Lil Snoozy has closed shop

[Dmitry]

The miraculously-fast revival of Lil Snoozy and its reincarnation into Snoozy II (was there a Chapter 7 filing, and did those who gave their checks to Mr. Mickle receive at least some money back?) gave me hope of looking into ordering one. The communication with the new manager (a friendly person, and enthusiastic!) has produced a build sheet, and the new price is about $35,000, considering various options. The new company also requires a $10,000 down payment, same as the deceased Lil Snoozy did, and kept. This gives me some pause; granted, this is not a unique request. For instance, a highly-regarded teardrop maker Camp-Inn requires a 30% down payment, but the nature of their work is option-laden, where almost every one of their trailers is somewhat unique. Whereas here it's not the case. What are your thoughts?

[Iowa Dave]

I would definitely not advance them $10,000. I would insist on an escrow account held by a third party that they could not access unless you were present upon delivery with a guaranteed time of completion or you get your money back. Upon completion the item is to your satisfaction. It’s the golden rule. The man with the gold rules. If they don’t like the deal, don’t walk away, run. Enough people get screwed every day, make sure you’re not one of them. Sounds harsh but think about what happened to all those last folks, lives changed, hopes dashed and all they had was an empty money bag. Didn’t even get a kiss.
Iowa Dave

[thrifty bill]

It’s not only losing your money but several have not gotten their trailer in the time frame it was promised. Not talking about Snoozy here. It depends what $10,000 means to your family. I would never do it.

[JoelInTexas]

The financial health of an RV manufacturer tends to be inversely proportional to the size of the deposit it requires.

FWIW, Casita requires a $2000 deposit.

[MJo]

2 years ago, 2020, Scamp asked for a deposit of $500.

[jgilliam1955]

Originally Posted by Dmitry

The miraculously-fast revival of Lil Snoozy and its reincarnation into Snoozy II (was there a Chapter 7 filing, and did those who gave their checks to Mr. Mickle receive at least some money back?) gave me hope of looking into ordering one. The communication with the new manager (a friendly person, and enthusiastic!) has produced a build sheet, and the new price is about $35,000, considering various options. The new company also requires a $10,000 down payment, same as the deceased Lil Snoozy did, and kept. This gives me some pause; granted, this is not a unique request. For instance, a highly-regarded teardrop maker Camp-Inn requires a 30% down payment, but the nature of their work is option-laden, where almost every one of their trailers is somewhat unique. Whereas here it's not the case. What are your thoughts?

Look at other fiberglass campers' required deposits & if they can be refunded. I would not buy from a small company like this again. We lost our $10,000 after waiting over a year for our Snoozy to be built. We were told our Snoozy would start to be built in March & 3 days later found out on the forum someone drove by Snoozy & they were closed. We never saw a penny!

Look at Casita, Scamp, Bigfoot, Escape, Oliver & Northern Lite & others.

Three days later we ordered a 2019 CASITA & put a down refundable payment $2000. We had our CASITA in one month.

What we learned about having a camper with propane & electricity, we would never have an all-electric camper. The Fridge runs on gas, 12 volts & 120 volts. It is nice to cook when you are at a rest stop. I learned it is better to have something & not use it than to need something & not have it when it comes to camping.

The bottom line is we risked $10,000 and lost. It is too much money.
Some people stated the money they lost have prevented them from buying a camper for years.

[redbarron55]

In my opinion Lil Snoozy has too many problems with things like fiberglass cracking at the door etc.
If it were me I would buy a used trailer where the initial owner tool the majority of the depreciation and risk.
There are some nice trailers available for just a little more than that down payment.
Not only that but they are a proven item with known problems and fixes.
There is a reason that Lil Snoozy had had business issues and extreme quality control was not one of them.
The next question is with Lil Snoozy II what is the relationship to the old owners? What happened in bankruptcy and how were the previous customers treated and do the original owners have an interest in the new company?
A fair number of customers were caught up in the failure(s?).
Your choice, but do your research and make sure that the fiberglass cracking at the door has been addressed. That shows a weakness in the frame and in the fiberglass.
Good luck with your search.

[vintageracer]

RUN FORREST RUN!!!

ANY business in any industry that requires you to PAY THEM anymore than $500 for the privilege of doing business with them is in most instances underfunded and doomed to fail.

This is especially true with work on your home or automobile as the vendor already has recourse if you do not pay and can file a "Mechanics Lien" on your home or automobile.

Of course if you are that Hell Bent to do business with those NICE PEOPLE you git what deserve whatever that ends up being!

[ShelbyM]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

In my opinion Lil Snoozy has too many problems with things like fiberglass cracking at the door etc.
If it were me I would buy a used trailer where the initial owner tool the majority of the depreciation and risk.
There are some nice trailers available for just a little more than that down payment.
Not only that but they are a proven item with known problems and fixes.
There is a reason that Lil Snoozy had had business issues and extreme quality control was not one of them.
The next question is with Lil Snoozy II what is the relationship to the old owners? What happened in bankruptcy and how were the previous customers treated and do the original owners have an interest in the new company?
A fair number of customers were caught up in the failure(s?).
Your choice, but do your research and make sure that the fiberglass cracking at the door has been addressed. That shows a weakness in the frame and in the fiberglass.
Good luck with your search.

