actual Butyl is so much more pliable and sticky that it is insane!
I made sure to use actual Butyl Rubber when resealing mine both times.
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10-20-2018, 07:05 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Name: John
Trailer: 1979 Boler 1700
Michigan
Posts: 2,048
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Ed Harris, if you look at IMG 5548, looks like butyl tape to me.
I agree that butyl tape at room temp or higher is very sticky and extremely stretchy, like bubble gum.
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10-20-2018, 07:48 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz
It would appear that water infiltration occured through the screw holes rather than through the frame edge. Dissimilar metals? Galvanic action, temperature expansion, or perhaps just lack of sealant under the heads? Newer windows use an internal clamping ring which eliminates the external screws. I assumed it was just aesthetics. Obviously not. I wonder if a dab of caulk under each screw head would help?
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Good point Raz, as those screws deteriorate they likely leave enough space for water to intrude. Also, per galvanic action: it occurs to me to wonder why they didn't just use aluminum rivets to attach the (aluminum) windows in the first place. The fiberglass is thick enough to grab well and the wood seems to me to serve the sole purpose of providing something to set those screws into-?
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