This would be interesting to know. Seems cozy and convenient the way it worked out. Dozens of customers were stiffed. How did the current owner end up with all the molds, etc, ready to crank up production, while the folks who were actually out $ got nothing?

[jerrybob]

Our local pizza joint recently declared bankruptcy.......apparently they ran out of dough. Glad I didn't order that sausage with extra mushrooms in advance.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

This would be interesting to know. Seems cozy and convenient the way it worked out. Dozens of customers were stiffed. How did the current owner end up with all the molds, etc, ready to crank up production, while the folks who were actually out $ got nothing?

If I’m not mistaken, the new owner is a fiberglass business (pools, maybe?) that supplied the shells, which means they probably own the molds.

It is possible they were also out money for unpaid invoices. If that’s the case, most bankruptcy laws give suppliers a higher priority in the settlement than retail buyers. The relationship between the two businesses was necessarily pretty close, though, and it’s likely they used their position advantageously, if not illegally.

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

In my opinion Lil Snoozy has too many problems with things like fiberglass cracking at the door etc.
If it were me I would buy a used trailer where the initial owner tool the majority of the depreciation and risk..

Agree with much of what you said but not this. Sellers of five year old Casitas, Escapes and Scamps are not taking any depreciation. Many are selling used for as much or more than they originally cost. It’s true on ten year old FG trailers too. .

[Jann Todd]

Originally Posted by Dmitry

The miraculously-fast revival of Lil Snoozy and its reincarnation into Snoozy II (was there a Chapter 7 filing, and did those who gave their checks to Mr. Mickle receive at least some money back?) gave me hope of looking into ordering one. The communication with the new manager (a friendly person, and enthusiastic!) has produced a build sheet, and the new price is about $35,000, considering various options. The new company also requires a $10,000 down payment, same as the deceased Lil Snoozy did, and kept. This gives me some pause; granted, this is not a unique request. For instance, a highly-regarded teardrop maker Camp-Inn requires a 30% down payment, but the nature of their work is option-laden, where almost every one of their trailers is somewhat unique. Whereas here it's not the case. What are your thoughts?

Hang up the phone and run unless you want to throw away $10,000. Sounds very bad to me. Casita is a well known and substantial company and didn't require that much down. Sounds like the owner wants to get rich and leave.

[ShelbyM]

Originally Posted by Jann Todd

Sounds like the owner wants to get rich and leave.

Well heck, that worked for them the first time....

[jgilliam1955]

I want to add they are using the $10K to build the trailer before yours. They are operating on a shoestring budget. If something happens to the economy, they could go under.

[redbarron55]

Originally Posted by jgilliam1955

I want to add they are using the $10K to build the trailer before yours. They are operating on a shoestring budget. If something happens to the economy, they could go under.

Lots of contractors and builders draw on the next job to pay for the current one (or even deeper down) This is almost always a prescription for failure in any downturn. The last customers lose out and there is nothing in the till and no assets to claim.

As I recall the bankruptcy left a lot of prepaid customers with no recourse.
Perhaps if Snoozy had an arrangement with a bank where the funds would be held in escrow and the bank loans funds knowing that there are deposits.

Failing to have a way to insure that you get what you have paid for I would stay away from what looks like a Cozy Snoozy setup to me.

[redbarron55]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

Agree with much of what you said but not this. Sellers of five year old Casitas, Escapes and Scamps are not taking any depreciation. Many are selling used for as much or more than they originally cost. It’s true on ten year old FG trailers too. .

But are they less than a new one?

[oldwave]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

This would be interesting to know. Seems cozy and convenient the way it worked out. Dozens of customers were stiffed. How did the current owner end up with all the molds, etc, ready to crank up production, while the folks who were actually out $ got nothing?

Like the old Woody Guthrie Song: "Some men rob you with a 6 gun, but more with a fountain pen"

[jgilliam1955]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

But are they less than a new one?

It depends on what year they are. Go to the fiberglass seller section.
If people do not want to wait over a year for a camper, the price will be close to what people paid for their camper when new.
There are stories where the used campers sold in a day or less.
I own a 2019 Casita & could sell mine for the same price I paid for it.

[Dmitry]

Originally Posted by jgilliam1955

I want to add they are using the $10K to build the trailer before yours. They are operating on a shoestring budget. If something happens to the economy, they could go under.

I read your story on the preceding pages. It does sound like a pyramid scheme to a degree, but many manufacturers are requesting a rather sizable deposit (some state that it’s non-refundable); maybe even more are asking for a 5 figure deposit than those that don’t…this appears to be a normal business practice today. We’re you able to recoup some of the $10,000, or wrote it off your taxes?

I wouldn’t call the reincarnation of the Lil Snoozy into Snoozy II anything short of a miracle. One day the shop is shuttered, and in six months they are back in the game, perhaps with some of the previous actors taking over.